Fuel Subsidies in India

Should Fuel Subsidies be scarpped ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 60.0%
  • No

    Votes: 4 20.0%
  • Subsidies should be given only to BPL families

    Votes: 4 20.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Mad Indian

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The connection may not be direct but there has always been a connection between taxes and economy. Note that even in the most economically liberal countries like the USA government actions and policies still have bearing on their economy. The government sets up and operate the educational system which produces the professionals, engineers, entrepreneurs, etc. that makes the economy move; maintenance of law and order; the government sets up and operates the various regulation agencies; government lobbies foreign countries/governments for business opportunities for their private companies; the military ensures that the strategic economic interests of the country is protected; etc., all these government actions or bodies or policies are paid for by taxes...
In USA the govt lobbies for making their country powerful and for helping the Americans , whether they implement socialist policies or Capitalist policies, while in India, the govt lobbies for making personal money and for the good of the Foreigners, not for uplifting the life of the common man, for winning votes, But of course, the people of USA are Homo sapiens, and hence they have to choose for the politician for his policies and Indians, I dont know what species they belong to, may be Neanderthals and hence they vote for short term petty gains and for religion and shit.:notsure:
 

Bangalorean

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Yeah well the problem is present tax regime and its utilisation(in India) and the bureacracy hinders the economy more than it can help it.

The only govt work should be on infrastructure and others but is that what the govt is doing with our tax money?
The solution, as I always maintain, is to streamline and strategically "shave" the bureaucracy. Massive IT-enabled tracking of systems within the bureaucracy, intelligent tracking of funds, open and transparent computerized systems - hell, IT itself can make a massive difference.

The solution is not, can never be, to get rid of taxes!
 

panduranghari

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In the context which we are speaking of here, it is obvious that we are talking about a modern nation-state.
Modern nation state is a new concept too.

I still maintain taxes are essential for only 3 things; Law and order , National Security and Administration.

The state has to stick to these 3 things and leave us mortals to our devices. I assure you we will all be a lot better off.

Also we are going to see this within our lifetimes.
 

panduranghari

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The connection may not be direct but there has always been a connection between taxes and economy. Note that even in the most economically liberal countries like the USA government actions and policies still have bearing on their economy. The government sets up and operate the educational system which produces the professionals, engineers, entrepreneurs, etc. that makes the economy move; maintenance of law and order; the government sets up and operates the various regulation agencies; government lobbies foreign countries/governments for business opportunities for their private companies; the military ensures that the strategic economic interests of the country is protected; etc., all these government actions or bodies or policies are paid for by taxes...
I ask you this; in how many endeavours does the government benefit from the actions it takes?

The governmental apparatus can do everything it can within its power to ensure its needs are catered to, but there is very little chance of things getting better for the country and its citizens if the lives of its people are constrained by the demands of regulations. UK is a very good example of this conundrum.
 

panduranghari

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The solution, as I always maintain, is to streamline and strategically "shave" the bureaucracy. Massive IT-enabled tracking of systems within the bureaucracy, intelligent tracking of funds, open and transparent computerized systems - hell, IT itself can make a massive difference.

The solution is not, can never be, to get rid of taxes!
Give me an example where taxes can improve the overall life of the people (except the 3 - law and order/national security and administration)? I can give you a counter example. But I will wait for your reply first.
 

Zebra

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25 May, 2012, 05.51PM IST, PTI

Jairam Ramesh attacks subsidy on diesel and LPG, wants its phased out


NEW DELHI: In the midst of uproar over hike in petrol prices, Rural Development Minister Jairam Ramesh today attacked the policy of subsidising diesel, kerosene and LPG and suggested that a roadmap be chalked out for phasing it out as the needy are not benefited.

"In our country if we combine diesel, Kerosene and LPG, Rs 1,90,000 crore is the amount of subsidy given. The budget of the entire Rural Development and Drinking Water ministries in comparison is Rs 99,000 crore," Ramesh told reporters here.

"What kind of country is this? For development of rural areas Rs 99,000 crore and such heavy subsidy for diesel SUVs. For defence we spend Rs 1,00,080 crore but give much more as subsidy," he added.

Ramesh, while responding to a question on Rs 7.5 hike in petrol price, said taxes had to be imposed on sale of petrol so that development work could be carried out in the country.

"Where does the tax go? Where does the money come for NREGA? Where does the money come for Prime Minister's Gramin Sadak Yojana? It comes from tax," he said.

At the same time, he said, subsidy should only be given to those families which are poor and for whom it is important. He added that there were many in the country who were getting subsidy benefits without really needing them.

"There are many lower and middle income families which use LPG, but there are many rich, including myself who get subsidy on LPG cylinders despite not needing it. There is a subsidy of Rs 503 on every LPG cylinder," Ramesh said.

"I don't say that subsidies should be immediately scrapped. No Government is that insensitive. But a roadmap for the next two three years should be formed, because in such conditions economic development is not possible," he said.

Ramesh also said that 20 per cent of the diesel sold in the country was used for running SUVs while 40 per cent kerosene was adulterated.

Jairam Ramesh attacks subsidy on diesel and LPG, wants its phased out - The Economic Times
 

thakur_ritesh

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25 May, 2012, 05.51PM IST, PTI

Jairam Ramesh attacks subsidy on diesel and LPG, wants its phased out

Jairam Ramesh attacks subsidy on diesel and LPG, wants its phased out - The Economic Times
Good, Jairam is taking the bull by the horns, but more importantly we need a government which can do the same irrespective of what the allies, the congress and the opposition have to say, otherwise again the petrol consumers will be ripped apart with another huge hike as the deficit pile up is allowed to happen.

With that, next ought to be the reforms, 8 years wait has been too long a wait. Time to move on.
 

Bangalorean

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Give me an example where taxes can improve the overall life of the people (except the 3 - law and order/national security and administration)? I can give you a counter example. But I will wait for your reply first.
I actually agree with you that the three categories that you outlined are the reasons for tax collections. But then, "administration" is a very broad term. So is "law and order".

Law and order includes police, traffic police, internal intelligence, courts, judges, government lawyers and prosecutors, etc.

Administration includes town planning authorities like BBMP/BDA, tax collection agencies like IT dept., regulatory authorities like TRAI and thousand more, education policy framing, auditors and inspectors, etc.
 

anoop_mig25

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25 May, 2012, 05.51PM IST, PTI

Jairam Ramesh attacks subsidy on diesel and LPG, wants its phased out


NEW DELHI: In the midst of uproar over hike in petrol prices, Rural Development Minister Jairam Ramesh today attacked the policy of subsidising diesel, kerosene and LPG and suggested that a roadmap be chalked out for phasing it out as the needy are not benefited.

"In our country if we combine diesel, Kerosene and LPG, Rs 1,90,000 crore is the amount of subsidy given. The budget of the entire Rural Development and Drinking Water ministries in comparison is Rs 99,000 crore," Ramesh told reporters here.

"What kind of country is this? For development of rural areas Rs 99,000 crore and such heavy subsidy for diesel SUVs. For defence we spend Rs 1,00,080 crore but give much more as subsidy," he added.

Ramesh, while responding to a question on Rs 7.5 hike in petrol price, said taxes had to be imposed on sale of petrol so that development work could be carried out in the country.

"Where does the tax go? Where does the money come for NREGA? Where does the money come for Prime Minister's Gramin Sadak Yojana? It comes from tax," he said.

At the same time, he said, subsidy should only be given to those families which are poor and for whom it is important. He added that there were many in the country who were getting subsidy benefits without really needing them.

"There are many lower and middle income families which use LPG, but there are many rich, including myself who get subsidy on LPG cylinders despite not needing it. There is a subsidy of Rs 503 on every LPG cylinder," Ramesh said.

"I don't say that subsidies should be immediately scrapped. No Government is that insensitive. But a roadmap for the next two three years should be formed, because in such conditions economic development is not possible," he said.

Ramesh also said that 20 per cent of the diesel sold in the country was used for running SUVs while 40 per cent kerosene was adulterated.

Jairam Ramesh attacks subsidy on diesel and LPG, wants its phased out - The Economic Times
then why doesnt he demands same within his upa2 within parliament and aslo all those disesl car those driven by PM/SG/RG ETC ETC..../ SHOULD BE FIRST ROLLED BACKED
 

Zebra

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Give a man to eat and he will eat for the day. Teach him a trade and he will eat for life. You are talking about institutionalized "bheekh"!
YB,
It is not bheekh, it is government's duty and the citizen's right to get such support.

What you are saying is about unemployed or uneducated or untrained people, there are government's programs for them.
Right in front of my house there is a private institute funded by central government. They provide training for free. But still that is not enough.

Few years back I saw one article in local news paper, the state government asked to apply for some kind of job and the requirement was for only 25 people and most funny thing was more than 200000 people applied for that.
May be if we give more training, it will end-up like, 250000 people will apply for that.

I am not saying training is not important. It does have it's own importance.

But here the issue is for unemployed people and the people who do have some kind of job or work but still their income is not enough. They should get the benefit too.

Government do spend billions for poor people.
But again the famous quote of our ex-PM, something like- government spends one rupee for people but only 15-20 NP reaches in their hand.
So better stop these waste of money and it is the time to think for some other and batter way.

Anyway, may be I am wrong.
 
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asianobserve

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I ask you this; in how many endeavours does the government benefit from the actions it takes?

The governmental apparatus can do everything it can within its power to ensure its needs are catered to, but there is very little chance of things getting better for the country and its citizens if the lives of its people are constrained by the demands of regulations. UK is a very good example of this conundrum.

Agree on the stifling effect (on entrepreneurs) of too much regulations, but that's for "too much." There is always a balance that must be maintained lest human greed (which I believe is instinctive - something to do with our animal side) will wreck havoc on the country and the weak will be at the mercy of the strong.
 
Last edited:

Zebra

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then why doesnt he demands same within his upa2 within parliament and aslo all those disesl car those driven by PM/SG/RG ETC ETC..../ SHOULD BE FIRST ROLLED BACKED

What can I say about this? :hmm:
 

Mad Indian

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Add one more poll option. Its is not even subsidy to begin with:fyeah:
 
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Ray

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It is not institutionalised bheek that one is concerned about.


It is the institutionalised fraud in the name of the so called 'Am admi' that one is worried about.
 

Ray

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Bringing tears to Indians' eyes

Jan 21st 2011, 14:00 by S.D. | LONDON





..

HEADLINES about the Indian economy—particularly in the international press—have in recent times been dominated by excitement about near double-digit growth and speculation about when (and whether) India is on track to start growing faster than China. But domestically, (and now elsewhere, too) the big economic—and increasingly political—issue is a familiar one: runaway inflation.


The Indian press is obsessively following the price of onions, which saw a massive spike at the end of last year and the beginning of this one. On Twitter, Indians have noted sarcastically that at one point last week, the prices of a kilo of onions, a litre of petrol and a bottle of beer (presumably in some places, since alcohol taxes vary a lot by state because of state-level taxes) were all the same. Onions get a lot of attention in India partly because many people believe (perhaps rightly, I can't claim to be sure) that they're one of the things that even the poorest Indians buy (along with rice or wheat, cooking oil and salt). There's a stereotypical image of a very poor person in India subsisting on a couple of rotis, a pinch of salt, and some raw onions for flavour. (Actually the stereotype of really dire poverty is that meal, minus even the onions—"two dry rotis with a pinch of salt" is the North Indian shorthand for being in really dire straits). So the idea of onions becoming absurdly pricey has a certain political charge.

And onion prices do reflect a broader trend. Food inflation is in double digits, and overall wholesale-price inflation (WPI, which, rather oddly, is the measure policymakers in the country follow) is in the high single-digits. December's annual WPI inflation rate was 8.4%, up from 7.5% in November. This makes India something of an anomaly globally. In rich countries (with the possible exception of Britain), deflation remains the bigger worry, but India's inflation is also substantially higher than in other emerging economies.

It's worth noting, though, that for all the noise around inflation in India recently, it's not as though overall inflation has spiked all of a sudden. The recent inflation figures are in fact relatively low, at least compared with the rest of last year. December's 8.4% WPI inflation was in fact the second-lowest of last year; from March to July inflation was over 10%. So in a sense, perhaps the real question ought not to be why inflation is high now, but why India seems to have chronically high inflation.

Kalpana Kochhar, a senior official at the IMF's Asia desk argues that India is a chronically supply-constrained economy, with chronic excess demand. In the course of the economic cycle, therefore, price pressures tend to be exaggerated. It's worth noting that in the middle of 2009, Indian policymakers were debating whether the country was likely to fall into persistent deflation. WPI inflation was in fact negative year-on-year in June and July last year, and below 2% for every month between March and September. So rather than call India a persistently high-inflation economy, it may be better to think of it as a country where inflation is relatively more volatile through the business cycle than in other countries.

Some excellent historical perspective can be found in this speech made in September last year by Deepak Mohanty, the executive director of the Reserve Bank of India. (That speech is also a great primer on how Indian WPI inflation is calculated; Mr Mohanty was making it soon after the basket was revised. Among other changes, the weighting of food products in the basket used to calculate the WPI was reduced last year to 24.3% from 26.9%.)

Mr Mohanty notes that the recent period of high inflation is not exactly historically unprecedented, though to be fair it is clearly not the norm.

"
Going by the current experience of 5-6 months of double digit inflation as high, one can trace 9 such episodes in the last 56 years. Out of these 9 episodes, double digit inflation lasting beyond a year occurred on 5 occasions. The most prolonged one lasted for 30 months during October 1972 to March 1975. The last such high inflation was in the mid-1990s which lasted 15 months between March 1994 and May 1995."

It doesn't help that Indian agricultural output is very volatile, partly because of poor infrastructure, bad supply chains, poor storage facilities, and the like. This means that changes in weather conditions or other factors affecting output can lead to really large price fluctuations. In the case of onions, unseasonal rain in October that destroyed crops in Maharashtra appears to be the main culprit. It's worth noting, also, that India's consumer-price index has an much higher weight on food products compared with other countries, and CPI inflation has been running ahead of WPI inflation.

Mr Mohanty has a nifty table summarising the causes of the periods of high inflation. Drought features prominently. For the most recent episode, he also blames the rise in global commodity prices.

But it also appears to me that Indian policymakers tend to underestimate this trend. In April 2009, the governor of the country's central bank was quoted as saying that he expected WPI inflation to be at 4% in March 2010. In fact, it was 10.2% that month, and stayed at or above 10% in every month till July. And while the RBI does not formally target inflation, there are plenty who think that it has been too slow to tighten monetary policy. It has in fact been raising rates regularly since March last year, but only very gradually. Some reckon it should have tightened faster. The RBI is, of course, wary of choking off India's rapid recovery from the slowdown in growth during the global economic crisis. Its governor, D Subbarao, said on January 17th that "For the Reserve Bank the challenge is to calibrate monetary policy taking into account the demands of inflation management and the demand of supportive recovery".

Meanwhile, the usual problems with persistently high inflation are being felt, and not just by those buying onions. Indian banks are seeing rising loan-to-deposit ratios as savers move their money into perceived inflation hedges like gold and property. Bank deposits increased by 16.5% in the two weeks ended December 31 from a year earlier, lagging a 24.4% increase in lending, according to RBI data. "The shift of the Indian household sector from deposits to inflation hedges such as property and gold is creating a liquidity crunch in the banking sector that's unlikely to be solved in the near future," Kristine Li, senior director of Asia-Pacific credit strategy at Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc, told Bloomberg. "If banks' loan growth decelerates, asset quality concerns are likely to return."

More broadly, though, I sense that for all the sound and fury, the political tolerance for a period of high inflation has risen. I suspect this is to do with the fact that earlier episodes of high inflation in India occurred in an economy where income per head rose very sluggishly indeed. Now, with real rates of economic growth near 9%, and slower population growth than before, real incomes are rising fast enough that people are willing to put up with high inflation for some time. Of course, high inflation for a long period also risks damging the growth story. But for the moment it appears Indian policymakers are content to wait for short-term supply constraints to ease, while continuing to tighten roughly at the pace they've been doing. K.C. Chakrabarty, deputy governor of the RBI, said on January 11 that inflation was in a difficult situation but manageable.

As for onions, I noticed on my last trip to India around Christmas that the demand curve was, indeed, downward sloping. In several restaurants of the kind where one expects a plate of chopped onions, tomatoes and cucumbers to appear gratis with the main dish, the plate that did arrive was conspicuously devoid of the onions.

Indian inflation: Bringing tears to Indians' eyes | The Economist
 

Ray

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India among worst affected by food inflation: Report

NEW DELHI: Climbing food prices across Asia, especially India, Bangladesh, Nepal and Laos, might hamper and slow down by atleast five years the region's efforts to eradicate extreme poverty and hunger under the Millennium Development Goals (MDG), a UN ESCAP ( Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific) report has cautioned.

The report says India is among the most affected countries on account of rising food prices. According to it, this prevented more than 19 million people in the region, a good chunk of them Indian, from pulling themselves out of poverty last year. That should sound a warning call to the government which is battling rising food prices somewhat lackadaisically thus far.


India among worst affected by food inflation: Report - Economic Times
 

Ray

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Inflation's effect on the poor

N.S.VENKATARAMAN





The rising rate of inflation in the country may be a subject of animated economic discussion for the pundits and affluent people. But, for the poor families, it is a matter of life and death. In an inflationary economy, speculators and businessmen thrive, as the cost-push inflation gives them an excuse for increasing the cost of products and services. The real estate value and house rentals have gone up, educational institutions are increasing the fees beyond any reasonabl e level, and the cost of basic commodities like rice, pulses, edible oil, kerosene, etc., is steadily rising.

With inadequate earnings and nearly starving conditions, thousands of poor families are affected and driven to debts. Here, only the money lenders gain. The others can somehow make up. A survey amongst the cross-section of poor families readily indicates that many families now cook only on alternate days and the children are deprived of any nutritious food. In case of any ailment or sickness, most of them go without proper treatment as they just cannot afford to buy medicines or pay the doctors. If such conditions continue, it would inevitably happen that several poor families would be forced to discontinue even sending their children to school, as they cannot even afford to buy uniforms and notebooks for their children.

Helpless situation

Unfortunately, the government gives a feeling that it is helpless in tackling the inflationary issues. Obviously, the inflation is a man-made condition and is largely due to the inability of the government to frame and implement policies and programmes that would meet the challenges posed by such inflation. The corruption in the government machinery is adding to the woes of the poor as several of the government schemes meant to help them are being implemented at poor quality standards. Poor quality of materials supplied in ration shops and siphoning off of government funds earmarked for the poverty alleviation schemes are the ground realities.

All this has led to the widening of the gulf between the poor and the rich. If the government is not able to control inflation, why is it that it cannot improve the quality of the government machinery to ensure that at least the measures meant for the poor reach them and corruption is eradicated? The government should realise that the poor have nobody to defend them if the government were to fail in this task.



The Hindu : Open Page : Inflation’s effect on the poor
 

Ray

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Indian Inflation



On March 19, 2010, the Reserve Bank of India raised its benchmark reverse repurchase rate to 3.5% percent, after this rate touched record lows of 3.25%. The repurchase rate was raised to 5% from 4.75% as well, in an attempt to curb Indian inflation.

India's 2009-10 Economic Survey Report suggests a high double-digit increase in food inflation, with signs of inflation spreading to various other sectors as well. The Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank of India, however, expressed his optimism in March 2010 about an imminent easing of Indian wholesale price index-based inflation, on the back of falling oil and food prices.

For 2009, Indian inflation stood at 11.49% Y-o-Y. This rate reflects the general increase in prices, taking into account the purchasing power of the common man. According to the Economic Survey Report for 2009-10, economic growth decelerated to 6.7% in 2008-09, from 9% in 2007-08. The economy is expected to grow by 8.7% in 2010-11, with a return to a growth rate of 9% in 2011-12.



The Indian method for calculating inflation, the Wholesale Price Index, is different from the rest of world. Each week, the wholesale price of a set of 435 goods is calculated by the Indian government. Since these are wholesale prices, the actual prices paid by consumers are far higher.


In times of rising inflation, this also means that the cost of living increases are much higher for the populace. Cooking gas prices, for example, have increased by around 20% in 2008.

With most of India's vast population living close to or below the poverty line, inflation acts as a 'Poor Man's Tax'. This effect is amplified when food prices rise, since food represents more than half of the expenditure of this group.

The dramatic increase in inflation will have both economic and political implications for the government, with an election due within the year.

Economic growth in emerging markets has slowed but is far from over. With the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) alone accounting for more than 3 billion people, and with these people consuming more resources every year, it is likely that higher inflation rates will be with us for a good while yet - and that is worrying news for the government of India.

Indian Inflation | Economy Watch
 

Ray

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The above shows India is Shining! :taunt:
 

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