France passes genocide bill, angry Turkey cuts ties

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by SpArK, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    France passes genocide bill, angry Turkey cuts ties



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    (Reuters) - France sparked a diplomatic row with Turkey on Thursday by taking steps to criminalize the denial of genocide, including the 1915 mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks, prompting Ankara to cancel all economic, political and military meetings.


    Lawmakers in France's National Assembly - the lower house of parliament - voted overwhelmingly in favour of a draft law outlawing genocide denial, which will be debated next year in the Senate.


    French Foreign Affairs Minister Alain Juppe, speaking to journalists after the vote, urged Turkey not to overreact to the assembly decision, called for "good sense and moderation."


    But Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan angrily criticized France for passing the draft legislation, which touches on a highly controversial period in his country's history.


    The bill, put forward by members of French President Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling party, was "politics based on racism, discrimination, xenophobia," Erdogan told journalists.


    He said Sarkozy, was sacrificing good ties "for the sake of political calculations," suggesting the president was tying to win the votes of ethnic Armenians in France in an election next year.


    Erdogan said Turkey was cancelling all economic, political and military meetings with its NATO partner and said it would cancel permission for French military planes to land, and warships to dock, in Turkey.


    Juppe said Turkey had also recalled its ambassador from France, a decision he regretted.


    "What I hope now is that our Turkish friends do not overreact about the French national Assembly decision. We have lots of things to work on together," Juppe said.


    Armenia, backed by many historians and parliaments, says about 1.5 million Christian Armenians were killed in what is now eastern Turkey during World War One in a deliberate policy of genocide ordered by the Ottoman government.


    Successive Turkish governments and the vast majority of Turks feel the charge of genocide is an insult to their nation. Ankara argues that there was heavy loss of life on both sides during fighting in the area.


    "I don't understand why France wants to censor my freedom of expression," Yildiz Hamza, president of the Montargis association that represents 700 Turkish families in France, told Reuters outside the National Assembly.


    Earlier, about 3,000 French nationals of Turkish origin demonstrated peacefully outside the parliament ahead of the vote, which came 32 years to the day since a Turkish diplomat was assassinated by Armenian militants in central Paris.


    The authorities in Yerevan welcomed the vote. "By adopting this bill (France) reconfirmed that crimes against humanity do not have a period of prescription and their denial must be absolutely condemned," Armenia's Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian saying in a statement.


    France passed a law recognizing the killing of Armenians as genocide in 2001. The French lower house first passed a bill criminalizing the denial of an Armenian genocide in 2006, but it was rejected by the Senate in May this year.


    The latest draft law was made more general to outlaw the denial of any genocide, partly in the hope of appeasing Turkey.


    It could still face a long passage into law, though its backers want to see it completed before parliament is suspended at the end of February ahead of elections in the second quarter.


    National Assembly speaker Bernard Accoyer said on Wednesday that he doubted the bill would pass by the end of the current parliament, as the government had not made the bill priority legislation.


    TURKISH ANGER, FRENCH ELECTIONS


    The French government has stressed that it did not initiate the bill, which mandates a 45,000-euro fine and a year in jail for offenders, and says Turkey cannot impose unilateral trade sanctions.


    Faced with Sarkozy's open hostility to Turkey's stagnant bid to join the European Union, and buoyed by a fast-growing economy, Ankara has little to lose by picking a political fight with Paris.


    With Turkey taking an increasingly influential role in the Arab world and Middle East, especially Syria, Iran and Libya, France could experience some diplomatic discomfort, and French firms could lose out on lucrative Turkish contracts.


    France is Turkey's fifth biggest export market and the sixth biggest source of its imports. About 360 French companies operate in Turkey , employing more than 80,000 people, according to export consultancy UbiFrance.


    "Turkey is a democracy and has joined the World Trade Organisation so it can't just discriminate for political reasons against countries," Europe Minister Jean Leonetti told France Inter radio. "I think these threats are just hot air and we (have) to begin a much more reasoned dialogue."


    The French bill feeds a sense shared by many Turks that they are unwanted by Europe and it fires up nationalist fervor. However, in a more self-confident Turkey, popular reaction has been more muted than in the past.


    France has been pushing Turkey to own up to its history, just as France belatedly recognized the role of its collaborationist Vichy government during World War II in deporting Jews to Nazi concentration camps.




    France passes genocide bill, angry Turkey cuts ties | Reuters
     
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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Turkey Suspends Military Ties with France

    AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
    Published: 22 Dec 2011 16:15

    ANKARA - Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced a raft of political and military sanctions Dec. 22 after French lawmakers approved a bill making it a crime to deny Armenian genocide.

    Turkey will recall its ambassador from Paris and suspend mutual political visits as well as joint military projects, including joint exercises, Erdogan said.

    "From now on we are revising our relations with France."

    Most of the sanctions imposed on France, a NATO ally, will be in the military sphere. Turkey will now decide on a case-by-case basis on every military demand made by EU member France to use Turkish airspace and military bases, Erdogan said, and will from now on reject any French demand for its military vessels to dock at Turkish ports.

    Erdogan said Turkey would boycott a joint economic committee meeting in Paris in January and would not take part in twinning projects with France.

    Turkey Suspends Military Ties with France - Defense News
     
  4. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    [video]http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6253043n[/video]

    :shocked: :sad:
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Turkey continues to surprise me. :facepalm:
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Not that anyone cares!
     
  7. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    So no more Turkey sandwich along with French fries. :scared2:
     
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  8. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well I guess it's understandable in a way. If Uk for example to please it's Kashmiri origin citizens passes a law to make it illegal to deny Kashmiri atrocities or the like. India would react quite harshly. Given that this incident refers wwI. It doesn't make any sense given France herself was involved in a brutal genocide as a colonial power in algeria and indo china, particularly Vietnam.
     
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  9. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    But do the French deny their history ? Armenian genocide is denied in Turkish history books (somewhat like Pakistan denying the Bangladeshi genocide)

    Are you equating the Armenian genocide to what happens in Kashmir ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  10. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    What's the bet Pakistanis would demand severing ties too to please their Turkish masters?
     
  11. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Who will service their mirages?
     
  12. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    The are phasing the Mirage Roses out anyways, China would be more than happy to fill the gap though.
     
  13. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    Much more should be done to hold Turkey accountable, this is not enough.
     
  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    This bill isn't just about Armenian genocide but all genocides. So if I want to deny Algerian genocide does that mean I have to pay €45,000? This is a serious issue of freedom of speech.
     
  15. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    wow this is stunning. Turkey is really wanting out of NATO??
     
  16. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Why Yusuf? Turkey has long deviated from its Kemalist and more pragmatic thinking. While it claims to be simply stop being too submissive, the polity of the nation is moving towards the "selective Islamist" mindset. Ever since Erdogan came, Turkey's foreign policy footsteps are running dangerously parallel to what one traditionally expects out of some Arab/Afghan/Pakistani junta or dictatorship. Though Turkey has seen better development and Turkish common people are still sensible enough, the country's new governance is simply encouraging Islamist-ultra tendencies.

    In fact, there is a rather bitter rift inside the country despite what is shown. While everyone is proud of their Turk identity, the ideology plays a significant part. Erdogan's Islamist lean believes that they can use the "common religion" factor and dominate the Arab and West Asian world and hence taking Middle Eastern reins from USA/NATO directly (despite ironically being a part of NATO). OTOH, there is the other side--- the Ergenekon. Ergenekon or Grey Wolves as they are called, are ultra-nationalist Turks following the political ideology of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk; their founder. This group adheres to ultranationalist Turk identity and doesn't like Islamist tendencies into ideology. To them, what Erdogan's lot, the AKP, are doing, are nothing more than "Arab slavery".

    One has to note that when Turkey was extensively under Kemal's shadow, it grew by leaps and bounds from a ragtag dead empire, to a developed, progressive and modern country. Ergenekon believes in retaining that; which AKP calls as "demeaning Turkish identity of Islamism and pandering to west".

    In recent years, Turkey has disappointingly become more and more Islamist, going as far as conducting joint-wargames with China just to show the "we're not your slaves" mindset to NATO (Despite the fact that Turks and Chinese don't get along well).


    Like we have Pakistan and Bangladesh on each side, Turkey has Armenia and Greece to its hostile list. Armenia and Greece are already having strong support of Russia. So if the French said something in favor of Armenians, it directly means an insult to Turks.
     
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  17. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    85% of Pakistani arsenal is Chinese, the remaining being US-made. Mirage-IIIs are retiring and being replaced by JF-17s. According to what Pakistanis say, JF-17 will replace 3 types in their fleet: F-7, Q-5 and Mirage-III.... our equivalents of MiG-21s and MiG-23s.

    And China has already stepped in big.
     
  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    I think he's talking about the Kashmiri Pandit holocaust and exile...
     
  19. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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  20. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Never mind, we only have to pay the fine if we deny state recognised genocide.
     
  21. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    A million victims who died in a deliberate carnage for alleged treachery cannot be compared to victims of collateral damage.

    The comparison does not make sense.

    Its a crime to deny Holocaust in West Europe..one more comparable genocide is added to the list.

    BTW I think Turkey is punching above its weight. A big facepalm to Erdogan.
     

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