Fulcrums & Flankers

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by rock45, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. rock45

    rock45 Founding Member/ RIP our friend

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    Do Indian Flanker squadrons train against Fulcrum squadron? I'm looking for pilots talking shop things like that. In the US F-15/16/18 pilots train against each other in different roles and was wondering if India does the same?

    Can I assume the smaller Fulcrum can turn inside a Flanker?

    I'm also interest in Indian Mirages training against either or both Fulcrums and Flankers.

    Thanks in advance if anybody can point me to some good reading.
     
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  3. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    This is a good question...I think that the Flankers and the Fulcrums will be pretty evenly matched at long range because the Flanker being much bigger will light up like a Christmas tree on radar, however it can carry on it a lot of equipment to jam these sensors. The fulcrum remains to date one of the most maneuverable dog fighters in the world and if you have a good pilot he can prbbly evade any missile. In close range, I don't think the flankers stand a chance. The Mig-29 is ridiculously maneuverable. Infact, till the end of the 1990's it could outperform in close combat any warplane that was currently in service.
     
  4. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Yes the Mig-29 Fulcrums are the best in Dogfights, but this is an era of BVR's, & the Flankers are more decisive.... correct me if am wrong..:vehicle_plane:
     
  5. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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  6. rock45

    rock45 Founding Member/ RIP our friend

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    Mig

    It seems the Fulcrum has more room in the nose then a F-16/18 if equipped with a capable radar it would be useful in the BVR role. Not on the same level as Flanker because the radar is smaller and less powerful. To me one of the main strengths of the Flanker is the means to enter and leave the fight and then reengage because of the great fuel load it carries.

    One of its weaknesses is its size its tail fin is almost the size of a Fulcrums wing, there huge bigger then F-14s.

    I'm a real firm believer in using the Flanker in a duel role India needs a platform to bring the fight outside India's borders. Nothing else India flies has the range and more important the payload capabilities as the Flanker.

    One of Pakistan's strengths with using the Viper is it's duel role. They beat F-15Cs in turning fights and are one of the best proven mini attackers in the world flying. Once you get in the no escape zone of the ARRAMS it's makes no difference what your flying it kills you the same.

    If I were setting up tactics to maybe do battle with Pakistan's Vipers I would focus on their bases. Your Flankers can fly above and around most of the ROSE Mirages and J-7 anyway.

    Can HAL speed up production of the MKI kits? Isn't the delivery dates sometime like 2015 or 2017. I like India's AF don't get me wrong but it blows my mind that you'll wait that long for basically high end 4th generation fighter that might be by 2015 be outdated anyway?
     
  7. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    That is a very good point that you make...by the time the IAF finishes building all these planes they will be about half a generation behind. However, with the advent of more powerful radars; radars strong enough to get past stealth that is, the advantage the 5fth generation fighters possess might be lost. Time will tell.
     
  8. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    okay guys I found this website that compares the flanker and the fulcrum...it was compiled for the Australian Defense ministry in the early 90's so some of the information is not...up to date. Nevertheless, a good source

    http://www.ausairpower.net/Profile-Fulcrum-Flanker.html
     
  9. rock45

    rock45 Founding Member/ RIP our friend

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    Fulcrum

    Hi pyromaniac
    That source is just a little too old for me and Kopp well I read this one story where this Aussie Hornet pilot ripe him apart. A mod in a different forum said he and this other guy's companies lost some sort of contracts for the F-111s upgrades thus the start of the Hornet and government bashing.

    I asked Russian users in other forums to search but nobody coming up with much. Russia doesn't hold a lot of exercises with other countries it seems. From what I read from a few Russian posters in different forums writes the lucky squadrons get a 100 hours flight time per year. So inner squadron training just doesn't happen it seems untraceable. Pilots usually can't stop talking trash about their aircraft and yet nothing.

    I remember at a air show I was at this F-14 pilot was going off and pointing his finger at the F-15 pilots in the next space over and told me tell him my fighter would wipe the floors with him. The Eagle pilot laugh loud and then went on to tell me about his fighter, for a long period of time. I talk with F-16 pilots and F/A-18s as well and realized all four fighter have their strengths. All four flew and the Hornet put on the best show but let me tell the Tomcat impressed me for something that big it could turn. I can only imagine how good a MKI Flanker must be design after the F-14 and with beating Eagles planned in from day one, must be.

    Getting back to my point fighter pilots talk shit so when nothing can be found it must mean it doesn't happen. Wouldn't some Fulcrum pilots who's squadron forty hours per years gets a chance to spar with the some Flankers and wins he's not going to brag?
     
  10. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Not a problem yet all.
    Su-30MKI is a versatile Fighter which can be Upgraded with all PAKFA Systems & Engines too.

    It can be made even as Partial Stealth fighter too.
    At present HAL is Building an Airframe Made with composite Materials like which are used on LCA.
    this would even inrease the range & Performance upto 20-30%.
    The PAKFA engines AL-41P which are Stealth capable will also be added to Su-30MKI.
     
  11. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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  12. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Wats that game name man..?
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    That should be a common practice I would imagine. One fighter can be used to mimic an adversary so that proper training can be imparted.
     
  14. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    The game is called MiG-29 Fulcrum... its by Novalogic... its pretty old now... I'm looking forward to some newer combat sims... nothing good has come out for the past 10 years or so in that field...
     
  15. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    I agree... It ought to be commonplace... but how frequently does it take place ??? And, how and what sort of lessons are learned from it is the real question...
     
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Seen Top Gun? It shows the US academy using a Tiger Shark to mimic MiG 21 which was the primary adversary for the Tomcat.
    In that context keeping China in mind, our countries have similar fighters so it's nearly same kind of capabilities. They have more numbers.
    India might be using the MiG 21 to mimic the F16s of Pakistan
     
  17. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Yep, seen top gun... but am not sure how much of it is true, and how much is fiction (with reference to training specifics)
     
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Should be very common as far as Indian training goes. IAF puts in one of the highest flight hours per pilot in the world
     
  19. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    There would be no way of knowing how frequently they take place... it is all confidential data.
    Same with the lessons too.
    But my guess is that these skirmishes must be undertaking often to mimic scenarios against Chinese flankers, Pakistani vipers etc.
    I guess the attempt would be to check the ability to secure lock-ons first, and improving upon that.
    Or.. the dogfights training could be tested.
    There are a million things they can do, but the basic efforts would likely be to identify strengths and weaknesses of each aircraft and how to play their strengths and cover up their weaknesses.
     
  20. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Try Ace Combat 6 it is an awesome game.
     
  21. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    Ace Combat 6 is meant not for PC, neither I own a game console. please suggest some thing for my PC. Anybody knows and good flight game that can be played online,and off course a pirated one.
     

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