Frontier Infrastructure: Loopholes, Scenarios, etc., and Solutions

[Ray]

To be frank, I am no scientist.

What works, works and what does not, I cry an ocean!

I have operated at 6666m. Have no idea of what it is in feet!

Never bothered about the temperature or wind. I could not control that.

Have had no complaints!

Maybe i was lucky and the Almighty liked me!

No offence, you must be right, but I have no explanations as a layman who came out from the Cold!

 

[Ray]

OK Googled

6666 m = 21870.07874 Feet

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...1N7YJg_PjSaJJZzg3zsJIbw&bvm=bv.45960087,d.bmk

 

[SamwiseTheBrave]

Depth of Chinese planning revealed - The China Post

we really need a comprehensive strategy for the challenges given in the above article !

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra

First of all Environmentalists would never allow it to happen. they will even rope in some international bodies and raise hue and cry in UN.

Yes, and the moment they start complaining, send them off to Siachen so that they can appreciate the hardships the people are undergoing there, and why we need to make it easier to deliver supplies.

Second, at -50 to -20 temperature year round, one cannot use heavy machinery. Due to extreme cold, metal undergoes molecular restructuring where Inch thick metal plates become brittle like 8mm glass, fuel and hydraulic fluids become thick like molasses and renders all machinery useless.

That is not a problem at all, or, that problem has already been solved. We can operate heavy machinery at those temperatures. Check these out:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ng-antarctic-running-out-time.html#post229498
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ng-antarctic-running-out-time.html#post229513

The problem is getting them up there to start preparing the airstrip.

 

[arnabmit]

Status Report on Strategic Roads & Constructions:
(Collected from all over the net from texts, pictures and travelogues)

Metal 2 Lane Road to AFS Heliport, Siachen : Approx 35Km pending out of 130Km

Asphalt surfacing of Khardung La Road : Yet to start (total 90Km)

Saser to Murgo Road : Approx 40Km pending out of 80Km

Zanskar River Valley Road (Leh to Padum) : Approx 40Km pending out of 160Km

Road from Padum to Shinkula (Shingo La) : Approx 30Km pending out of 80Km

Shinkula Tunnel : Yet to start (6Km)

Rohtang Tunnel : Approx 5Km pending out of 9Km

Z-Morh Tunnel : Just started (6Km)

Zojila Tunnel : Yet to start (13Km)

Basohli Bridge : Approx 25% done

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As @pmaitra, renamed the thread and added the option of solution for our defense, here goes my view..

1. Get the basics of defense --------- >

A. Tools to fight ( Tanks, Gunships, Helos, Arty, Special tools for infantry to fight in that terrain that is from basics )
B. Infrastructure, ( Road and Rail ( Meter / Short gauge ), Bunkers of all kind, Airbases, Helipads, Barriers, Mine fields etc )
C. Surveillance, ( Ground / Air surveillance, Intelligence gathering aircraft / Vehicle / platform / Human source )
D. Pre-Planned Strategy ( One should plan when and where to strike and how deep a counter attack should be done to stop further thrust of enemy )

2. Get Practical --------- >

India - China border are of mountains, Some are narrow and some are large valleys, One should always keep in mind about locations of enemy reserves and transport infrastructure specially of China, If such nodes are hit PLA machines and men will be stopped for time being, China infrastructure in Indian media is ' Overrated ' China dont have many roads ( Though which are made can take 100tons and quite wide ) nor proper Railway nodes close to our borders, the roads have tunnels and bridges which are very vulnerable to PGM / Cruise missiles / Bombers / tactical BM ( Everything ( Excluding Nukes ) should be thrown off to cut of these nodes as these are vital for our success ), If hit it will delay all kinds of supplies hence more time for us to conduct counter attacks.

There is also a very good advantage over TAR region that Long range SAM are ineffective due to valleys, TAR is vast and there are many ways to get inside with fighters jets hence Chinese infrastructure more vulnerable, China also lack Airbase compare to India all along LAC, Its major bases are far east beyond Burma, though because they are over TAR there surveillance is better than us..

Bottom line is, Snatch your Enemy Tactical Positions and at the same time deny its reinforcements and supplies, force your enemy into submission, In case of attack on India, We must suffocate our enemy and push it back to a distance from where we can be confident that we are well dug in and enemy cannot carry another large scale thrust..



Some of my research on eastern front ( N.E area ) ============>>

Equipment of both Armies over Eastern Front ( Only N.E ) : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/16694-indian-army-vs-pla-lac-information-thread.html
PLAAF preparation over Eastern sector along LAC ( Only N.E ) :http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/military-aviation/17393-plaaf-offensive-combat-readiness-against-india.html

 

[arnabmit]

New location (suggestion) for IAF Kashmir HQ

Challenges with current IAF Bases:

• Chinshul, Fukche & DBO air bases are within LR Mortar/Artillery strike distance of LAC
• Jammu, Rajouri, Punch, Kargil air bases are within LR Mortar/Artillery strike distance of LOC
• Nyoma, when activated, will be within MBRL/CM strike distance of LAC
• Srinagar, Koil, Thoise air bases are within MBRL/CM strike distance of LOC
• Leh airbase, lone survivor, though safely snuggled, will bear the brunt of SEAD/DEAD operations by enemy AF

Solution:
A new airbase in Padum Google Maps

Advantages:

• Same altitude as Leh airbase: 3500mt from sea level
• Safely snuggled within a circle of 2000mt wall of mountains
• 2 locations available for 3km airstrips (Southeast watershed and Eastern bank of the river)
• Easier logistical reach once Rohtand & Shinkula Tunnel gets operational
• Road access from Kargil, Manali and Leh (once Zanskar valley road becomes operational in 2-3 years)
• Centrally located in Ladakh, approc 180Km from all borders, LAC and LOC.

@Kunal Biswas @pmaitra @Ray @Decklander

 

[Decklander]

A large number of abandoned airstrips in India are also the war time satelite airfields. these are never used by fighters during any type of peace time excercises but kept and maintained in a manner that they can be activated within 24 hrs. We have over 360 such airstrips all across India of which majority actually lies close to chinese border in central and NE India.

 

[Decklander]

See for yourself these links and see how saturated the China border is with respect to deployment of air assets. Every airport is a probable fighter base while abandoned airstrips are hidden fighter bases.
File:Airports and seaports map.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Category:Abandoned airfields in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Decklander]

A very large network of airstrips exists noth of Lucknow and along Rajasthan border. These are the airstrips which were built by eastwhile Rajas of these small states.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Will we get more number of fighter jets?

LCA, Su-30 MKI, Rafael........

 

[Decklander]

In wartimes it is important to save your assets and war fighters are crucial assets. They must be disbursed in very small numbers to various a/fs to avoid being taken out by enemy missiles. We have such a luxury but China does not have it in Tibet. In 1971, during Battle of Longewal, PAF had no clue that Hunters were operating from an abandoned airstrip. We had deployed IAF from various such airfields which Pak thought never existed.
In case of China border, we vastly outnumber them in the number of airfields but we keep harping that we lack infra. The truth is that even after investing so heavily into Tibet, china is no where in terms of access to its remote locations as IA & IAF are. We have so called mule tracks to nearly every area against chinese which we do not even recognise but are jeepable. Chinese invested heavily into Tibet and created infra which can be very easily destructed. But same is not true about Indian Infra.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A more clear picture of known airbases..

 

[sayareakd]

I think we should put more money on something like CLGM missile to fire non line of sight, specially in mountains, put them on bullet motor cycle and take it to remote area and then fire it on enemy. May be air bust mode CLGM for anti personal attack.

 

[Decklander]

A large number of members have argued that China can fly across Myanmar to attack NE India.
I hope this map will put to rest such speculation. Also please have a look at the elevation of these airfields w.r.t that of chinese airfields. The pix will become astoundingly clear.

 

[arnabmit]

Trans Pir Panjal Road Tunnel (suggestion)

A proposed tunnel to increase all around all year road connectivity in Kashmir.

Key Features

• 12-15km long tunnel to underpass average 5500-6500mt high Pir Panjal Range
• Year long connectivity between Kashmir Valley and Ladakh
• Entry and Exit portals at approx 3500mt above sea level
• West portal near Danga, East portal near Reru
• Srinagar to Leh distance shortened by almost half
• Srinagar to Leh without touching LOC or Manali-Leh roundabout route

ZOOM

Key

Yellow Line = Approach Road
Red Line = Proposed tunnel

Locations

1. Bandarkoot
2. Jangalwar
3. Padder
4. Chishot
5. Danga
6. Reru
7. Padum
8. Zozar
9. Phey

 

[pmaitra]

What should be done to connect Nubra and Shyok Valleys:

 

[DivineHeretic]

See for yourself these links and see how saturated the China border is with respect to deployment of air assets. Every airport is a probable fighter base while abandoned airstrips are hidden fighter bases.
File:Airports and seaports map.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Category:Abandoned airfields in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nearly none of the abandoned airbases can operate as fighter bases, except if they've been upgraded to be able to maintain fighter sorties (there are some where infra have been upgraded to allow fighter ops but no fighter activity has occured).

The modern fighter is not a 2gen AC like the hunter that can operate from a abandoned airfield. It would take a lot of activity to make an abandoned airfield fit for fighter use, too much to be completed after the commencement of war.

Firstly the the runway must be capable of supporting Fighter ops, not as in load bearing capacity but in terms of uniformity of the runway. It must be metalled and flat, which sadly vey few of abandoned runways are. The SU-30 in particular is very prone to FOD (foreign object damage) and requires extra precaution for takeoff and landing. The IAF will not risk it in a unprepared airstrip.

The next is the massive maintainance and resouce requirement of maintaining a fighter group in an aifield. The SU-30mki has an internal fuel capacity of 5000kg. Assuming even 4-6 fighters in an airfield, it will require 20-30,000 kg(i.e. 20-30 tons) of fuel for a single sortie. Now add to that each AC carries as much as 8tons of payload. Even assuming 4 tons per sortie, that comes to around 16-24 tons per sortie. A total of 36-54 tons per sortie even by conservative estimates.

If these airfilds are not connected/accessible by roads, as in the majority of the cases, you'll need to fly multiple IL-76/C-17 sorties to the airfiled for every group sortie the fighter unit makes. And in wartime, a group will most definitely make multiple sorties. Thats not sustainable in a war, especially when the IAF transport fleet will also be heavily commited to troop deployment and air supply.

I've not even added the maintainance requirements to this, the support instruments nor the daily requirements of individuals posted at the airfield. It was possible in Longewala because the airfield was accessible by supply trucks.

The airfields can, with large improvements, be used as a staging base for launching attacks, but it cannot function as a base regularly operating fighter AC. Period. Unless of course, you're speaking of the USAF with 220 odd C-17s and 100 odd C-5, in which case they'd be able to create a full fledged airbase in the middle of nowhere.

 

[arnabmit]

Tunnel is not feasible IMHO in that location due to glaciers. However a road is already under construction over the mountain to reach the Syok valley. Sasoma-Saser Road

What should be done to connect Nubra and Shyok Valleys:

 

[pmaitra]

Tunnel is not feasible IMHO in that location due to glaciers. However a road is already under construction over the mountain to reach the Syok valley.

I beg to differ. I think a tunnel under the glacier will be less prone to blockages than one over the glacier.

Given an infinite amount of money, the entire length of the tunnel should be built under the mountain.