France takes delivery of first Rafale with RBE2 AESA

p2prada

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I have discussed all of this before. No point getting into it again. Keep believing what you want. IAF is not looking at France for the MKI upgrade after all.

There have been no disclosures of substance on China's X-Band AESA technology, but it is known that the J-10B fighter has a radar bay shape and is sized for an APG-82 class AESA.Evolution of AESA Radar Technology | 2012-08-15 | Microwave Journal

The consensus among PLA-watchers are pretty clear. J-10Bs will be operational around this year or next. Right after the fielding of J-10A Lot 6.

It is first time I hear that software would be the greatest challenge for China...
I will look for the source before answering.

Software is always a challenge. China's software capability is not established as of today for obvious reasons.
 

p2prada

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Hmm, I found it rather quickly.



If you read the part in English, it talks of both active arrays and linear sub arrays. Sub arrays are used in AESA and are basically another word for active T/R modules.

The article talks of a 1152 T/R elements on a 1m(?) array and delivering 10KW. So, it is not necessarily a system meant for the J-10. But it is still an AESA array.

There were other pages, but I am too lazy to hunt for them.
 

ice berg

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Software is always a challenge. China's software capability is not established as of today for obvious reasons.
How you judge that one way or another.

There is no analysis on this afaik.

If they can field their Aegis equivelent, I am sure they can come up with the software for a radar.... After all that kind system will require far more robust software codes.
 

Armand2REP

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If they can field their Aegis equivelent, I am sure they can come up with the software for a radar.... After all that kind system will require far more robust software codes.
They never did field an AEGIS equivalent. The radar never performed up to SPY-1 standards requiring a separate EW radar.
 

Armand2REP

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Hmm, I found it rather quickly.

If you read the part in English, it talks of both active arrays and linear sub arrays. Sub arrays are used in AESA and are basically another word for active T/R modules.

The article talks of a 1152 T/R elements on a 1m(?) array and delivering 10KW. So, it is not necessarily a system meant for the J-10. But it is still an AESA array.

There were other pages, but I am too lazy to hunt for them.
Is that the evidence you are citing? :rofl:
 

p2prada

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How you judge that one way or another.

There is no analysis on this afaik.

If they can field their Aegis equivelent, I am sure they can come up with the software for a radar.... After all that kind system will require far more robust software codes.
Fielding an AEGIS equivalent by showing the hardware is nothing. There are two ways to prove it, export it and provide details during the process or demonstrate it and release details.

Software is very fluid.

Is that the evidence you are citing? :rofl:
Then what do you think constitutes "proof?" I would really like your definition of that. Maybe research papers from Thales don't fall under the category of "proof" in France.

Maybe you need some official pointing at the radar and saying it's an AESA for you to believe it. :rolleyes:
 

vishwaprasad

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IAF tested the radar to meet MMRCA qualifications for an AESA with a range of 130km. The month before Russia brought it they advertised Zhuk AE tracking out to 150km. Zhuk AE failed the test in range and tracking perimeters to only 130km. That means it FAILED its most basic claim. IAF doesn't want false promises, they want results.



What has Russia demonstrated? They brought their most developed AESA array and it failed the most basic test. Russia will promise you and their own military the moon, but what do they have? They can't even equip their own armed forces with modern weapons. This is the 3rd rearmament plan and it is failing as bad as the first two.

MiG makes promises but they can't get Phazatron to make a radar to do what it promised. How can anyone trust them to build a bigger and better version when they can't get the small one to work properly?
Have to agree on this.... Russians will make any false promises (like our leaders do in elections) to make cash by putting FGA-29/35 tags on their products....MIG-35 itself was a souped up MIG-29 and all those promises by the Russians to deliver AESA with 1000+ modules would have been as usual got delayed or price would have been hiked by them later....
 

p2prada

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Have to agree on this.... Russians will make any false promises (like our leaders do in elections) to make cash by putting FGA-29/35 tags on their products....MIG-35 itself was a souped up MIG-29 and all those promises by the Russians to deliver AESA with 1000+ modules would have been as usual got delayed or price would have been hiked by them later....
More nonsense without basic understanding of the nuances of how deals are made.

Except for the SH and F-16, no other aircraft's AESA is ready even today. The Rafale AESA is yet to be cleared for full operational clearance while the AESAs for other aircraft are all in the same boat. IAF chose an aircraft without the AESA being ready for it, both Rafale and EF-2000.

The 1000+ module AESA is more or less ready and so are the 1500+ module AESAs meant for MKI/PAKFA. Both NIIP and Phazatron were competing for the MKI upgrade program and it would seem IN is looking to upgrade the Mig-29K with AESA during MLU.

There is no point in criticizing a country which actually delivers.
 

vishwaprasad

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More nonsense without basic understanding of the nuances of how deals are made.

Except for the SH and F-16, no other aircraft's AESA is ready even today. The Rafale AESA is yet to be cleared for full operational clearance while the AESAs for other aircraft are all in the same boat. IAF chose an aircraft without the AESA being ready for it, both Rafale and EF-2000.

The 1000+ module AESA is more or less ready and so are the 1500+ module AESAs meant for MKI/PAKFA. Both NIIP and Phazatron were competing for the MKI upgrade program and it would seem IN is looking to upgrade the Mig-29K with AESA during MLU.

There is no point in criticizing a country which actually delivers.
P2 I am not saying Russians cannot make such radars...I just don't like their greedy behavior and lying habits to bag the deals....When their radar was put on the test for MRCA trials you say that range was not 150 or 160 km as claimed rather it was 130 km or even lesser...though it was not a failure but then why they always come with the things which are not fully prepared and make tall claims to bag the deal?

French AESA was not ready but at least they did not make any tall claims like Russians...they were working quietly on it. IAF even without AESA was so impressed with Rafale that now it is a winner of MRCA contest and that time Russian MIG was flying with 650 modules AESA during trials, this shows the quality of the French work....Russians can make quality weapons and MKI, Brahmos, Krivaks are many examples of it but they just cannot deliver on time which escalates price and life span of their products/EW warfare systems are no where near the western products....
 

p2prada

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P2 I am not saying Russians cannot make such radars...I just don't like their greedy behavior and lying habits to bag the deals....When their radar was put on the test for MRCA trials you say that range was not 150 or 160 km as claimed rather it was 130 km or even lesser...though it was not a failure but then why they always come with the things which are not fully prepared and make tall claims to bag the deal?
They did not lie, it is just that the media did not pick up the correct information.

The FGA-29 is a smaller ~680 T/R module array, it is a prototype.
MiG-35 Multipurpose Fighter Bomber - Army.lv
The Active Phased Array (APA) "Zhuk-AE" (FGA-29) radar tracks 30 targets and simultaneously serves 2-6 targets at the range up to 130km. The weight of the radar is 105 kg. The diameter of the antenna is 575mm. It consists of 680 transmit-receive modules (increasing up to 1024 modules is planned). The pulse power is 3.4kW. The power consumption amounts to 5-6kW.
So, what they brought to the trials was the FGA-29, but what they promised was the FGA-35. The FGA-35 is a larger array with twice the T/R modules. Which means the array offered by the Russians was very similar to what is going on the French fighter.

For the FGA-35, the specifications allow it greater range and power and tracking range is supposed to be around 200Km, similar to RBE-2AA claims.

French AESA was not ready but at least they did not make any tall claims like Russians...they were working quietly on it.
Nobody made any false claims. Even the French have made claims.

IAF even without AESA was so impressed with Rafale that now it is a winner of MRCA contest and that time Russian MIG was flying with 650 modules AESA during trials, this shows the quality of the French work....Russians can make quality weapons and MKI, Brahmos, Krivaks are many examples of it but they just cannot deliver on time which escalates price and life span of their products/EW warfare systems are no where near the western products....
None of this is true. It is a false assumption that the Russians are behind simply because 20 years ago their collective union broke up into smaller parts. Delays are part and parcel of every project. Out of all the major ship and submarine building projects to date over the last 70 years in the USN, only the Virginia class submarines have been on time.

There is a false assumption from Russia as compared to what has been happening with other projects we have had with other countries. For one, the Russians are not delivering transport aircraft and such technologically small scale projects, nor are they delivering technology that has been in production since a long time. A lot of the high end stuff we are buying from Russia were developed with the Indian armed forces in mind. This includes weapons and the platforms. Delays are inevitable if R&D is also included and this is no different from American projects, let alone French or Israeli.

The Americans too have their own share of major delays starting with the F-35 - 7 years. F-22 modernization is delayed by many years now - 3 years. So, is their Zumwault destroyer and their new carrier is also delayed. The carrier program may be delayed by a lot of years due to a new testing schedule. The delay could be as much as 7 years. Their ABM projects are also delayed by many years.

Russian delays with Gorky was management issue not technological. It is obvious that if you were also involved in the F-35 program then even you would be cribbing about how the Americans delay their projects too.

If you are talking about EW, then the last time the Russians were involved in a tender against the French was in the Malaysian tender to configure the Su-30MKM. The Malaysians chose Russian EW kits over French. In the upcoming MKI upgrade, we may see entirely new Russian EW configurations based on the SAP-14 and SAP-518 pods. The SAP-14's only equivalent is the ALQ-99E pods on the EA-18G Growler.
 

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