France says JF-17 avionics sale to Pakistan held up

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by enlightened1, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    PARIS, April 2 (Reuters) - France's plan to sell 1.2 billion euro ($1.6 billion) worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said on Friday.

    Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles -- the first section of a 6 billion euro contract -- under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan's finances.

    "It's a deal that's not ready from the Pakistani side," the source said, without giving further details. "For now, the state of the dossier doesn't allow us to carry on with it."

    A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales (TCFP.PA) and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment.

    France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said.

    In February, MBDA said it planned to upgrade India's Mirage 2000 fighters and was looking to expand in India. [ID:nSGE61F0C3]

    Le Monde said talks over that upgrade also played a role in the decision. (Reporting by Sophie Hardach and Yann Le Guernigou; editing by Philippa Fletcher)

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6310ER20100402
     
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  3. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    I guess New Delhi told them it was either this or the Mirage upgrade...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2010
  4. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    Trois semaines avant la visite à Paris du premier ministre pakistanais, Yousouf Raza Gilani, le 19 avril, l'Elysée vient de prendre une décision qui pourrait assombrir cette rencontre qualifiée d'"importante". La France ne donnera pas, en effet, son feu vert à un contrat de 1,2 milliard d'euros portant sur l'équipement en électronique et en missiles d'une centaine d'avions de chasse JF-17, fabriqués par le Pakistan avec l'aide des Chinois.

    Après dix-huit mois de négociations, la société française ATE, associée à Thales et MBDA, avait été retenue par Islamabad. Il s'agissait du premier volet d'un contrat global de 6 milliards d'euros visant à l'équipement de l'ensemble des JF-17 de l'armée de l'air pakistanaise, soit près de 400 chasseurs.

    "Je n'ai pas été informé directement du choix de l'Elysée, qui me semble extrêmement surprenant au regard des enjeux industriels et stratégiques pour la France dans cette région", a assuré Jean-Marc Pizano, le patron d'ATE.

    La commission interministérielle d'étude des exportations de matériels de guerre (CIEEMG) avait émis, à l'été 2008, un avis favorable à l'ouverture des négociations. Il ne manquait plus, selon ATE, que l'accord du gouvernement français.

    Selon un conseiller du président de la République, ce refus serait, notamment, lié aux relations franco-indiennes. La signature d'un tel contrat, dans le contexte actuel de tension entre l'Inde et le Pakistan, desservirait les intérêts de Paris à New Delhi.

    Du côté de la direction générale pour l'armement (DGA), on ajoutait, jeudi 1er avril, que la relance des discussions avec l'Inde pour la modernisation, par la France, de sa flotte de Mirage 2000 avait également joué dans la décision de l'Elysée.

    Intense lobbying de l'Inde

    C'est la fin d'un bras de fer entre les différentes administrations françaises sur fond de divergences sur la politique de la France en Asie du Sud. Le ministère français des affaires étrangères semblait pour sa part rétif. Objet d'un intense lobbying de l'Inde, il estimait que l'accord du gouvernement butait sur le manque de garanties liées à la protection de la technologie française. Selon le Quai d'Orsay, les Pakistanais voulaient, contrairement aux clauses du contrat, que les assemblages et l'équipement des JF-17 se fassent sur leur sol.

    Au ministère des finances, qui se disait favorable à la signature et soucieux d'accroître le niveau des relations commerciales avec le Pakistan, on indique que ce contrat s'est surtout heurté à des questions budgétaires.

    Les finances d'Islamabad sont actuellement sous la surveillance du Fonds monétaire international (FMI), qui lui a apporté son aide. Alors que des négociations sont en cours sur la prolongation de ce soutien, Bercy s'interroge sur la réalité de la marge de manoeuvre du Pakistan pour honorer un contrat de 6 milliards d'euros.

    Au ministère de la défense pakistanais, à Islamabad, on assurait, le 24 mars, au Monde, que rien ne s'opposait à ce contrat et que l'on espérait que l'annonce de la signature interviendrait lors des rencontres entre M. Gilani et M. Sarkozy ou M. Fillon. "Quant à l'argent, ajoutait l'un de ses porte-parole, ce n'est pas le FMI qui décide ce qu'on en fait. Ce contrat est important pour le Pakistan, la France a sa place, chez nous, aux côtés des Etats-Unis et de la Chine."

    Enfin, autre élément qui a pu intervenir dans cet échec, la société ATE a sans doute payé sa récente présence sur le marché français. Créée, en 1984, en Afrique du Sud, par M. Pizano, un ancien ingénieur de Dassault, elle travaillait jusque-là à l'étranger. Le marché de l'intégration de systèmes électroniques à bord d'avions est peu développé en France. L'industrie aéronautique française et son fer de lance, Dassault, préfèrent vendre des avions tout entiers.
    Jacques Follorou
     
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  5. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Quite possible.

    Basically European consortium can't be trusted in matters of Defense exports. Its very natural, they are out there to sell their product. India can't influence all contracts they consider excluding this one. France can't stand apart from the consortium just to ensure we are with India.

    What will be interesting to see is , weather Pak can bag any deal with France in future or not....
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    They will wait till the MRCA bid is over. If they lose they will sell to pakistan. If they win, pakistan will have to look for new avionics or go with the chinese
     
  7. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    PAK will need to show them money first though, No Credit business by Europeans ... LOL!
    Whoever comes with money, will be equipped with European tech (excluding disputed countries ofcourse)....
     
  8. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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    Lol saw this coming.
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I think its time to add item no 57 to the wish list given to uncle sam.
     
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  10. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    this was very much on the cards post india agreeing to the upgrade package for mirage, in fact it seems the very reason why india went for the french deal and not the israel deal was to make sure pakistan did nit get the deal they were looking for their jf17s.

    one wonders where does this leave the claim by pakistan on the procuring of 3 marlin subs, with germany already having moved them aside till the time india decides on second line of subs.

    only if we could block those f16s, pakistan then would have no option but just the chinese, what an icing on the cake would that be.
     
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  11. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    If that goes through, Uncle will have to justify the need of the same. That will be last step to quit the US friendly strategy for India.....
     
  12. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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    T_R the Marlin sub deal is a hypothetical bordering on the extreme side, the establishment in Pakistan already hinted at what was to come (Chinese subs). We are taking a spanking everywhere, it is time for all weather friend to to come through.

    PS : Can't block F-16 deal, where else are we going to get our slow death from?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
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  13. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    1. Could be what I've said
    2. Maybe the french fear their tech falling into chinese hands (most plausible)
    3. Pakistan doesn't have the finances

    Though their PM still has to visit France later this month...could still work out..who knows..I expected the deal to go through.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  14. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Solid,

    Even I think the news about marlin subs is a crap and nothing else, French wont take that risk especially when we have the scorpene subs under construction with another possible order of 6 marlins for the second line of subs which helps ease out our logistic issues big time, though for now that part remains a case of ifs and buts and I tend to feel we wont go the French way on that one.

    Chinese will stand tall and without a doubt will fill up the void where ever it exists, since in Pakistan they have a front from where they can keep India bogged down, and nothing suits the chinese better than that, with them having not to get personally involved and dirty their hands, all they need to do is feed Pakistan.

    You have an important point on the slow death, which is in fact slow poison; in that case it would be better if there was no real block on Pakistan purchasing military hardware/software from all over because the Europeans will any day ask for hard cash unlike the chinese who will do a soft credit deal only to write it off at some later stage as they have been doing for the African continent.

    The good thing I see happening with the chinese product purchase is the issue of quality and this contentious issue is something that can be used for psyops to inflict a moral victory over Pakistan army at the right time.

    E1,

    i think point 1 fits the bill well, with a slight possibility of 3 but i think Pakistan had worked out their finances for this deal. point 2 would figure in if the US are involved back doors, and if not, then i dont think the French have an issue even if the tech were to fall in the hands of the chinese, they in fact are keen on reviving defence sale to the chinese.
     
  15. xebex

    xebex Regular Member

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    Exterminating an Emo means one low-life less!
    So Pakistan basically got April Fooled by France!!!

    France can not sell its equipment to both India and Pakistan, its either India or Pakistan- same applies for F16s.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  16. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Looks like the [email protected] in the diplomatic machinery are finally beginning to find their feet.

    It's not just the MRCA or the co-development of the Kaveri or Shakthi engines or the Scorpenes deal. In the last few weeks alone, India has:

    - Signed a deal to buy 15 fast-interception boats from France
    - Inked a $2.2 billion Mirage upgrade deal with Dassault
    - Entered into an agreement with Thales to retrofit IFF / CIT equipment on the MiG-29's
    - Speculated on yet further upgrades to the Mirage and Jaguar fleet with MBDA


    And that is merely what I can come up with off the top of my head. In addition, ofcourse, to having Nexter's Ceaser participate in the multi-billion $ artillery contest and the host of civil nuclear, defense and aerospace agreements signed over the last 2 years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
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  17. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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    The psyops is already working against Pakistan and the source is Pakistan itself, I mean the reason we went to France in the first place is because we are not confident in Chinese avionics, radar and weapons.The ball is completely in India's court.
    You are right, I really don't think the French mind dealing with China, there is a lot of Chinese gear that is basically French in origin (Z-9 for example among many others).
     
  18. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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  19. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Ritesh ji, Instead of wishing or trying to block these Pakistani deals, shouldn't GOI start finalising some big ticket acquisitions for the modernisation of our forces. How long can we keep on dangling MMRCA/Howitzer/Helicopter/Submarine deals to the Western countries. This Govt. has lost 6 years and does not seem to be in any hurry to make up for the lost time.
     
  20. Raj Malhotra

    Raj Malhotra Regular Member

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    These are small contracts, the real carrot for france is nuclear deal for 6 reactors which is something like US$ 20 billion. Pak cannot match it in their wildest dreams
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2010
  21. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    China is providing Pakistan the first 50 something jf-17s on a soft loan basis, I don't think les francais want any thing other than hard cash & I think Armand once said the Chinese were allowed to license build the Z-9 for civilian purposes but then illegally started producing'em for their armed forces. Armand if you are reading this can you confirm?
     

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