Frontier Infrastructure: Loopholes, Scenarios, etc., and Solutions

[SilentKiller]

Can we airlift bunkers?

We can build big bunkers, integrate them with massive gliders, tow them with transport airplanes, and guide them to mountain tops with RC controller.

heard of heavy lift helicopter which can do these stuff for construction and logging etc.
not sure they can perform at those heights though.

 

[pmaitra]

heard of heavy lift helicopter which can do these stuff for construction and logging etc.
not sure they can perform at those heights though.

Mil-26 won't go to the Karakorams (4000 - 6000 m). Mil-17 won't be able to lift enough weight.

 

[Ray]

Can we airlift bunkers?

We can build big bunkers, integrate them with massive gliders, tow them with transport airplanes, and guide them to mountain tops with RC controller.

Parts to include steel and quick drying cement have been airlifted (by helicopters) and then lugged manpack or by animals to include mules to the desired location.

Such bunkers are then fixed like Lego sets or Mecanno and hey presto, you have a bunker!

Believe it or not, it has been through many sorties of Cheetahs!

Expensive, but done when unavoidable.

 

[SilentKiller]

being to twang...i guess chinese will get nightmares if they attack from there...
anyhow because of indian nightmares only chinese are getting insecure and doing such stuff.

i know, considering current situation its good to remove bunkers with which there is issue, but sometimes if we offer an animal a piece of meat it might rip off full arm too.

 

[SilentKiller]

Mil-26 won't go to the Karakorams (4000 - 6000 m). Mil-17 won't be able to lift enough weight.

well i was thinking about this one...we need not buy they can lease them for these tasks...
Aerial crane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pmaitra]

Parts to include steel and quick drying cement have been airlifted (by helicopters) and then lugged manpack or by animals to include mules to the desired location.

Such bunkers are then fixed like Lego sets or Mecanno and hey presto, you have a bunker!

I was thinking of quick installation of bunkers. Let's say we already have acclimatized troops, in their garrisons in Leh. Then, we quickly air-lift the troops to the base camps, and then shower the gliders down, and the troops climb up. I an a matter of couple of days, we will have troops, ready, and secure in their bunkers.

BTW, I don't know why, I get this bizarre feeling with this metaphorical 'mule' thingy. Is there really no alternative to mules? Or we cannot afford enough helicopters?

 

[pmaitra]

well i was thinking about this one...we need not buy they can lease them for these tasks...
Aerial crane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check this out: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...lo-vs-boeing-ch47f-chinook-31.html#post608166

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Only by mules one can transport all the materials up there, Once troops made basic infrastructure one can have a helipad then, then one can start delivering ready made bunker and Pill boxes..

I was thinking of quick installation of bunkers. Let's say we already have acclimatized troops, in their garrisons in Leh. Then, we quickly air-lift the troops to the base camps, and then shower the gliders down, and the troops climb up. I an a matter of couple of days, we will have troops, ready, and secure in their bunkers.

BTW, I don't now why, I get this bizarre feeling with this metaphorical 'mule' thingy. Is there really no alternative to mules? Or we cannot afford enough helicopters?

 

[arnabmit]

Interesting solution for manned/RC/unmanned logistic chain... Goodbye mules!

[video=youtube_share;s-mr5I657GU]http://youtu.be/s-mr5I657GU[/video]

[video=youtube_share;Zj95SHZCkbM]http://youtu.be/Zj95SHZCkbM[/video]

Lockheed Martin/Kaman K-MAX

General characteristics
Crew: 1/unmanned
Capacity: 6,000 lb (2,722 kg) external load
Length: 51 ft 10 in (15.8 m)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft 3 in (14.7m)
Height: 13 ft 7 in (4.14 m)
Empty weight: 5,145 lb (2,334 kg)
Useful load: 6,855 lb (3,109 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,000 lb (5,443 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Honeywell T53-17 turboshaft, 1341 kW (1,800 shp), flat rated to 1118 kW (1500 shp) for take-off / 1350 shp in flight[28][29])

Performance
Maximum speed: 100 knots (185.2 km/h)
Cruise speed: 80 knots (148.2 km/h)
Range: 267 nm (494.5 km)

@pmaitra @Kunal Biswas @Ray

 

[DivineHeretic]

Right, for the forward and sub-forward bases, although, we would need to have our Sukhois up (from Chandigarh?) to get air-superiority. I heard Panagarh and Tezpur are being beefed up with Sukhois? Can anyone confirm?

The 2 squadron and the 102 squadron are permanently based in Assam, at Tezpur and Chabua respectively. These two are Su-30MKI squadrons.
Infact Chabua is totally a different airbase since its rennovation. Looks otherworldly at times.

The IAF was in a tussle with Civil aviation over control of Tezpur airport. There are very few flights to the airport and Guwahati airport is just 3 hours by road. Thus the IAF wants it to be transferred to their control. The issue died down some 4-5 years back, but no decision has been taken.

Whenever I go to Tezpur, it is not uncommon to hear the MKI conducting flight operations.

 

[DivineHeretic]

@Kunal,

Refurbishing of border defences, to inclue airbases, as I see it, is to be visualised by a Strategic Analysis for the next 20 years.

It can't be built in a jiffy as all would appreciate.

The bases, its employability, kitting in all its ramifications, stocking, the communication network, the defence of such bases have to be enhanced incrementally without causing alarm to others.

It appears that whatever we are doing or do, is basically reactive and knee jerk. I maybe wrong!

I cant't say about the Ladakh sector, but in NE, the upgrades to military airbases we are seeing now were being talked about in military circles as far back as 2004. The Tezpur Airbase upgrade, which enabled the deployment for the Flanker, was being talked about by locals in 2005. Of course no one knew which plane was to be based there then.

The biggest surprise was Chabua. There were rumours in late 2006-07 that it would be up modernised. But even then the locals were surprised when the upgrade began in 2009-10. Even till before the Su-30 deployment to the base was announced, none of us believed that it would house the monster. But now another rumour is doing rounds that BMs are based there. (Even ULFA made such a statement).

As such, I strongly believe that the modernisation and upgrade of the Airbases in the NorthEast atleast is part of a long term plan. The airfields to be activated were inspected by IAF officials many years before they were activated.

Btw, I'm certain 30 squadron, the Rhinos were indeed raised in Tezpur, but its current location is listed as Pune.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Can we airlift bunkers?

We can build big bunkers, integrate them with massive gliders, tow them with transport airplanes, and guide them to mountain tops with RC controller.

Or we could use these...

A 77,000 pound jumbo drop test vehicle was extracted out of a C-17 at 25,000 feet.-The next airdrop is an 85,000 pound drop scheduled for 2011. The test program will culminate with a 90,000 pound airdrop scheduled for fall 2011.-"We have to do this incrementally to see how the parachutes hold up," Mr. Hines said. "The ultimate goal is 90,000 pounds."-

We could deploy a 40 ton fully equiped bunker using this system, so long as it can fit inside the C-17. How's that for heavy airdrop?

Aircrew breaks C-17 record with heaviest airdrop

 

[DivineHeretic]

being to twang...i guess chinese will get nightmares if they attack from there...
anyhow because of indian nightmares only chinese are getting insecure and doing such stuff.

i know, considering current situation its good to remove bunkers with which there is issue, but sometimes if we offer an animal a piece of meat it might rip off full arm too.

The problem with Arunachal Pradesh and the existing road network is that IA is completely dependent on early warning to defend border areas, including Tawang. In case of a surprise attack by PLA, the IA will have to move assets from Assam plains, and it will take as much as 3-4 days to reach the site, if weather remains favourable.

Now, again due to the fact that all roads in Tawang are very slim and winding, any attack on the road, even a landslide or a damaged vehicle will completely stall the convoy, creating a killing field for the PLAAF.

Of course other option is to use Helis, but in adverse weather they cant operate, and without any other means of supply, these forces would not be able to operate for more than 48-72 hours without heli support.

It is a very good point you put out that multiple roads should connect Lah, but it must be done in NE also.

 

[SilentKiller]

The problem with Arunachal Pradesh and the existing road network is that IA is completely dependent on early warning to defend border areas, including Tawang. In case of a surprise attack by PLA, the IA will have to move assets from Assam plains, and it will take as much as 3-4 days to reach the site, if weather remains favourable.

Now, again due to the fact that all roads in Tawang are very slim and winding, any attack on the road, even a landslide or a damaged vehicle will completely stall the convoy, creating a killing field for the PLAAF.

Of course other option is to use Helis, but in adverse weather they cant operate, and without any other means of supply, these forces would not be able to operate for more than 48-72 hours without heli support.

It is a very good point you put out that multiple roads should connect Lah, but it must be done in NE also.

i went there few years back, lots of army preparation but roads r bit bad during bad weather...
but way army has fortified twang sector its looks formidable.
True, we need more connectivity with north-east, but only issue i see there is that geographically we have our hands tied, there is narrow strip of land. so only 1 max NH can go through, other wise we can made road via bhutan to arunachal but still.
best bet for n-e india is that we have lots of bases and the area there is huge, we can have number of depots, airfields in all states.
we can increase road n/w in n-e states, but connectivity via wb is only thing (road/rail) we have.

 

[pmaitra]

i went there few years back, lots of army preparation but roads r bit bad during bad weather...
but way army has fortified twang sector its looks formidable.
True, we need more connectivity with north-east, but only issue i see there is that geographically we have our hands tied, there is narrow strip of land. so only 1 max NH can go through, other wise we can made road via bhutan to arunachal but still.
best bet for n-e india is that we have lots of bases and the area there is huge, we can have number of depots, airfields in all states.
we can increase road n/w in n-e states, but connectivity via wb is only thing (road/rail) we have.

Once past Se La Pass, are there two roads, one going North and one going North-West?

 

[SilentKiller]

Once past Se La Pass, are there two roads, one going North and one going North-West?

yup, to sikkim and assam
or am wrong!!

 

[pmaitra]

yup, to sikkim and assam
or am wrong!!

No, I mean once going North to Tawang, you cross Se La Pass. Then the roads splits into two. One goes straight North to Bomdi La, while the other goes North West towards Bhutan Border.

27.509577° 92.094947° - Google Maps

 

[SilentKiller]

No, I mean once going North to Tawang, you cross Se La Pass. Then the roads splits into two. One goes straight North to Bomdi La, while the other goes North West towards Bhutan Border.

27.509577° 92.094947° - Google Maps

thanks, didn't knew much about that, but we were discussing about highway from west bengal to north east states that one only na NH 31.
and we cannot make 2 there

 

[Ray]

BTW, I don't know why, I get this bizarre feeling with this metaphorical 'mule' thingy. Is there really no alternative to mules? Or we cannot afford enough helicopters?

Yes, men!

 

[Ray]

Interesting solution for manned/RC/unmanned logistic chain... Goodbye mules!



General characteristics
Crew: 1/unmanned
Capacity: 6,000 lb (2,722 kg) external load
Length: 51 ft 10 in (15.8 m)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft 3 in (14.7m)
Height: 13 ft 7 in (4.14 m)
Empty weight: 5,145 lb (2,334 kg)
Useful load: 6,855 lb (3,109 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,000 lb (5,443 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Honeywell T53-17 turboshaft, 1341 kW (1,800 shp), flat rated to 1118 kW (1500 shp) for take-off / 1350 shp in flight[28][29])

Performance
Maximum speed: 100 knots (185.2 km/h)
Cruise speed: 80 knots (148.2 km/h)
Range: 267 nm (494.5 km)

@pmaitra @Kunal Biswas @Ray

What would be its service ceiling?