Global Insights: China-India Strategic Relationship Marking Time

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Ray, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The over dependence on cheap Chinese products, to include heavy machinery would be paving a way for Chinese neo colonialism.

    It maybe noted that the article states - More than half of the PRC's imports consists of raw iron ore and other low-end commodities and raw materials, rather than high value-added goods such as processed steel.

    It is the Chinese way to ensure a slow dependence on China.

    While China cannot change Indians into vassals of China as they did not other non Han races who were slowly assimilated, the Chinese way of slowly converting people to their way of thinking should never be forgotten. It is subtle and unobtrusive and is projected as a 'win win' for those following their ways.

    An explanation that it is so is the simple allegory that China is actually a devious imperialist and colonialist country with cunnig ways to make people dependent on them.

    To believe that China is not a colonialist or an imperialist power would be a wrong premise. It may appear incongruous prima facie, but a look at their history would indicate that precisely the size of China today was but a legacy of colonial pursuit. The key 'magic wand' was to change the population brought under Chinese rule, by Chinese expansion and colonial pursuit was to do so 'by the Chinese way'. In short, destroy the captured peoples' culture, heritage, traditions, customs, languages and instead transplanting it with Han replicas. In addition, the Chinese employed humiliation on the captured people by calling them barbarians, wherein they found solace and respect into 'converting' to being Hans!!! I have at length explained in many of my posts and so recounting would be repetitious.

    However, for those interested, here is an interesting link on the Ancient Chinese Barbarians;
    Ancient Chinese Barbarians

    That said, it will be seen that while India is having a huge trade deficit with China and that too buying cheap and low end goods, China with stoic ensured that India does not get a headway into China with high end products and services which can queer her commanding economic leverage.

    It is interesting how the Chinese are touting a FTA with all due politeness and with the ulterior motive to destroy India's economic growth!!

    The Chinese chicanery is worth observing. While reaffirming its support for U.N. Security Council Resolution 1267, which imposes sanctions on individuals, companies, and other entities engaged in international terrorism, Wen praised Pakistan for its immense effort in the War of Terror. It short, it indicates China has no principles.

    In the strategic realm Wen gave little evidence of actually changing Chinese policies that challenge Indian sovereignty. These include Beijing's claims that the eastern Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh is an extension of Chinese-ruled Tibet; and the PRC's refusal to grant regular visas to Indian citizens of Kashmiri origin who travel to China.

    However, it appears that India's patience is wearing thin. India responded by refusing to include its usual recognition of the PRC's sovereignty over Tibet and Taiwan in the joint communiqué.

    Therefore, as it stands, there is little hope of an Sino Indian thaw.

    In this connection, the visit of the Russian President and signing of the huge defence deal is an indicator of India, resolve to identify the Chinese puzzle in concrete strategic terms, wherein, while keeping the Indo US strategic ties in place to ensure that the seas remain strategically sanitised, she also attempt to woo Russia into a partnership whereby China has little elbow room for manoeuvre in the neighbourhood, with Russia imposing her squeeze on the land mass. Hence, China from all ends remain 'boxed' and confined from any attempts at mischief.
     
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  3. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    My friend Ray:

    First, nobody can contain China, just like nobody can contain India. European countries once tried to contain newly born USA, what’s the result? Roman was collapsed from inside, so did Soviet Union. As long as China and India people keep dreaming about better future and work on it, they are unstoppable. You’ve been to Singapore before; you must experience the vital force behind Chinese culture. The real danger to undermine China and India’s development comes from within. We should keep a very sharp eye on how our government is running the country.

    Second, India is not vassal of China. Yes you have big trade deficit with China, so does the world! Few countries have trade surplus with China for now. Australia export way more iron ore to China than India; Indonesia export way more rubber material to China; Thailand exports way more rice to China; 27% of Korea’s export goes to China. Even Brazil and Argentina are heavily depending on exporting to China. There are many countries have higher dependence rate on China than India has. Did they claim being colony of Chinese? It’s funny a lot of Americans claim their country is owned by China, do you believe it? The world is flat and international trade has been spread to every corner of the world. China just happens to be the center of manufacturing for now. It can be changed. I wouldn’t be surprised if next decade India has big surplus with China.

    Third, you claim Han Chinese are imperialist and expansionist. If so, I would say every race is falling into this category. Do you think Russian is naturally inheriting such vast domain? Does USA deserve 50 states in 1787? How about British, they crossed ocean to occupy India for well over 100 years. At least Han Chinese didn’t do it to India. You should also check your own history find out if you are truly that innocent. Ancient China is surrounding by many states. There were constant wars and people are facing choice of “live or die”. Getting bigger and stronger is the only option to survive. It happened everywhere in the world.

    Like Premier Wen said, it will take generation for China and India to solve border issue. We should remain calm and restraint to deal with it. You thought India is victim, we thought China is victim too. These debates can go on and on and never ending. About Pakistan, Indian always thought China is using Pakistan to undermine India; How about you hosting Dailai Lama to undermine China since 1959? Yes, we all have good reasons. But we should not live in conspiracy and suspicious state like other Indian said. It won’t help. Get out of the door to understand each other because we didn’t kill each other’s mother.

    A lot of Chinese also have such conspiracy mentality. They often doubt intention of every action by outside world. But I think Chinese and Indian people should have growing confidence on their country, on themselves and on their future.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  4. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Could principally agree with most of the post, but giving refuge to a man and feeding an entire nation into a snake are at two very different proportions.

    Reasons ?? .... to do this ?? What hell of a reason could there be.
    What ? ........... buddy what are you trying to say, when did we kill anyone's mother by the way.
     
  5. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I mean we don't have hate that can not be forgotten.
     
  6. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Again, China is not using Pakistan to undermine India. Indo-Pakistan hate each other not because of China
     
  7. niharjhatn

    niharjhatn Regular Member

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    No? Yet simply allowing His Holiness the Dalia Lama to seek refuge in India is considered a move to "undermine" China - on another forum, a Chinese member even accused the GoI of working with the Dalai Lama to fund Tibetan terrorism!

    The fact remains that China are just not adopting a definite stance on Indo-Pak issues - condemning terrorism, but not using their influence in Pakistan to do anything about it.

    Honestly, I feel this is not the MAIN issue, but the fact that it is one of a complex myriad of issues that are pulling bilateral relations to a standstill. But it is definitely not comforting when Mr Wei doesn’t believe issues regarding borders etc. can be solved now, and instead must be thrust on “future generations”.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Kickof.

    You are entitled to your views.

    His Holiness the Dalai Lama has been given refuge as per the UN Conventions on Refugee. As per the understanding with India, HH the Dalai Lama has not been permitted to undertake anti Chinese activities from Indian soil. If it were not so, then India would not have stopped the CIA from using the Khamba rebels who were succeeding.

    True, most imperialist or colonial mindsets believed and practised expansionism. Lebebsraum some dubbed it to while embarking on the same quest. I am afraid, India would not quite come into that classification because even if there was this desire, history did not permit such an adventure. On the other hand, China had the opportunity.

    Why Russia collapsed is another long story. Why the Sun set on the British Empire that is another story. However, to believe that China is befriending Pakistan out of sheer camaraderie and love for humanity and not for geostrategic reasons, would be stretching the point a little too beyond the reality!

    Indians do not hate Pakistanis. The animosity, if any, is the act of war she undertook immediately after Partition to forcibly take Kashmir and that too, through subterfuge of using military regulars and in the guise of tribal!! Deceit at the word, 'Go'!
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  9. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The holy monk is not sitting there pray for the world peace. At least not in his early years before Nobel peace prize, there were thousands life lost because his holiness’s desire to liberate Tibet.

    Anyway, Just like you said, it’s just one problem for complex Indo-China relationship. I think the main problem here is mistrust between two nations resulting from China’s support to Pakistan and Chinese suspicion of India’s intention toward China.

    Many Indian friends here like to quote those articles claiming China is bad and evil. But most of those articles are coming from sources not friendly to China, which further enlarged the conspiracy theory Indian has about China. It’s not helpful and will further delay the progress of improvement of bilateral relationship that is beneficiary to both countries.
     
  10. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Being holy doesnt mean he is not entitled to live in peace and harmony in Tibet. He has every right to demand freedom\autonomy of Tibet. If he want he need to issue just one statement and whole Tibet will burn . Its his love for his own people that he is asking them to keep quite and protest through peaceful means . There are many groups of Tibetans who advocate armed struggle against occupation and are not able to do it only because dalai Lama is dead against it . All that poor man is aksing is limited autonomy and that too is not acceptable to CCP top brass. I see Tibet going to flames once Dalai lama dies.
    China should be thankful to India that we have not allowed armed or violent struggle of Tibetans . Instead they do Just opposite by Supporting terrorism of Pakistan .
     
  11. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    His holiness could stay in Tibet for the peaces of Tibetans instead of flee away. He did encourage restrains for Tibetans after he is awarded Nobel Prize. But before that he and his government are not that peaceful.

    Regarding India’s role on Tibetan exile government, I think its overall positive and Chinese government recognizes it. China seldom criticizes India on Tibetan issue.

    China’s support to Pakistan doesn’t mean China support terrorist against India. US supported Pakistan for long time and gave billions of dollars, why India n doesn’t claim they are support terrorist?
     

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