Govt baffled over DRDO chief's claim on missile shield

[p2prada]

And its reentry speed is 16000kph or 4.4km/s which shows you just how fast it slows down.

Minuteman III Missile Launch & Re Entry- California to Kwajalein Atoll - YouTube

I have seen a video of the Arjun tank where it is better than any other tank in the world. It is from an actual news program.

Since when has youtube become a source and since when has youtube become more important than fas.org?

People are talking about a Mach 30 Trident II nowadays.

 

[Armand2REP]

I have seen a video of the Arjun tank where it is better than any other tank in the world. It is from an actual news program.

Since when has youtube become a source and since when has youtube become more important than fas.org?

The video was made by USAF Space Command... far better source than fas.org.

People are talking about a Mach 30 Trident II nowadays.

It was meant to show you how something going 9km/s will slow by half coming into reentry. Of course you don't want to pay attention to facts.

 

[p2prada]

ASSET flew as fast as an Minuteman ICBM, it just flew at a lower trajectory. The only important factor here is speed, not apogee height which you assume a higher apogee increases reentry speed. Once the thrust is turned off it doesn't increase speed... it gets slower once it starts hitting friction of the atmosphere.

Haha! ASSET actually flew at 6Km/s which makes it superior to Minuteman if we use your logic.

You can't compare ASSET to anything simply because it was used for particular tests. We don't know at what angles the reentry was done and at what horizontal speeds too.

My point is to achieve test targets the ASSET managed 4-6Km/s while reaching an apogee of 50-75Km, so why can't Prithvi achieve the same even after reaching an apogee of 120Km?

BMD tests happen at high altitudes. In this case the warhead was destroyed at a height of 48Km, so the warhead did not reach the denser lower atmosphere where speed decreases due to air resistance. You can say the warhead was destroyed at it's peak speeds.

 

[Armand2REP]

My point is to achieve test targets the ASSET managed 4-6Km/s while reaching an apogee of 50-75Km, so why can't Prithvi achieve the same even after reaching an apogee of 120Km?

Haha! Because it doesn't reach Mach 25!!!! ASSET wasn't designed for range but to test reentry speeds.

 

[p2prada]

The video was made by USAF Space Command... far better source than fas.org.

Not necessary. Arjun's mobility tests for public consumption was done by a magazine called Autocar India. The Minuteman video could have been made by people from civil establishments like Discovery or History Channel.

The narrator could have very well been an actor from Whose Line is it Anyway?

It was meant to show you how something going 9km/s will slow by half coming into reentry. Of course you don't want to pay attention to facts.

Like I said in the post above. The speed during impact on the ground won't matter if the warhead is engaged at a height of 50-80Km where it's speed is at it's peak before hitting the atmosphere. It is called exo-atmospheric interception and the interceptor is categorized as an exo-atmospheric interceptor.

Or are you suggesting the PAD will engage the warhead after the warhead hits the surface at half the peak speed?

You are no longer making sense and being your stubborn self again.

Facts are all great as long as they make sense during the discussion.

 

[p2prada]

ASSET wasn't designed for range but to test reentry speeds.

Exactly. That's why a 350Km range, 50 Km altitude Dhanush(Prithvi III) was modified to imitate an IRBM while reaching an altitude of 120Km and range of 70Km. We needed high reentry speed to simulate an IRBM and thus was achieved by increasing the apogee of the missile.

You finally understand.

 

[Armand2REP]

I understand that a Mach 4-5 missile only going 70km is not going to reach IRBM speeds... it reaches Scud speed.

 

[sayareakd]

well known defence technology analyst in support of defence analyst Joshi.

TRISHUL: The Truth, Only If Revealed, Shall Set You Free

he must be reading DFI thread.

 

[Bhadra]

Faking and cheating could have grave consequences. Mr Saraswat must know that !!

 

[p2prada]

I understand that a Mach 4-5 missile only going 70km is not going to reach IRBM speeds... it reaches Scud speed.

Well, I can't explain anymore.

F-15s probably reach 27Km on a regular basis.

 

[Sridhar]

After the attacker missile reached its apogee of 110 km, the command for the interceptor, AAD-02, to lift off was given. The interceptor erupted into life five minutes after the attacker lifted off. The interceptor was equipped with inertial navigation, control and guidance systems. More importantly, it had on board a radio-frequency seeker. Acting as the "eye" of the interceptor, the seeker calculated the velocity, position and direction of the "enemy" missile. The seeker conveyed all this information to the computers on board the interceptor, and the computers instructed the interceptor to manoeuvre itself towards the target. And before one had time to clap, the AAD-02 homed in on the target and made a direct hit at an altitude of 15 km. The attacker was shot down during the terminal stage of its flight. The interception took place when the target missile was in free fall at a speed of about Mach 3 (that is, three times the speed of sound) and the interceptor was travelling at more than Mach 4.

The target missile was a modified, single-stage Prithvi, fuelled by liquid propellants. To suit the requirements of this mission, the control system of Prithvi was modified so that it could reach an altitude of more than 100 km. The modified Prithvi was 11 metres tall and weighed five tonnes. Its diameter was 1 m. Its launch, in this instance, was carried out in an independent manner by the Army, which already has Prithvi-I and Prithvi-II missiles

Smashing hit

 

[Armand2REP]

The interception took place when the target missile was in free fall at a speed of about Mach 3

Sounds about right... that doesn't even reach speeds of the Black Arrow mimicking a Scud B.

 

[p2prada]

^^^^

Sridhar that is wrong information.

On December 06, 2007 the AAD test had the target missile free falling from 50Km, not 110Km.

The author has clubbed the December 2007 test with the November 2006 test where the apogee was 120Km.

 

[sayareakd]

what is the speed of Pakistan missile?

 

[p2prada]

Their Shaheen II should be where Agni II is. So, you can say the terminal velocity is 3-4Km/s.

 

[p2prada]

The Phase I is aimed to saturating the capability of Gauri I/Shaheen I or Agni I range missiles.

That's why only Delhi and Mumbai are targeted at receiving this BMD as these cities are within range of these SRBMs/MRBMs. AAD's interception speed is Mach 4-5 at 15Km which fits the capability of these missiles.

The Phase II is aimed at missiles upto 5000Km, which means capability against Agni II or Shaheen II/Gauri II. AAD-2 is aimed to have speeds of Mach 8-9 which equates to stopping a 3-4Km/s missile at 15Km altitude, where the atmosphere has slowed it down to lesser speeds. So, this BMD is aimed for other cities like Kolkata, Chennai, Bangalore and Hyderabad.

Let's not forget I am only talking about AAD. PAD capability has not been revealed as much. While they were a little open with AAD's performance figures, they were quite secretive with PAD's performance. Interception speed for PAD is obviously greater than AAD.

AAD has a lot of equivalents around the world, like the Patriot, Arrow, S-300/400 and Aster Block 2. The Chinese HQ-9 is a S-300 rip off and does the same as AAD. All are highly maneuverable missiles and can even engage aircraft.

PAD has no equivalent as of today. But it does have competitors in superior systems like THAAD, Aegis(SM-3 missile) and the Chinese KKV. PDV is supposed to match THAAD or Aegis in capability.

 

[Apollyon]

^^ and only the engagement altitude is being mentioned not the maximum range of the interceptors ...

PDV or PAD is for exo-atmospheric engagement and AAD is for endo-atmospheric interception and will be able to engage SRBM/MRBM while the Phase-II interceptors, AD-1 and AD-2 which speed of Mach 8-9 will be in the league of THAAD and Arrow-3.
Problem is in the first phase we have only mastered the endo-atmospheric interception with AAD while PAD (liquid-fulled) is no more than a Tech Demonstrator which was to be replaced by PDV.

3) Kill vehicles : Though India tested a Kinetic Kill vehicle during the last AAD test, just one of the six tests so far have been KKV, the others being proximity detonation. The lone Chinese test has been on a Kinetic Kill Vehicle. However again, it is easier to smash into a slow moving object than a much faster moving one (midcourse versus terminal)

Re: Comparison of BMD capabilities of India and China


we tested a KKV ...

 

[Apollyon]

VKS: There are a few essential parameters in intercepting satellites. You should have the ability to track an orbiting satellite in space, launch a missile towards it and finally have a kill vehicle that actually homes in to physically destroy it.
We have a Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR) used in the Ballistic Missile Defence Programme that has a range of over 600 km. We will increase the range to 1,400 km allowing us to track satellites in orbit.
It is far more difficult to intercept ballistic missiles than it is to intercept satellites. Satellites follow a predictive path. Once you track a satellite, you will know its path.
In the BMD project, we track and intercept a 0.1 square meter target over 1,000 km away. A satellite is ten times larger-over 1 meter wide.
We have the communication systems in place, again developed for the BMD project. The first-stage booster developed for the Agni-V can inject a warhead 600 km into space. We also have a kill vehicle developed for the BMD project. The kill vehicle actually homes in onto an incoming missile. We have the Infra-Red and Radar frequency seekers on the kill vehicle that accurately guide it to its target.
At what phase of development is the BMD programme?


"India has all the building blocks for an anti-satellite capability" : India, News - India Today

 

[p2prada]

^^ and only the engagement altitude is being mentioned not the maximum range of the interceptors ...

The engagement ranges are known. AAD is meant for ranges upto 30Km while PAD is meant for targets from 50-80Km. PAD has been tested twice. Once at 48Km and the other at 75Km.

we tested a KKV ...

Yeah. KKV means a Kinetic Kill Vehicle. It is a generic term and can apply to many types of missiles which can perform Hit To Kill.

The Chinese BMD test was referred to as KKV because they used a missile which can hit to kill. Kinetic kill would mean the kinetic energy off the missile is used to disintegrate the incoming warhead.

"India has all the building blocks for an anti-satellite capability" : India, News - India Today

In the BMD project, we track and intercept a 0.1 square meter target over 1,000 km away. A satellite is ten times larger-over 1 meter wide.

The Russians have been claiming such capability against American stealth fighters since a long time. Their S-400 system is superior to the AAD system that we have developed. Infact the S-400(at Mach 12) is better than our planned AAD-2(Mach 8-9). However we are yet to see the actual AAD-2 and the current estimates are just that, estimates.

S-500 is a different beast, meant to engage missiles coming in at Mach 15 at 60Km altitude. It will be inducted even before we induct the AAD-2(S-400 equivalent).

 

[Apollyon]

I know KKV = Kinetic Kill Vehicle which are supposed to be lighter and even the Israelis are shifting towards KKV but i was surprised we tested a KKV which verifies the claim we have a A-SAT capability