Gaza terrorists fired rockets on southern Israel

Discussion in 'West Asia & Africa' started by SajeevJino, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    Kassam Rocket Hits Ashkelon


    For the first time since Pillar of Defense, Gaza terrorists fired on southern Israel. One rocket hit the city of Ashkelon.


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    Gaza terrorists fired on southern Israel on Tuesday morning for the first time since the Pillar of Defense counter-terror operation in late 2012.

    One rocket hit the city of Ashkelon, but did not cause injury. A second rocket apparently hit an open field near the city.

    Residents said they had no warning of the impending strike.

    Defense experts say Gaza terrorists are apparently trying to show support with Arab rioters in Judea and Samaria. Riots broke out after the Palestinian Authority accused Israel of murdering a 30-year-old terrorist who died of a heart attack in Israeli custody.

    Rocket fire is a blatant violation of Hamas' agreement with Israel, which brought an end to Pillar of Defense.


    Kassam Rocket Hits Ashkelon - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News
     
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  3. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    I admire Israel for their guts and gritty determination. If India had even half of it, we would have had already become a superpower!

    Hope Israel quashes the Gaza & West Bank nut jobs completely!

     
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  4. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    The same cycle of violence all over again.
    And then Israel would be blamed as an Imperialistic Zionist power hell bent on killing Palestenians.
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    http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/...-militants-fire-rocket-from-gaza-into-israel/
    Excerpts about what started this :-
    It was the first time a Gaza rocket had struck southern Israel in more than three months, and stoked fears that the mass protests in the West Bank over the fate of prisoners held in Israeli jails could spread to the Hamas-run territory.

    Following weeks of anger in support of four prisoners on long-term hunger strike, the issue came to head on Saturday with news that a 30-year-old prisoner who had been interrogated for throwing stones, had died in custody.
    Arafat Jaradat was arrested on February 18 and interrogated by Israel's Shin Bet internal security services on suspicion of involvement in a "stone-throwing terror attack" in November. Five days later, he died in Megiddo prison.

    His death sparked angry demonstrations across the West Bank, with Palestinian prisoner affairs minister Issa Qaraqaa saying preliminary results from his autopsy showed he had died "as a result of torture."

    At his funeral near the southern city of Hebron on Monday, militants from Al-Aqsa Brigades, an armed offshoot of Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas's Fatah party, vowed revenge, with the group claiming Tuesday's rocket as a first response.

    "In a preliminary response to the killing of our hero the prisoner Arafat Jaradat, we claim responsibility for firing a Grad rocket on Ashkelon at 6:00 am (0400 GMT)," the Gaza branch said in a statement.
    -------------------------------

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
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  5. nrupatunga

    nrupatunga Senior Member Senior Member

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    These hamas or whoever ensure safe rocket launches, when i say safe, safe for israel. These rocket fail or fall in open/deserted areas majority of time. Even during pillar of defense some months back, israeli deaths did not cross even double digits if i recall correctly inspite of hamas launching 100's of rockets. It's not that every rocket was intercepted by iron dome etc. Many were plainly randomly targeted because they were desolated & open areas.
     
  6. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Hamas is lucky enough that their rockets actually hit the ground in one piece, and occasionally even explode. Saddam couldn't even get his Scud missiles to land in one piece. By that standard, they must be applauded as the best developers of rockets in the Arab World.

    But seriously the Israelis living in the border regions take the most precaution anywhere in the world. Not to mention sirens and drones give a few seconds to a minutes to the people to move to safety. To top that Hamas has absolutely no guidance or course correcting mechanism on board. Its like a mortar, with a booster.
     
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  7. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    Dear Sir,
    Please compare the era of 1990-91 n 2013.....Those Scud missiles were intercepted by Patriot Capability 2 missiles...Also please see realistic Geographic Distance between Iraq n Israel Saddam's Scud missile Al-Hussein did penetrate PAC-2...Yes they did n it was all over the news on Abc n Cnn i remember Al-Abbas were eliminated by MIM Hawks...old cold war made U.S. SAMS.....If u compare them with Hamas Fajr n QASSIM along with Hizbollah's Katyusha n Grad variants from as close as border fence distance u r seriously making a mistake...Scud can be traced even with PAC-1 AD radar n unlike Hizbo n Hamas rockets cannot be launched at a quick reaction n surprising timings....
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  8. nrupatunga

    nrupatunga Senior Member Senior Member

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    Inspite of sirens, relatively better trained citizens, safety bunkers/shelters etc causalities are less somehow. Even if rockets with no guidance systems etc are the considered cause, somehow it would be difficult to believe that launching 100 and 100's of rockets over a period of time from so close by ranges of less than 100 kms(many cases 40-50 kms only) these rockets fail so miserably. Don't they even realise that the 1st 10-15 have fallen in open deserted areas, they still continue to rain in their rockets at the same direction. I suppose since they know that their rocket inventory would be replenished back, they just rain in their rocket to show to public we are also firing back
     
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  9. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Some indeed were intercepted by Patriot batteries stationed in Israel. But more than 50% interceptions failed. Why? Simply because the missiles broke up in flight. Actually some of the supposed interceptions by the patriot shown on CNN were in reality the missile disintegrating in a spectacular fashion.


    "to extend the Scud’s range, Iraq cut Scud Bs apart and inserted airframe sections from these missiles into other Scud Bs to increase the capacities of the fuel and oxidizer tanks from about 8,700 pounds to about 11,000 pounds.[13] Iraq also reduced warhead weight from 2,200 pounds to less than 1,100 pounds. (See Table 1 above.)In 1991, Iraq had three kinds of mobile Scud launchers for its operational Scud models.[14] Other support vehicles included cranes, separate tanker trucks for fuel and oxidizer, command and control vans, and missile resupply vehicles.[15]Iraq’s modifications to the Scud Bs created flight stability problems. Unlike more modern ballistic missile designs, the Scud’s warhead does not detach from the rest of the missile after the boost phase (the period when the rocket motor fires and accelerates the missile). The missile body reenters the atmosphere still attached to the warhead. The changes in the center of gravity and weight distribution between the modified warhead and missile body, plus the added speed and subsequent increase in atmospheric heating during reentry, made the missiles unstable and often caused them to disintegrate before impact. Such break-ups degraded accuracy by changing missile trajectory. Iranian reports about Al Hussein attacks during the Iran-Iraq war noted that the missiles frequently broke into pieces. Coalition and Israeli reports about Gulf War Scud attacks contained similar observations"http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/scud_info/scud_info_s02.htm#III.%A0%20IRAQ%27S%20SCUD%20CHAR ACTERISTICS%20AND%20CAPABILITIESDuring the Persian Gulf war, Iraq may have fired 49 Scuds, but Coalition aircraft shot down 3 of them
     
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  10. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yup, pretty much sums up the Hamas rocket barrage technique. So long as it flies, it will hit something, or somewhere. I guess thats the phillosophy of the artillery commanders, if such a designation exists in their ranks. Pray and spay, with the biggest bullets in the bag.

    But just fyi, 40km is indeed a long range, even for trained artillery gunners, who have access to the required correction data, including BDA and spotter teams to identify the accuracy of the initial hits and reccomended correction. If the Hamas wants to cause significant damage with these rockets, they'd need a spotter or BDA team(s).
    At times I feel they aren't even trying.
     
  11. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    Exactly true n i don't know if u know this but Iraq had ABM capability yes they were the first middle eastern country in the 80's 2 have anti-ballistic well at least anti-Scud missile capability which they effectively demonstrated in IRAN-IRAQ war.....Basically those were made by Yugo n East German Engineers n were deployed 2 defend Saddam Hussein's palaces n offices complex in Baghdad against Iranian fired North Korean NODONG SCUDS n Chinese M-88 series MRBMs......:taunt1::rolleyes:

    Iraq used up all its Scud missiles in Iran Invasion ie-Iran/Iraq War they hardly had missiles so they "cannibalised'' different missile parts......
    About comparing unguided rockets of Hamas n Hizbollah made in kitchen n shanty apartment rooms to Scud-B/C variants is IMHO funny........
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  12. nrupatunga

    nrupatunga Senior Member Senior Member

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    My points are these:

    - It is difficult to believe that they don't know where exactly are the towns are. If they even use something like google earth , they will know that this town is is in south-south east direction and this is the distance from point A to point B. Even with approximation of 5 degrees, they should be able to hit the nearby town/settlement with some accuracy when are raining in 100's of rockets. If not lives atleast infrastructural damages should be more. Instead we hear that 100's and 100's of rocket fired and not even 2 buildings are destroyed, and just 3-4 persons injured and max 2 poeple killed.

    - Also if their inventory is of stone age quality, it's not that they can not acquire better rockets. They certainly are not paying for it. And if they can get those junks into gaza, then they can get much better firepower in as well. If no one atleast NokO will sell them. They will sell anything to anyone if they get hard cash. I mean much better rockets should be available on black market.

    This is what is happening majority of times. Else they should be able inflict more damage to israel than actual.
     
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  13. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well I didn't know about the ABMs of Iraq, so I guess I underestimated them. Thanx for the information.

    About he second part, it is true that the two cannot be compared in terms of specifications or manufacturing process, but the ground reality remains that neither were successful in carrying out their tasks. And missiles or whatever are compared to by field performance. And Iraq sucked royally at that.
    Hell the rockets made the libyan rebels had a much better effectiveness on the battlefield. That goes for the Syrian rebels too, though one might argue western helps was a dominating factor.
     
  14. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    Strongly Disagree Sir

    the full blown News media yahoo is anti Jew news sources and always posting like BS

    and if you take about Prisoner death in Jail...and how this will get connected by Rocket attack I don't know ..So there will be a some connections between them ...If any Muslim or Arab get scratched by a Jew there will be a Headline by all International Media and If there will be a Jew murdered by Arab or Muslim This will be a Headline only in Jerusalem Post ....

    and Sir You know more than me in this kind of Scenario's Please don't take other News sources Story ..post your Own words Sir

    Finally Jewish had 5000+ years of History Just think about this If a Religion had this much of Ancient history How about their lands ..maybe Their size up to India ..But what about Israel They are still fighting for their Promise Land


    Long live Jewish State
    :israel:
     
  15. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    You've raised some very valid points, something which one with a higher techical skill only can answer. But about the google earth mark. You must realise that unlike the projectile motion we are taught in school, there are a lot of variables here. No missile/shell can claim to be accurate out at 40-60km (to a reasonable cep) without the multitude of factors being taken into account and corrections being applied.Hell even snipers taking shots at 2500 yards must take into consideration the humidity, the wind speed and direction and well, even the rotation of the earth. Now thats some serious calculation. Now compare it to 40km targets
    Hamas for certain cannot do these calculations. Whats worse, the poor aerodynamics of "kitchen made" rockets makes the problem far worse. IMHO they should get a artillery gun, even a vintage one from the cold war, that way they'd atleast have a better hit probability.

    And about procuring better weapons, there is a far greater risk as there are fewer vendors available, and most if not all are under the surveillence of the CIA/MOSSAD/MI6/GRU. Supposeing if they get access to them,Attempting to smuggle them into Lebenon is another nightmare. You can read about the number of airstrikes carried out by IAF to cut resupplies to the Hezbollah. Its really a vice grip, and Hamas /Hezbollah have no answers.
     
  16. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    My dear if u have WLRs, Anti-personnel Short range radars, Iron Dome, David Sling, IAI, Elbit systems made drones air-patrolling the area 24/7 then howcome Missile n Rockets sucessfully penetrate the territory with high field performance....Also "Iraq Sucked Royally" b'cause they were defeated let say overpoweringly. Saddam n his Scud operators or i would say any body in their position could't do a S**t in that situation when u have bee type formations of All 4th gen F-16, F/A-18, F-15 coupled with Apache strikes n tomahawk cruise missile strikes on Scud hideouts......I guess u should know this as frm ur post itself i read lot of tactical strike formations n SEAD missions....
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  17. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Come on, Now thats just arguing for the sake of it. Unless the israelis or anyone for that matter decided to put on an energy field or a giant umbrella covering their entire airspace right upto space, they can never guarantee hundred percent missile defence. And last I checked, Davids sling or the iron dome were no energy shields. You can put all the currrent MD systems in an area, but if the enemy outnumbers your missile defence missiles, some will get through. Now add to that the possibility of an unpredictable trajectory, as demonstrated by the Hamas rockets, it is possible that the missile will miss its mark altogether. And this has happened, even though the percentage is rather small.

    Then about the drones monitoring the territories under Hamas. You must realise that even the US with its fleet of satellites cannot track the russian road mobile BM carriers. And you expect the israeli drones to know exactly where a sub ten meter rocket is positioned, that too all the time and every time. Fact is a truck carrying vegetables could also be carrying a rocket inside it. The fact that hundreds of rockets get fired before israeli preemptive strike is a vindication of the fact that their surveillence is not working as well as they hoped.
     
  18. nrupatunga

    nrupatunga Senior Member Senior Member

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    The point about google earth was just pointed that they have a much better idea where to point & fire than blindly shooting at the target. It's certainly not that one can rely only on google earth to wage an asymmetric war. Yes, these "kitchen made"rockets do not have better quality. The point made by me was to say when you are raining in thousands of rockets in a year with more or less zero damages to the enemy, seriously one needs to think how to improve. I felt there was some sort of intentional firing in deserted areas but still shout from rooftops that we are raining in missile day in and day out at the enemy. Then ask for dole from the ummah.

    Also wrt better weaponary, if they are really i mean really determined to get them whatever be the cost, they can get them or atleast improve their inventory to an extent. But that strongwill is missing is what i feel.
     
  19. nrupatunga

    nrupatunga Senior Member Senior Member

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    When it comes to media war, israel beats others by miles. Can the israelis do the kinda bombings, military ops on arabs all around them when world media is totally against them and get away everytime. Its not just the respective govt in the west, even their public supports israel than israel's neighbors. Else how can the west govts stand for israel everytime. Since without public backing why will govt stand for israel?? Just think about iranian nuclear case, more than the west, it's israel's problem. But still you have every western govt saying that we will sanction iran, if the need be we have military options on the table as well.
     
  20. Shirman

    Shirman Regular Member

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    Correction, the Gist of my Argument with u was u based Iraqis who were immensely suppressed during Desert storm '91 n Hamas with Hisbollah as worst rocket/ missile operators in the Arab world..... My message at this point on this topic is when u can limit ur enemy's FIELD PERFORMANCE with the help of force multipliers as in both cases.... Israel's example with hamas rockets n example of Saddam's Scud attack on Israel u cannot judge them on that particular basis. U r absolutely right that Hamas do penetrate their enemy's airspace "Sometimes'' but at least Israel limits its casualties n victims by decreasing its enemies field performance.....
     
  21. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    In case you have misunderstood, I tend to support Israel here.
     
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