From freedom fighters to terrorists: US attitude shift

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by pmaitra, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    From freedom fighters to terrorists: Identity of Boston bombers shifts US attitudes to Chechnya

    [​IMG]
    Tsarnaev brothers (FBI/AFP)

    The revelation that the two brothers suspected to be behind the Boston Marathon attack are ethnic Chechens has led the US establishment to perform a rapid volte-face towards the previously sympathetically-viewed region and cause.

    Through the two separatist wars fought by Chechen militants in the 1990s, the standard US portrayal of the restive region focused on the David and Goliath scale of the adversaries, the ‘denial’ to Chechens of their right to self-determination, and the abuse of human rights.

    In the wake of Monday’s attack, a new sinister international image of Chechnya has emerged.

    “Chechnya region is cauldron of Islamic militancy” proclaimed the headline in the New York Daily News. For LA Times, it was “Festering Chechen militancy”, while the Washington Times went with “Chechnya is a hotbed of Islamic extremism”.

    USA Today, Fox News and the Washington Post all simply picked “Chechnya is a breeding ground for terrorism”, as their header.

    The international experts now offered a different narrative of the conflict that has bedeviled Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and cost thousands of lives as well as draining billions of dollars from the budget.

    "The [second Chechen conflict in 1999] war initially began as a nationalist war but very, very quickly metastasized into something that looks much more like the radical Salafi-Jihadi movements we've seen in other regions around the world," Christopher Swift, a professor of National Security at Georgetown University, told ABC News.

    "The movement that's emerged from the 15 years of war is very radical, it's very virulent, it's very nasty”.

    [​IMG]
    Terrorist Salman Raduyev
    , one of the leaders of armed Chechen groups, with his followers at an election rally in Grozny in January 1997. (RIA Novosti)​


    "The Chechen jihadi network is very extensive," Middle East analyst Walid Phares told Fox News. "They have a huge network inside Russia and Chechnya."

    “United States shut its eyes to Chechen terrorism,” said former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani.

    No longer were the Tsarnaev brothers victims of oppression, simply looking for a better life in America as refugees.

    "They could well be supported by a significant international network," John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, told Fox News.

    Evan Kohlmann, chairman of Flashpoint Global Partners, a New York-based international security consulting firm said, “these groups [the two men may have belonged to] can be just as radical as anything Al Qaeda puts out."

    Many newspapers also recalled the hostage-taking incidents that ended in tragedy at the musical Nord Ost in Moscow in 2002, and a school in Beslan in 2004.

    [​IMG]
    A terrorist killed during the hostage release operation at the Dubrovka Theater. (RIA Novosti)

    Indeed, the National Interest foreign policy magazine went as far as to declare that Vladimir Putin’s Chechnya policy “has been vindicated” and that “President Obama needs to call Putin ASAP.” For all about turns, these abrupt attempts to give more context to the Boston Marathon bombing and redefine Chechens as ‘dangerous enemies of Western civilization’ may not even be particularly relevant. While the Tsarnaev brothers appeared to have a very strong sense of ethnic identity, there is little so far to suggest that they were a cell in some shadowy terror group. In fact, the two had barely spent any of their lives in their homeland.

    While the new portrayal of Chechnya as a terror base, may not be any more three-dimensional or correct than its previous incarnation as a tragic land denied its independence, few would deny that violence, oppression and violations of human rights have characterized the history of Russians and Chechens living in the same state.

    But the quick abandonment of sympathy towards Chechens, and sanctimony towards the Kremlin in large swathes of the US establishment prove this: it is one thing to castigate a nation overseas for its approach to terrorism, but it is something else to encounter it face to face, when citizens of your own country die in acts of calculated violence.

    Source: From freedom fighters to terrorists: Identity of Boston bombers shifts US attitudes to Chechnya — RT News
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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  4. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Its war We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
    Winston Churchill

    I dont ever expect peace.



    Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace

    2013.04.19 (Khales, Iraq) - Mujahideen attacks on rival mosques leave nine dead.
    2013.04.19 (Watertown, MA, USA) - Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.
    2013.04.18 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Children are among nearly three dozen people at a coffee shop obliterated by a Shahid suicide bomber.
    2013.04.18 (Garissa, Kenya) - al-Shabaab gunmen burst into a hotel and mow down eight patrons.
    2013.04.18 (Hyderabad, Pakistan) - A secular politician is assassinated by religious radicals.
    2013.04.17 (Bangalore, India) - The Indian Mujahideen detonate a bomb outside a Hindu party office.
     
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  5. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Boston bombings: Police in shoot out with gunmen outside Boston

    Watch for another taunt from Russia now. They did rub it in regarding al Qaeda and CIA role in nurturing them in Afghanistan in an attempt to bleed former Soviet Union. Chechen trouble always had involvement of these elements.... Like bin Laden came to haunt US, Chechens now....
    Hope somebody knock some sense into these CIA mofos there is nothing like 'good terrorists, bad terrorists' as it is played out in Pakistan where they avoid targeting Kashmir militants.
     
  6. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The Chechens fought always. Method of dealing with this form of terrorism was not invented in the Soviet Union, and in the tsaris Russia. Не by methods of force, and the development of the economy of the region. Similar practice of the Soviet Union began to deploy to Afghanistan. These peoples alien to the concept of "democracy" in the form, as is Western civilization. The U.S. tried to do the opposite. This is the main mistake. You can be free, but when you're hungry - you don't need freedom.
     
  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Golden words. There are many in the US who are, in their minds, still battling the "evil commies," while Jihadis are blowing their people off.
     
  8. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    Rhetoric is all fine. But if you look around, you will see how the patently flawed US policies have bred Frankenstein. Hafeez Saeeds, Bin Ladens, Chechens... etc In end, they all come home to roost.
    It is high time the CIA shed some arrogance and owned up to their mistakes and apologised to the US people.
    Their ridiculous policy of 'Our Terrorists, Their Terrorists' is causing havoc across the world. India is a victim of their skewed policies in Pakistan.

    They should realise that lighting a fire is easy, but not preventing its spread.
    There is only this long one can ride a tiger without being threatened in turn by it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
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  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Hehehe, the US understands only when it feels the pain at home. India is all too familiar with this when the US bought its ally's version of freedom fighter and not terrorists in Kashmir.

    Well as they say, der aaye durust aaye.
     
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  10. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    It's funny how some would immediately point a finger at the US for the radicalization of Islam. In the first place it was not the US that radicalized it, it has been slowly being radicalized by Islamic nuts in the Middle East even before the US rode on its wave. Secondly, it was the USSR that blew up the Afghan War by invading Afghanistan. Maybe we all forget that the World was still engaged in a Cold War at that time and the reaction of the US in trying to dislodge the Soviets from Afghanistan by all means was anything but unexpected. Had the Soviets not invaded Afghanistan the US would not have courted the Islamists to help out.
     
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  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Funny to some, perhaps. It's tragic, hypocritical, and serious to some.

    Whether USSR blew up the Afghan War, or not, is a different question.

    Do you agree, or deny, that the US supported and armed the Islamic Fundamentalists in Afghanistan, in their quest to give the USSR their "Vietnam?" Do you agree, or deny, that the US sympathized with the Chechen Rebels, and criticized Russia, all throughout the two Chechen Wars? Come clean on these two questions. The discussion is about US role, and how they called people "freedom fighters," only later to swallow their own words, but not before innocent Americans were killed.
     
  12. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Not the United States have put that card on the struggle in the Soviet Union.It was impossible to rely on radical Islamism. All this is equal how to play with a crocodile. It can not be tamed. And they suckled him from him a monster.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    "How to play with a crocodile."

    :rotflmao:
     
  14. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    The basic problem is with this US attitude of using any method that suits them at that particular moment without a second thought about long-term consequence. From the Hiroshima to Afghan war. We would call it moral bankruptcy.

    US always thought that they are so far away across the Atlantic no fire they light in other parts of the world will come home... .but the rules of the game have changed. Technological leaps have unforeseen effects.

    In any case for people elsewhere terrorist strikes are something like an everyday occurrence. But you realize its gravity only when it hits your backyard.

    Hope the US will do some introspection at least now. And come clean of that demented 'our terrorist, your terrorist' approach.
     
  15. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yes. Do you also agree that the USSR supported Marxists in Vietnam to give America its Vietnam? What's the difference then? It was the Cold War, your enemy is my friend...

    The US has also exploited the Soviet religious repression in Poland and has so actively tied up with then Pope John Paul II to weaken the USSR. The Soviets on the other hand has courted the ant-imperialist and nationalist forces all over the World to go against America. They were plotting against each other and exploiting their weak spots. It was not a time for the faint hearted otherwise the Soviets would still be around by now.


    President Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton all avoided talking Chechnya - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  16. afako

    afako Regular Member

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    Islam is a religion of peace, compassion and brotherhood.

    There are some bigots who do this, they are not Muslims, they are brainwashed and have nothing to do with Islam.

    e.g.: Boston Bombers.
     
  17. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    It's called pragmatism. And even if the US have not courted Wahabbism in the Afghan War you cannot be certain that radical Islam will not grow up to what it is now. I for one believe that regardless of whether or not the US entered into an unholy alliance with the Islamists in Afghanistan Islamic militancy will still be existing now. You know why? This Islamic militancy is a reactionary movement against the onslaught of modernity into puritanical Islamic societies. These Islamists are lashing out against modernity and the US is simply a bogeyman in their movement. They needed a symbol to rally against and the US fitted the bill since it is the embodiment of the modernity that they are lashing out against. If it is not the US then it will be some other economically successful and political and socially liberal country elsewhere that will be the target of their contempt.

    By buying the half-thought of claim that the US has created this Islamic monster by supporting them in the Afghan War some people are simply strengthening the position of the Islamist.
     
  18. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    1. Pragmatism, when blind beyond one's own nose, is disastrous and counter-productive. You need to see a little beyond your nose and imagine what could be there beyond the bend.
    2. Militancy has been associated with Islam in the past also. But it gained legitimacy as a geopolitical tool with Afghanistan. Even in a place like Kashmir, the use of Islamic militancy began post-Soviet Afghanistan.
    3. No, US did not create Islamic militancy. However, US reinvented it as a geopolitical tool in South Asia.
    4. I do not think pointing out the US role does not justify use of militancy to achieve any objective. An argument like that is dangerous and Fascist as it forecloses any chance of introspection and change of course.
    5. The rightful course for the US is to go after all Islamic militants, good and bad -- ours and theirs -- all over the world, especially in Pakistan, where it has a lot of say.
     
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  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    When it comes to terror from South Asia specifically AfPak region, the US is responsible to a large extent.

    Use of "mujahideen" against the Soviets and glorifying them as their abilities. Turning a blind eye to the terror directed against India by Pakistan.

    I means these are those same very people not new ones. You reap what you sow is an old saying. America cannot be absolved of promoting terror and I will also add proliferation of nukes by winking at the ChiPak nexus.

    If God forbid a nuke bomb makes it way to the US from Pak, the US should blame itself.
     
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  20. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Do you think there would have been NO Mujahideen's had the US not dip its finger in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? Anybody who entertains this this thought is living in lala land.
     
  21. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Easy to say this when you have the benefit of hindsight and the USSR is no longer breathing fire on US' back...


    Yeah. Thanks to the stupid decision of the USSR to invade Afghanistan Islamic militancy has been given a boost!


    But the USSR provided the excuse to unleash that experiment.


    Are there good Islamic militants?
     

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