Future indian navy by 2020

[Parthy]

Hello All,

Please join this discussion on

"What should Indian Navy provided with to counter any threats to Indian Ocean and to Nation". .. =i+http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/images/smilies/indiaC.gif

** Provided to suit Indian Economy

My suggestion would be:

4 - Aircraft Carrier Battle group.
1 on backup &
3 - on regular Patroling (East, West and South Coast)

8 - Nuclear SSN's
8 - Nuclear SSBN
6 - Diesel Electric Engine

180 - Strong Surface fleet including

* Stealth Frigate - 20
* Destroyers - 25
* Corvettes - 35
* Amphibious Warships - 6
* LPD's - 4
* Tankers
* Missile boats
* Unmanned Attack/Survillance Crafts

Provide your views by on going acquisitions...

 

[SHASH2K2]

Nice suggestions but I wonder how will we have 4 AC battle groups by 2020. Diesel submarines will definitely be more than 6 .

 

[Neil]

Nice suggestions but I wonder how will we have 4 AC battle groups by 2020. Diesel submarines will definitely be more than 6 .

we are getting 3 AC by 2020 and if god willing viraat will still remain in service by then so 4 AC.....

 

[sayareakd]

by that time we will have ABM defence ships, with on board LRTR.

 

[Parthy]

Nice suggestions but I wonder how will we have 4 AC battle groups by 2020. Diesel submarines will definitely be more than 6 .

We know that Britain has reduced its defence budget. Both France and Britain are looking forward to share 1 Queen class AC by BAE systems. This is out of 2 which is actually planned.

What if India gets one of it !!!! :happy_7:

 

[warriorextreme]

Diesel subs will be around 25-25
ACs will be 4 and one near retirement so 3 ACs in best condition.
nuclear subs will be around 4-5 home made and 4-5 on lease(from Russia)
and i guess we have to speed up and also increase our frigate and destroyer deployments.
and awacs shall be around 5+ considering west and east coast threats..

 

[warriorextreme]

i guess cameroon has decided to put money in both ACs :angry_6:

 

[SHASH2K2]

We know that Britain has reduced its defence budget. Both France and Britain are looking forward to share 1 Queen class AC by BAE systems. This is out of 2 which is actually planned.

What if India gets one of it !!!! :happy_7:

i guess cameroon has decided to put money in both ACs Click here to enlarge

Britain don't have budget to complete both AC and is more than willing to sell us . problem with us is that we cannot afford 4-5 billion dollars for that AC. Also we have plan to build our own AC . If we keep on buying AC,s when will we learn to build one. Its better for us to concentrate on our own AC program.

 

[pmaitra]

Good suggestion.

I would suggest some modifications though. We must have:

• Amphibious Warships - 10
• LPDs - 8

These will be required for a prospective naval assault on the coastline of Pakistan, or for any mission ti ensure the safety of ethnic Indians in Fiji and East Africa.

 

[Parthy]

Britain don't have budget to complete both AC and is more than willing to sell us . problem with us is that we cannot afford 4-5 billion dollars for that AC. Also we have plan to build our own AC . If we keep on buying AC,s when will we learn to build one. Its better for us to concentrate on our own AC program.

I agree.. But it will take sometime for IAC-2 to get on drawing board... :emot0:

 

[Rebelkid]

We need 4 carriers so that 1 can be in dry dock while 3 are operational i.e 3 carrier task force plus rather huge fleet of submarines at least 30-40+ but, i doubt that can be achieved by 2020

I agree.. But it will take sometime for IAC-2 to get on drawing board...

I heard IAC2 will be nuclear carrier

 

[Parthy]

We need 4 carriers so that 1 can be in dry dock while 3 are operational i.e 3 carrier task force plus rather huge fleet of submarines at least 30-40+ but, i doubt that can be achieved by 2020



I heard IAC2 will be nuclear carrier

Things are not confirmed yet about IAC2.. Ppl are expecting IAC2 to be nuclear but there are more technical glitch in creating 100MW High pressure reactor for the planned SSBN's. So i dont think IAC2 will be nuclear powered.

1 for sure is there will not be steam catapult for arrestors..

 

[Neil]

Diesel subs will be around 25-25
nuclear subs will be around 4-5 home made and 4-5 on lease(from Russia)

what do you mean by 25-25....??

there isnt any agreement of that sort with russia....till now..

 

[Parthy]

A Blueprint fora future Indian Navy

Navies are meant to project power, protect sea lanes and defend the country fair distances away from the coastline. They can serve to blockade enemies in their offensive role and platforms to land forces. India has no territorial ambitions and is currently interested in being a regional power with no present intentions beyond the Bay of Bengal, Indian Ocean and the sea lanes from the Straits of Hormuz to the Straits of Malacca, through which traverse its own energy supplies and those of its potential allies and opponents.

The first step in defense planning is to determine the most likely nations which may wage a war against our nation. In India�s case these are Pakistan, China and Bangladesh in descending order. Of these Pakistan and Bangladesh have adjacent maritime boundaries. Bangladesh Navy is mainly a coast guard with few ocean going frigates and no submarines. Thus our aging carrier Viraat and a few frigates with a small reconnaissance and anti-ship warfare capable air-arm and two submarines would suffice to blockade and have complete domination over the waters of the Bay of Bengal. Air and naval bases at Vishakhapatnam and Andaman islands could be expanded and modernized to fulfill that role. A war with Bangladesh is a remote possibility, but it is best to be prepared for a coming world, where oil and water are likely to be the reason for future wars.

A much more likely scenario is war with Pakistan. Its newer Agosta submarines and P3C Orion anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare capabilities require the Gorshkov-Vikramaditya and a large force of submarines, ASW frigates, destroyers and an air-arm with the equivalence of P3C Orion or Nimrod planes. Our aircraft carrier, a billion plus dollar equipment needs a support group of ASW ships, ship based helicopters, missile frigates, destroyers and submarines. This is one of the main reasons that bigger powers like Russia and China have not fielded aircraft carriers. These assets are very difficult to protect against hunter-killer and attack submarines and cruise missiles. Thus the use of an aircraft carrier to project power is only feasible against Pakistan and foolhardy or impossible against China, Russia, France, Germany, UK or the US. Except for China, the rest are unlikely opponents and even China is unlikely to go to war with us again. Nevertheless, all possibilities must be considered and the way to deal with superior or stronger powers is to retain the capability of severe punishing retaliatory damage to inhibit misadventures by pre-emptive aggressors.

The next factor to be considered is the cost benefit ratio. Aircraft carriers even like the Gorshkov and its aircraft and the support vessels to protect it, would cost two billion dollars for one carrier group. Thus two aircraft carriers should suffice. They would be unusable against any major power and are likely to lose their effectiveness even against Pakistan with time, as it acquires more sophisticated submarines, planes and missiles. On the other hand missile and ASW frigates or destroyers and ASW and air to ship missile carrying aircraft and newer quiet diesel submarines can be built or purchased for 25 to 100 million dollars per piece. India�s 7500 kilometer shoreline permits two or three naval air-arm bases with one or two squadrons of reconnaissance, rescue and attack aircraft at three coastal areas from Gujarat coast to Kerala coast, and two from Kanyakumari to Kolkata because of the bases at Andamans and Vishakhapatnam.

Thus the top priority is a buildup of blue water ships, quiet submarines and a substantial and independent air-arm for the Indian Navy. The big bucks spending should be for a nuclear powered submarine with sea-based ballistic nuclear missiles of long ranges to serve as retaliatory deterrent. Twenty-four modern submarines, Thirty blue water navy frigates and destroyers armed with missiles, helicopters and ABMs, about 100 land based naval aircraft for reconnaissance, rescue, Anti-Submarine Warfare and equipped to attack ships and submarines, and two nuclear powered submarines with nuclear missiles would ensure India�s safety. It needs considerable time to build up navies, so foresight, planning and adequate funding are essential for India�s security. Unlikely though the scenario may be, in the event of a war with China, there must be sufficient naval power and assets to blockade the Straits of Malacca, the bottleneck of oil transit to China.

http://www.boloji.com/rt2/rt178.htm

 

[civfanatic]

How our navy grows by 2020 depends entirely on the strategic appetite of our political leadership, and how they envision India's role in the future.

The Indian Navy, historically, has been the most efficient of the branches when it comes to procuring new equipment and building self-reliance, so my hopes are high.

Personally, I would love to see at least 4 AC battle groups (1 in drydock, 3 in patrol) for defense of India's nearby seas and local power projection, but also 1 or 2 nuclear carriers for long-distance power projection anywhere in the Indian Ocean Region. That way, the next time Indians are beat up in Australia, we can scare the Ozzies by deploying a battle group off the coast of Sydney

And of course, we also need nuclear SSBNs to give our "no first use" policy some credibility, as well as SSNs and surface ships for controlling and patrolling key chokepoints like Hormuz Straits, Malacca Straits, and Aden Straits in case of war.

 

[Armand2REP]

It is pretty easy to make wishlists, but being able to pay for it is another story. Lets play a new game...

Your 10 year procurement budget is $50 billion. Listed are the costs of the items you want, make your list within your budget. Capabilities of weapon systems decrease with class.

40,000t Aircraft carrier = $2 billion
fighter squadron = $800 million
+ DDG = $1 billion
- DDG = $700 million
+ FFG = $600 million
- FFG = $400 million
+ Corvette = $300 million
- Corvette = $200 million
Missile boat = $100 million

+ AAW/ASW/ASM Stealthy
- ASW/ASM non-stealthy

SSN = $1 billion
SSBN = $2 billion
SSK = $400 million
SSK/AIP = $600 million

LPH = $400 million
LPD = $300 million
Tankers = $200 million

 

[thakur_ritesh]

It is pretty easy to make wishlists, but being able to pay for it is another story. Lets play a new game...

Your 10 year procurement budget is $50 billion. Listed are the costs of the items you want, make your list within your budget. Capabilities of weapon systems decrease with class.

40,000t Aircraft carrier = $2 billion
fighter squadron = $800 million
+ DDG = $1 billion
- DDG = $700 million
+ FFG = $600 million
- FFG = $400 million
+ Corvette = $300 million
- Corvette = $200 million
Missile boat = $100 million

+ AAW/ASW/ASM Stealthy
- ASW/ASM non-stealthy

SSN = $1 billion
SSBN = $2 billion
SSK = $400 million
SSK/AIP = $600 million

LPH = $400 million
LPD = $300 million
Tankers = $200 million

i am not getting into what should be bought and what shouldnt be but just on the capital expenditure (CE) part.

the present day CE is around 12b usd, so for the next 8-9years all the growth that india will see in its defence budget will be on the capital expenditure, other expenditure will more or less convert to as fixed cost, based on this the assumption it is expected india will spend 80b usd in the next 5 years on additional procurements a figure that will accumulating to 200b usd and there about over a period of decade, so i think spending 50b usd on IN's new procurements should be fair enough for the said period.

 

[sandeepdg]

It is pretty easy to make wishlists, but being able to pay for it is another story.

We sure are more than able to pay for it, brother ! The MMRCA deal is worth 10 Billion USD, the Navy's sub deal is going to have price a price tag of around 12 billion USD ! So there you see, two deals for a total of of 22 billion dollars ! Who else can match that kind of spending power, other than than Chinese ? You ?

 

[Parthy]

Indian Navy's indigenous ship building: A success story

On 20 April 2010 the country's first Anti Submarine Warfare Corvette (ASWC) for the Indian Navy under project P28, the 2500 tonne INS Kamotra was launched at the Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) in Kolkata. Four are of them are on order and in all 12 are intended to be built. On 29 April 2010 the Indian navy commissioned the indigenously built multi-role stealth frigate INS Shivalik and at 5300 tonnes it is the largest stealth frigate in the world. The hard to detect warships will form a crucial component of the Indian Navy for the first half of this century. These events herald the strides India has made in ship building and the coming of age of its shipyards. It can be undoubtedly said that the navy is the only service of the Indian armed forces carrying out modernization and indigenization with a long term plan with indigenization being the mantra. Setting aside the depleting submarine levels and delays in newer sub-surface inductions, the overall modernization and strategic planning of the Indian navy is going at a commendable pace with all the bureaucratic bottlenecks and political laxity notwithstanding. Even the Scorpion submarine project after all the delay is finally on track and construction is picking pace. There are currently as many as 39 warships and submarines on order with various Indian shipyards not including a couple of recently approved projects. The navy's Directorate of Naval Architecture and the shipyards have come a long way from designing and constructing small offshore vessels to constructing aircraft carriers.

Recently the defense ministry has given the green signal the much awaited Rs.50,000 crore project to manufacture the second line of conventional submarines after the Scorpene's with the help of a foreign collaborator. After the recent nod to the over Rs50,000-crore project for a second line of six submarines, the defense ministry has cleared another major program to indigenously construct four guided-missile stealth destroyers. Designated Project-15B for the four destroyers and valued around Rs.30,000 crore, it has been sent for final approval to the finance ministry. The P-15B program will be undertaken at Mazagon Docks (MDL) after the three Kolkata-class destroyers being constructed there under a long-delayed Rs 11,662-crore project, are finally delivered in 2014. The P-15B is basically a follow-on project of the 6,700-tonne Kolkata-class destroyers and will feature greater stealth and advanced sensor and weapon packages. The government also approved the construction of seven follow-on stealth frigates of project P17 (Shivalik class) to be constructed by MDL in Mumbai and GRSE in Kolkata. As is known, the construction of the indigenous aircraft carrier being built by Cochin shipyard Ltd. is going smoothly and should be launched to sea by this year end and commissioned in 2014. At 40,000 tonnes this is the largest ship ever built in India and with this India becomes only the seventh country in the world to design and construct aircraft carriers. The design for the IAC-II is also underway and this will be a much bigger and more sophisticated compared to IAC-I displacing about 65,000 tonnes.

But on the downside, the rate of building is very slow and doesn't match the rate of phasing out of ships from service. Even the Navy chief has expressed displeasure over the delay in executing orders. The shipyards need to undertake a huge modernization drive to cope with the increasing qualitative and quantitative demands. Recently few private Indian conglomerates have forayed into ship building and have established world class facilities. The government and Navy should encourage and give an impetus to the private sector to strengthen the Indian military industrial complex.

With the changed threat perception after 26/11 combined with the aggressive Chinese foray into the Indian ocean region with its string of pearl's strategy and the soon to expand exclusive economic zones have all highlighted the need for a strong Navy and finally the government seems to have woken up to the harsh reality. Slowly but surely, India is building a powerful three-dimensional blue-water Navy to protect its geo-strategic interests stretching from Hormuz Strait to Malacca Strait and with the indigenous route, is saving billions of precious foreign exchange. Hope the other services of the armed forces also take a leaf out of the Navy's book for their modernization process.

http://idrw.org/?p=1046

 

[Parthy]

Navy to Enhance Connections, Maintain Operational Readiness in Indian Ocean Region

The Defence Minister Shri AK Antony has called for increased Navy-to-Navy contact with the littoral countries of the Indian Ocean. Addressing the top brass of the Indian Navy here today, he said, such contacts would strengthen professional ties, mutual trust and streamline interoperability issues.

Shri Antony said "The complex maritime security environment in our region requires the Navy to maintain a state of perpetual readiness-operationally. You must factor in the need to be ready at all times prominently, while planning for the future. At the same time, we need to maintain-and even increase the momentum of our Navy-to-Navy contact with the littoral countries of the Indian Ocean. Such contacts strengthen professional ties, mutual trust and streamline interoperability issues."

The Defence Minister said Navy's manifold responsibilities in the Indian Ocean Region are crucial as well as sensitive, from the point of view of economic prosperity, safety and security of the nation. He was of the opinion that our maritime interests must guide and shape the conduct of naval operations during times of peace and creation of futuristic capabilities of the Indian Navy.

Referring to the piracy as a major area of concern in the Indian Ocean Region, the Minister said Indian Navy's presence in the piracy-affected areas shows our commitment and resolve to contribute our might in dealing with such threats.

Stressing the need for more contacts with other maritime nations in a calibrated manner, Mr. Antony said there is a need to sustain the momentum of cooperation with Sri Lanka to ensure peaceful fishing on either side of the International Maritime Boundary Line and to prevent a possible resurgence of the LTTE. The Minister also said New Delhi is committed to the continued deployment of ships and aircraft for enhanced surveillance off the coast of Maldives and Seychelles to ensure maritime security from piracy. "We also need to engage like-minded African states in the Western Indian Ocean Region, such as Mozambique, South Africa, Tanzania and Kenya, to enhance our strengths and contribute to peace and stability, not only in the Asia-Pacific region, but also in the entire Indian Ocean Region" the Minister added.

Stressing the need for enhanced role of the private sector in achieving self-reliance in critical technologies, the Minister said we want to give a greater role to the private sector to encourage healthy competition.

Shri Antony said that the on-going review of Defence Procurement Procedure 2008 would enhance induction of capability, along with self-reliance. The Minister assured the Naval Commanders that wherever required, import options would be considered to meet operational requirements. However, this option must be an exception and not the rule, the Minister added.

Calling for more investment towards financial and human resources in R&D, the Defence Minister said the need to modernize and introduce innovation in our shipyards can never be over-emphasized. Shri Antony was of the opinion that shipyards must meet contractual time-lines and enhance quality standards.

Referring to the creation of operational and administrative infrastructure in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands and Lakshadweep & Minicoy Islands the Defence Minister said it should be accorded due priority in close coordination with all stakeholders. He said the Government has also accorded approval for forward naval bases at Tuticorin and Paradip.

Addressing the Commanders the Naval Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma commended the Naval Commands for integrating coastal populace into the coastal security architecture through widespread (33 in the year 2010) campaigns. The Chief of Naval Staff noted with satisfaction the progress made in the National Maritime Domain Awareness initiative. The Admiral re-emphasized that Maritime Domain Awareness lay at the very core of maritime security and the creation of a National MDA network was critical. Admiral Nirmal Verma said apart from induction of new platforms and systems, optimum utilization of in-service assets is essential. He noted the significant improvement in the operational availability of aircraft resulting from improved spares availability and maintenance efficiency.

The Naval Chief urged the Commanders to cultivate a culture of cost-consciousness amongst subordinate formations. He said "Inculcating a culture of cost consciousness, to utilize the limited resources at our disposal in the most optimum manner, without compromising on our operational preparedness is therefore the need of the hour."

In the course of the conference, the Commanders deliberated on the availability of operational assets, progress of new projects and the critical need to maintain a close watch on submarine projects; means to further improve operational availability of existing combat units in general and aircraft in particular; personnel policies to improve training efficiencies and maintain satisfaction levels by further enhancing promotion prospects particularly those of sailors.

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-4680