India US Relations

winton

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so what are your thoughts on australia being bought over buy china and India?
Oz is not being bought over by China or let alone india. They are just our best customers. They buy our dirt. We have a current account surplus with china.

however, India has a currect account deficit with China, so it appears as if china is buying india.

Trust me, the bugger is a Chinese troll pretending to be an Aussie. I can bet my life on it.

A native Aussie would have to be thoroughly shameless to constantly praise China the way this fellow has been doing. Every country has people who are proud of their own nation. But here we have a fellow who is praising another nation to the skies, almost to the extent of boot-licking. It is not a usual phenomenon at all.

Some of the things he has already said are, "Indians should be persuaded to accept Chinese hegemony in Indian ocean", "India is poor and China is rich", and a variety of other bullshit like that. Now, one has to be a big nether-licker to call China a "rich nation", especially if the fellow is actually a Westerner.

Just go through his posting history - he does not care what shit you talk about Australia - he is a tiresome Chinese troll.
I actually categorically deny that I am a chinese troll.

Actually, I think an Aussie would be thoroughly please with himself that he was able to get an indian upset even if he is telling the truth. I wouldn't discount the use of praising the chinese to achieve those goals. However, I have moved past that. I am only interested in the truth.

I think you guys really only have yourselves to blame being so sensitive to chinese praise. But oh well.

Us Aussies, don't really care what you say about us coz we know we live in the most liveable secure clean country in the world that doesn't stink. How can anything that an indian say affect us? However, I've come to appreciate india more and more. I'm kinda pro india.
 

spikey360

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The future of Indo-US relationship looks bleak. They always have, no matter how Prime Ministers and Presidents have tried to dress the stale turkey as a delicacy.
USA has always been supporting Pakistan to check the rise of India. It has also dished out a lot of sanctions when we were pursuing our nuclear programme, so in no way should we mistake the devil as an angel or even a friend.
Also, if India aims to be a great power, it will always find the USA as an adversary, never a friend, just like USSR found it and China is finding it. So in one short word, Bleak. That's how the future of this 'relationship' looks.
 

prohumanity

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Future of India-US relationship depends on what US does. If US continues to use Pakistan as a counterbalance and keep "pisssing" Indians...the relationship will be bleak. India is not a little banana republic..it's a giant...an ancient civilization...which needs to be respected ...not intimidated.
I think US politicians are still in their arrogant attitude treat India at par with a Islamic, terrorist hub ..Pakistan and this policy is going to backfire badly on them.
The attempt to RECREATE Soudi +Pakistan+ Taliban axis ..to counter India or China ..is going to fail as people understand that "divide and conquer" policy doesnot work in the age of internet as people can communicate and expose such evil strategies easily.
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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Pakistan still supports terror operations in India: US expert

Pakistan continues to support terror operations in India even after Nawaz Sharif has taken over as the new Prime Minister, a former top Pentagon official and an eminent defence analyst has told the US Congress.
"They support terror operations in India with terrorist organisations. They support the Haqqani network and the Taliban in conducting operations against the United States and NATO and Afghanistan. They've got blood all over their hands with the casualties," General (Retd) Jack Keane said Wednesday.

Currently the Chairman of the Board of top US think-tank, Institute for the Study of War, Keane said during a Congressional hearing that he does not expect much from the current regime.

"This is a regime that is dominated by its military, who puts its military self above the state. We've got a weak civilian government, fundamentally corrupt. The economy is in the tank. We've got a raging insurgency. We've got an escalating nuclear power," Keane said.

Stating that terrorist safe-havens is a big issue, Keane recommended that US forces be permitted to target Haqqani network inside Pakistan.

"My recommendation to mitigate that risk is to permit targeting of the Haqqani network in those sanctuaries in Pakistan, and then you bring down Haqqani's operational network and certainly raise the morale of the ANSF forces to the point where they think they have a chance," he said.

Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said for Afghanistan to achieve security and stability, Pakistan is going to have to play a stronger and more positive role.

"Extremist groups like the Taliban, al-Qaeda and the Haqqani network have used areas in the Pakistan border as insurgent sanctuaries to conduct militant operations inside Afghanistan, without much resistance from the Pakistani intelligence and military forces, if not outright collaboration," she said.

"Because Pakistan is vital in establishing stability in the region, we must work with the government, but we must not continue to give billions of dollars in aid to Pakistan and hope and pray and wish that the prime minister will work with us. We must ensure that Pakistan is meeting certain benchmarks in its fight against these insurgent sanctuaries within its borders, or else Pakistan should not receive further US funding," the Congresswoman said.

Testifying before the Congressional Committee, Lisa Curtis of the Heritage Foundation said India's goals in Afghanistan match those of the US.

"The problem is that Pakistan is paranoid about any role that India has in Afghanistan. Even if the Indian role is helping with the economy, Pakistan sees any increased influence that India has in Afghanistan as detrimental to Pakistan's interest," she said.

"But I don't think we can play into Pakistan's hands and ask India to pull back from Afghanistan just to appease Pakistan. I think the only way to reduce the Pakistani paranoia is to encourage better Indo-Pakistani relations," she noted.

Appreciating India's role in Afghanistan, Congressman Ami Bera said New Delhi has already invested about USD 3 billion in the war-torn nation.

"I think they stand ready to continue to invest in infrastructure. Both their industry and their government want to see a stable Afghanistan. They want to see stability in South Asia," he said.

Stephen Biddle, an adjunct senior fellow for defence policy at the Council on Foreign Relations and professor of political science and international affairs at George Washington University, said he would like to see India's role in Afghanistan to be a part of a larger strategy to deal with Pakistan.

"I could imagine India being cooperative in a way that would help us build leverage with Pakistan. If it's uncoordinated, however, mostly what it stands to do is play into Pakistani paranoia in a way that isn't constructive and doesn't move our agenda forward," he said.

Pakistan still supports terror operations in India: US expert - Indian Express
 

Abhijeet Dey

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India and the Kennedy years: How Washington and New Delhi came close to a clinch
Chidanand Rajghatta,Times of India, Nov 23, 2013

LINK: timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/India-and-the-Kennedy-years-How-Washington-and-New-Delhi-came-close-to-a-clinch/articleshow/26274259.cms

WASHINGTON: The United States mourned the death and celebrated the life on Friday of arguably its most charismatic President who was cut down by an assassin's bullet 50 years ago in the prime of his life — at a time he had elevated US-India ties to heights that were never achieved before and did not approach till recent years.

Largely unsung and all by forgotten in New Delhi, John F Kennedy, or simply JFK to generations, came to India's help when it was receiving a drubbing from China in 1962, funnelling billions of dollars of aid to New Delhi in the years before and after. But for the cussedness of the Indian establishment then in thrall of "non-alignment," Kennedy wanted to forge an even closer relationship with a county he adored.

He also detailed to India two of America's most brilliant minds — Chester Bowles and John Kenneth Galbraith — who as ambassadors ensured that ties with New Delhi received top billing in Washington. Both had direct access to Kennedy and Nehru, as did Indian ambassadors in Washington. Kennedy, who would have been 96 if he were alive, once called the Indian deputy chief of mission to the White House to deliver a message.

Indeed, while much of India remembers and recoils at the American bullying during the Nixon Presidency with the nuclear carrier USS Enterprise in the midst of the 1971 Indo-Pak war, less well recalled is the same aircraft carrier was dispatched to the Bay of Bengal during the Sino-Indian conflict ''to steady Indian nerves,'' according to diplomatic historian Dennis Kux.

There was little recall of all this — much less the massive developmental aid that began in the Kennedy years — in the Indian diplomatic community or the New Delhi commentariat this week as a whole generation of Americans pined and ached over the ''swinging sixties'' - a decade that not only promised to put the Cold War in deep freeze but also take on rampant racism and sexism. All that was disrupted and delayed for years with the bullet Lee Harvey Oswald fired into Kennedy's head in Dallas; also dislocated was a Kennedy drive for a closer embrace of India after it had been lacerated by China and led down by the Soviet Union during that conflict.

In his study of the Kennedy years in the context of India, Kux writes about Kennedy's great regard and affection for India starting from his days as a Senator when he took the initiative to sponsor a resolution urging more economic aid for India, ''although his personal contact with Nehru was less than sparkling.'' The Prime Minister showed little interest in talking with the young Massachusetts representative when he visited in India in 1951, says Kux, writing that ''Nehru's preachy neutralism put Kennedy off somewhat.'' But he respected the prime minister as one of the great political leaders of the 20th century and praised the ''soaring idealism of Nehru'' in his first state of the union address in 1961.

But it was in the economic and developmental sphere that Kennedy really stepped on it, committing nearly $1 billion annually (a massive amount those days and one that made India the largest recipient of US aid) to an often ungrateful basket case whose defense minister frequently twitted Washington at the U.N. Even Nehru was gratified by the gesture, and in a letter to Kennedy, thanked him effusively, writing: ''Our task, great as it is, has been made light by the goodwill and generous assistance tht has come to us from the United States. To the people of the United States, and more especially to you, Mr President, we feel deeply grateful.''

Among the signature US projects in India -- besides food aid -- that emerged from the Kennedy years was the Tarapur nuclear plant; IIT Kanpur, styled after MIT; the Nagarjun Sagar Dam in Andhra Pradesh; and the Premier automobile factory in Mumbai.
 

prohumanity

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There is so much to like about American people....very tolerant, good human beings indeed. Unfortunately, American leadership and its Military Industrial Complex ..controlled largely by zionist group...has been following disasterous policies. More and more arrogance, intimidation of big nations, same old tactics of using smaller nation to irritate major nations...is becoming more common in US foreign policy.. it's earning more enemies and the giant nations are reacting to this intimidation by fiecely making more and more weapons. Just watch recent Chinese Nuclear Submarines, Indian high tech Missiles,Russian fighter jets ....multiplying by the day.....Who are they afraid of? You don't need Submarines,missiles and 5th gen fighter jets to fight terrorists.
I think US rulers have lost their way...even average Americans understand this fact but they donot have any power to stop it. They feel helpless. The policy has bben hijacked by defense and oil lobby and only language is use of more intimidation and more military force. In such a scenario. I truly believe that the future of Indo-US relationship seems bleak. The two democracies should have been allies...but US ,somehow ,can not get rid of its "problem Child" called Paki. Probably, US--Saudi--Paki axis of.......is alive and well. US needs to liberate itself from warmonger,blood hungry greedy profiteers.
 

ericliang313

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There is so much to like about American people....very tolerant, good human beings indeed. Unfortunately, American leadership and its Military Industrial Complex ..controlled largely by zionist group...has been following disasterous policies. More and more arrogance, intimidation of big nations, same old tactics of using smaller nation to irritate major nations...is becoming more common in US foreign policy.. it's earning more enemies and the giant nations are reacting to this intimidation by fiecely making more and more weapons. Just watch recent Chinese Nuclear Submarines, Indian high tech Missiles,Russian fighter jets ....multiplying by the day.....Who are they afraid of? You don't need Submarines,missiles and 5th gen fighter jets to fight terrorists.
I think US rulers have lost their way...even average Americans understand this fact but they donot have any power to stop it. They feel helpless. The policy has bben hijacked by defense and oil lobby and only language is use of more intimidation and more military force. In such a scenario. I truly believe that the future of Indo-US relationship seems bleak. The two democracies should have been allies...but US ,somehow ,can not get rid of its "problem Child" called Paki. Probably, US--Saudi--Paki axis of.......is alive and well. US needs to liberate itself from warmonger,blood hungry greedy profiteers.
I agree that the U.S. government has a horrible, unjustified and unsustainable foreign policy - but you have to understand that the Americans only cling to Pakistan because they have no real choice in the matter. Haven't you heard that it's better to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer? Pakistan is the only Islamic state with nuclear capabilities, and makes it unique. A unstable ally (at least in name) is better, far more so, than an unstable adversary.

And if India had any true foresight, it would have tried to reconciliate with Pakistan long ago.
 

northernarunachalpradesh

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I agree that the U.S. government has a horrible, unjustified and unsustainable foreign policy - but you have to understand that the Americans only cling to Pakistan because they have no real choice in the matter. Haven't you heard that it's better to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer? Pakistan is the only Islamic state with nuclear capabilities, and makes it unique. A unstable ally (at least in name) is better, far more so, than an unstable adversary.

And if India had any true foresight, it would have tried to reconciliate with Pakistan long ago.
Can i tell you one thing please dont over estimate pakkibeggers.I dont know why you people bring them in all ofywillbankrupt th our threads.

They will bankrupt them self just by preparing for a war.
 

Hari Sud

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NaMo has got all the advice which he needs on foreign policy matters.

He still is not the government. That will happen on 26th.

His cabinet minister, his advisors and top Babus are still in the formation stage. It will be a month before this process is complete and we do not wish to rush him.

Then he will get advice from media, intellectuals, people like us and others in the Forum, his cabinet and his party etc.

Dealing with US and mending relations with them is Low in his priorities. US has made that job very difficult hence he has to move with them with caution.

He has to begin to fix the economy first. He has to fight his parliamentary battles first to change the direction of the economy. There is a huge deficit, all created by the subsidies economy of Sonia & Manmohan Singh. Last two years of $40 billion welfare state of free food and jobs has to be mended. Can you believe that 40% of Delhi population, some with income of rupees hundred thousand registered for subsidized food. Shame on these people. The point here is that people want jobs not subsidies. If you begin subsidy regime then the most needy is the one who do not get it.

Other economic matters which need to be mended and toned up is the lethargy in Babu culture. It has to be dealt with newer mode of operation and simplifying the procedures and approvals. There I believe $300 billion of infrastructure projects stuck in one approval or the other approval process. Some procedural modification may require parliamentary approval. Environmental ministry approval is one of them. Defence Ministry is another where top to bottom procedural changes have to made and Babus who have become very comfortable are to be retired.

When he has done this part, then he has to pay attention on how to deal with Pakistan. They are keen to know him and his personality. They would continue to send terrorists and Border Action Teams (BAT) across the border. One such incident and Indian commandos waiting in readiness go across the border and get them alive to make a media event of Pakistani denials. That will be good lesson to Pakistan. It has to be kept with army in complete readiness.

Take your time to deal with US. In about six months reply to US President's message and his invite to Washington.

Tell Obama to send his most influential advisor to New Delhi for talks, so that Modi could size Obama' s views about India. At the moment Obama has been completely mislead by Kerry, his State Department. Before him, that ever smiling lady Hillary Clinton did the most damage. They were listening to too much leftist Human Rights organizations in US and by the views of Musharraf of Pakistan from 2002 to 2009 and King of Jordan who was being mislead by Pakistani diplomats. They played their role of complaining to President Bush.

First on the agenda when Obama Advisor arrives, should be withdrawal of case against Indian diplomat. If that does not happen then arrest a US diplomat on very similar charges in India.

Right now Obama and Modi are on the same sort of relationship as Charles De Gaulle of France were with US from mid nineteen fifties and sixties. US and De Gaulle never saw eye to eye with each other. They worked on some issues together and on other they differed openly. But US always kept working with him. Would you believe France was not part of NATO as long as De Gaulle was in power. He tested his nuclear bomb without even bothering to consult US.

Modi and Obama and Obama's replacement in two years are in the same state. De Gaulle was mad at US and UK for mistreating him during the WWII. He took that insult to heart. He would not shake hand with the British Prime Minister as a rebuff for war time mistreatment. US wanted him to come and visit in Washington, but he would come to United Nation or Canada but ignore US. It is only after a long delay that he visited US.

Modi is in same state. If he is able to mend the economy and get all round approval for steps he takes to mend the economy, he can afford not to visit Washington.

Everything depends upon how US and it's State Department is able to mend its ways. A few people may have to be shown the gate for taking falsehood against Modi to a higher level.

God help Modi, somehow the economy takes a turn to the better. Trust me US would fall in line. They fell in line after enmity with Mao Tse Tung and twenty years later went begging of an alliance.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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it is not only the humiliation meted out to modi by usa but there are a host of other issues which have made indo-us relation reach a roadblock like khobragade issue,trade disputes,selling generic drugs,tender of solar cell panels,illegal survelliance on our leaders etc.also america has been for the last 50 years selling military hardware to our enemy pakistan and it's habit of meddling in india's internal politics have added fuel to the fire.
 

mattster

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There is so much to like about American people....very tolerant, good human beings indeed. Unfortunately, American leadership and its Military Industrial Complex ..controlled largely by zionist group...has been following disasterous policies. More and more arrogance, intimidation of big nations, same old tactics of using smaller nation to irritate major nations...is becoming more common in US foreign policy.. it's earning more enemies and the giant nations are reacting to this intimidation by fiecely making more and more weapons. Just watch recent Chinese Nuclear Submarines, Indian high tech Missiles,Russian fighter jets ....multiplying by the day.....Who are they afraid of? You don't need Submarines,missiles and 5th gen fighter jets to fight terrorists.
I think US rulers have lost their way...even average Americans understand this fact but they donot have any power to stop it. They feel helpless. The policy has bben hijacked by defense and oil lobby and only language is use of more intimidation and more military force. In such a scenario. I truly believe that the future of Indo-US relationship seems bleak. The two democracies should have been allies...but US ,somehow ,can not get rid of its "problem Child" called Paki. Probably, US--Saudi--Paki axis of.......is alive and well. US needs to liberate itself from warmonger,blood hungry greedy profiteers.
You must truly live in a glass house.

First of all - please show me a country on this planet where the richest 1% do not exert a overwhelming influence far beyond their numbers in the running of the country ?
Better yet, show me a nation where the top corporate houses do not wield any political influence ?
Are you going to sit here, and tell me that India is such a country ?
Even communist countries like China can't make that claim. The US is not a utopian society.

It bothers you that the Jewish lobby in the US is all powerful - What if in another 20 years, the Indian lobby made up of first and 2nd generation Indians who constitute about 1% of the US population having climbed the ladder of financial and political success become a really powerful lobby ? Would you then be bitching about that too ?
Jews are powerful because they are rich - True statement, but also lots of Jews have started companies, created thousands of jobs, and paid billions in taxes. They have also won a lot of Nobel prizes. Its not a one-way street.

The US spends a lot on defense, maybe too much, but who are the Philippines or South Korea or Japan or Taiwan going to run to when the Chinese start claiming every piece of land as close as a 100 miles from their shore. Its better to have a really big stick, and not have to use it, than to carry a small stick that gives people ideas.

Lets talk about Pakistan. US may get duped by Pakistan sometimes, but it is the only country that can make Pak blink !
India is stuck in a stalemate with Pak because of the MAD doctrine. India could not even attack Pak after the Mumbai incident - Why ??

Would you not rather have a US that has some influence over Pak than a totally disengaged US.
A US that is engaged with Pak with a carrot & stick approach is a far better option than leaving Pak alone.
Would you prefer that the US left Pak and China alone to turn South Asia into their own "strategic depth" backyard or should I say graveyard ?
 
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pmaitra

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@mattster,

If it is left to only India and Pakistan, India would turn Pakistan into glass.

Just like US props up India against PRC, it props up Pakistan against India. It is called realpolitik.

My point is, and I have said it earlier, Indian has to be self contained, and self sufficient, without having to integrate itself with the rest of the globe, and seek to make some kind of peace with PRC, which is a greater threat than Pakistan.

In case of India-PRC war, it could be either like 1962 or 1972. We cannot count on anyone.
 
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mattster

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@mattster,

If it is left to only India and Pakistan, India would turn Pakistan into glass.

Just like US props up India against PRC, it props up Pakistan against India. It is called realpolitik.

My point is, and I have said it earlier, Indian has to be self contained, and self sufficient, without having to integrate itself with the rest of the globe, and seek to make some kind of peace with PRC, which is a greater threat than Pakistan.

In case of India-PRC war, it could be either like 1962 or 1972. We cannot count on anyone.
I don't think so......india's conventional superiority has been check-mated by Pak getting nukes courtesy of China.
The proof of the pudding lies in the fact that India did nothing after the Mumbai attacks or even the parliament attacks.

Do you really think India would have dome nothing after the Mumbai attacks if Pak has no nuke capability ? Not a chance !!
Sometimes too much of the patriotic KoolAid can make you dizzy.
 
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pmaitra

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I don't think so......india's conventional superiority has been check-mated by Pak getting nukes courtesy of China.
The proof of the pudding lies in the fact that India did nothing after the Mumbai attacks or even the parliament attacks.

Do you really think India would have dome nothing after the Mumbai attacks if Pak has no nuke capability ? Not a chance !!
Sometimes too much of the patriotic KoolAid can make you dizzy.
You missed my point. I repeat.

If it is left to only India and Pakistan, India would turn Pakistan into glass.

Unfortunately, it will have to be a massive and crippling strike.

In 1984, when India and Israel planned to strike Kahuta, India developed cold feet at the thought of a counter attack on Trombay. Today, we are still developing a cold feet because of <insert speculation here>.

I really think had it been left to India and Pakistan, India would have retaliated against Pakistan after the Mumbai attacks. Again, this is what I think, in other words, these are my thoughts.

Pakistan exists for a reason. It serves some purpose. It is not totally useless.
 

Compersion

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I dont know but i get a feeling there is a bit of melancholy in USA about Obama and USA foreign policy.
 

mattster

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I will take "melancholy" any day and twice on Sundays, to the cluster-f*** of a mess that George W Bush left behind in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Remember what Obama inherited when he stepped into office.
 

mattster

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You missed my point. I repeat.

If it is left to only India and Pakistan, India would turn Pakistan into glass.

Unfortunately, it will have to be a massive and crippling strike.

In 1984, when India and Israel planned to strike Kahuta, India developed cold feet at the thought of a counter attack on Trombay. Today, we are still developing a cold feet because of <insert speculation here>.

I really think had it been left to India and Pakistan, India would have retaliated against Pakistan after the Mumbai attacks. Again, this is what I think, in other words, these are my thoughts.

Pakistan exists for a reason. It serves some purpose. It is not totally useless.

I didn't miss you point - no country including the US would have stood against India if India had launched a strike.
What was done in Mumbai was so blatant......so obviously the work of the ISI.

India did not strike for fear of of crossing the nuclear threshold. Saying that the US held them back is just an excuse.
 

pmaitra

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I didn't miss you point - no country including the US would have stood against India if India had launched a strike.
What was done in Mumbai was so blatant......so obviously the work of the ISI.

India did not strike for fear of of crossing the nuclear threshold. Saying that the US held them back is just an excuse.
US and PRC are the two countries who would have jumped to the defense of Pakistan.
 

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