France formally recognises Libya's rebels

Armand2REP

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France announces air strikes in the wake of UN vote

The fifteen member states of the Security Council of the United Nations voted Thursday on a draft resolution muscled against Libya, France announced the air strikes in the wake against the army of Colonel Gaddafi.

The 15 Council members decided at 22.00 GMT on the project that includes military measures to protect civilians, but excludes the occupation of Libya.

French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said late Thursday that Paris wanted military action in the coming hours if approved the draft resolution. China and Russia, traditionally hostile to the "interference" in internal affairs of member states, however, sat on the sidelines.

In New York, where he came to try to convince his counterparts to support the project, the French foreign minister, Alain Juppe, spoke of "the use of air power" to enforce the resolution.

But in Tripoli, a spokesman for the MoD said any foreign military action would "expose all air and sea traffic in the Mediterranean in danger."

"Anything mobile civilian or military will be the target of a Libyan-offensive against", he warned.

Muammar Gaddafi has announced an aggressive person "tonight" cons Benghazi stronghold of insurgents in the east. "The decision was taken. Get ready, we come tonight," he said in an audio message sent to Benghazi and broadcast on Libyan television. "We must end this charade."

The draft resolution "authorizes member states (...) to take all necessary measures (...) to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attacks" by the forces of Colonel Gaddafi, and included in Benghazi.

The project decided to establish a ban on all flights in the airspace of Libya.

"We have excellent reason to believe there will be a participation of Arab countries' operations against the army of Muammar Gaddafi, predicted Mr. Juppe. "It is a coalition operation, we are with others, we are not alone. This is not a French operation, is an international operation," he said to reporters.

There will be an American participation in military operations, still has the minister said. "This is a moment for the credibility of the UN, especially given the signal to the Arab people which we all welcome the aspiration to freedom and democracy".

"If we allow a dictator to restore its system of oppression through violence and triggering a bloodbath, how can we then say 'go ahead, get involved in a democratic process to regain your freedom +? What is our credibility? "he asked.

http://www.lepoint.fr/monde/libye-l...nnes-dans-la-foulee-17-03-2011-1308089_24.php
 

pmaitra

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Helicopters a challenge for No-Fly Zones

Attack helicopter



This is a Mi-25/Mi-35, essentially the export version of the Soviet-era Mil Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunship. This Russian-built helicopter represents the flying cavalry of the Libyan Air Force.

It carries a crew of two, in a stepped, tandem arrangement, with the weapons operator sitting just ahead of and below the pilot. It is armed with a multi-barreled machine-gun or cannon and it can fire anti-tank missiles and deliver other munitions against ground targets. In addition it can also carry up to eight infantrymen in its rear compartment.

It gives Colonel Gaddafi's forces tactical mobility and relatively heavy mobile fire-power. NATO aircraft found it quite difficult to track and destroy Serbian helicopters during the imposition of "no-fly zones" in the Balkans. While the terrain in Libya is very different, halting all local helicopter flights might be a difficult task for the commanders of any future "no-fly zone".

To read the complete article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12692068
 

Armand2REP

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Libyan helicopters often have to fly high to get over sandstorms... when they do Rafale is going to show them what a MICA IR up their tailpipe can do.
 

amoy

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Interesting to observe their different attitudes
UN Resolution 1973 - Votes

10 For - France, UK, Lebanon, US, South Africa, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Colombia, Portugal, Nigeria, Gabon

0 Against

5 Abstentions - China, Russia, Brazil, India, Germany
 

Armand2REP

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People in the streets of Benghazi chant 1-2-3 Thank you Sarkozy!
 

pmaitra

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People in the streets of Benghazi chant 1-2-3 Thank you Sarkozy!
Sorry Monsieur Armand, I think your repeated protestations about Benghazi betrays your affinity for the anti-Gaddafi faction. Unfortunately, I have been advocating a middle approach, a rapprochement between pro and anti-Gaddafi factions, not a bombing raid by France.

I think Gaddafi was going rather soft on the rebels which allowed them to capture so much territory in the first place. So, I would not consider this to be a poor performance, because when attacking, there is always a higher casualty among the attackers than the defenders. The fact that Gaddafi had superior weapons falls in line with more casualties among the rebels in the recent offensives.

If Gaddafi wanted, he could have done this long time back. Instead, he offered peace talks. Had the rebels accepted those offers, there would have been a transitional government, many of the rebels' demands could have been met and there would have been much less bloodshed. The rebels, bolstered by the diplomatic support, and perhaps material help, from the West has been adamant enough to keep this trouble simmering. None will emerge morally superior in this.

Eventually, we come back to the same point, control of resources, oil in this case, at least theoretically. Any pro-active effort from the West to support the rebels will only add legitimacy to this theory.


Is it not already happening? I think so, although I have no proof. Just my opinion.



If you have the link, please share with us.

I have said this before that Gaddafi is no Saint and can be rightfully be blamed for human rights abuses over the years he ruled. However, Sirte, Gaddafi's native place, was a target of the rebels! Why? Gaddafi is in Tripoli. People in Sirte are pro-Gaddafi. So why were the rebels targeting Sirte? For some reason, this does not behove of noble intentions; especially after the rebels rejected Gaddafi's peace offer.

Finally, you mentioned US/EU/GCC. Cool. What about UN? Are we staring at yet another North African Yugoslavia?
 

Armand2REP

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Sorry Monsieur Armand, I think your repeated protestations about Benghazi betrays your affinity for the anti-Gaddafi faction. Unfortunately, I have been advocating a middle approach, a rapprochement between pro and anti-Gaddafi factions, not a bombing raid by France.
Gaddafi only has one chance and it starts now, if he so much as launches one aircraft or attacks one civilian, we are going to burn his forces to ashes.
 

pmaitra

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Gaddafi only has one chance and it starts now, if he so much as launches one aircraft or attacks one civilian, we are going to burn his forces to ashes.
If France carries out bombing raids, it will kill civilians as well. Nothing worthy of praise. It is not only me, but also Germany and Brazil who think this way.

Anyways, the French better not get on the ground, or else, it could be the Vietnam for France, especially with Russia and PRC not in favour of air-strikes. This is mere speculation, but likely nevertheless.
 
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Armand2REP

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If France carries out bombing raids, it will kill civilians as well. Nothing worthy of praise. It is not only me, but also Germany and Brazil who think this way.
France has the best weapon for limiting civilian casualties, it is the 1m CEP, top attack AASM.


Anyways, the French better not get on the ground, or else, it could be the Vietnam for France, especially with Russia and PRC not in favour of air-strikes. This is mere speculation, but likely nevertheless.
UN resolution prohibits occupation forces, but does not limit ground force intervention so we won't be staying. One French combined arms brigade can defeat Gaddafi in less than a week and be out for Sunday Mass.
 
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pmaitra

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France has the best weapon for limiting civilian casualties, it is the 1m CEP, top attack AASM.




UN resolution prohibits occupation forces, but does not limit ground force intervention so we won't be staying. One French combined arms brigade can defeat Gaddafi in less than a week and be out for Sunday Mass.
From the economic point of view, yet another opportunity for France to try and climb the list of world's leading arms exporters? ;)

It doesn't really end with oil. LOL.

Monsieur Sarkozy has good business mind.

Caveat 1: The French planes better stay out of Gaddafi's Shilkas' range or else it will boost Russian arms exports.
Caveat 2: Similar pin-point striking technologies from the US failed to prevent heavy civilian casualties in Yugoslavia/Serbia. So, let us wait and see how good these French munitions are.
 
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Armand2REP

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From the economic point of view, yet another opportunity for France to try and climb the list of world's leading arms exporters? ;)
Added bonus...

Caveat 1: The French planes better stay out of Gaddafi's Shilkas' range or else it will boost Russian arms exports.
Considering we won't be using dumb bombs, the obsolete Shilka is not an issue. It is more for shooting down helicopters.

Caveat 2: Similar pin-point striking technologies from the US failed to prevent heavy civilian casualties in Yugoslavia/Serbia. So, let us wait and see how good these French munitions are.
The US didn't have similar pin-point strike technologies... they still don't. This is the most accurate bomb on the planet.
 

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United Nations approves no-fly zone over Libya

UNITED NATIONS: The UN Security Council on Thursday approved a no-fly zone over Libya and authorized "all necessary measures" to protect civilians from attacks by Moammar Gaddafi's forces.

The action came as the Libyan leader was poised to make a final push against rebels holding out in Bengazhi, Libya's second largest city.

The vote in the 15-member council was 10-0 with five abstentions, including Russia and China.

The United States, France and Britain had pushed for speedy approval. French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said if the resolution was approved, France would support military action against Gadhafi within hours.

The US said it was preparing for action. Several Arab nations were expected to provide backup. Gaddafi vowed to launch a final assault on Benghazi and crush the rebellion as his forces advanced toward the city and warplanes bombed its airport Thursday.

Gaddafi said in an interview broadcast Thursday on Portuguese public broadcaster Radiotelevisao Portuguesa that he rejected any UN threats of action. "The UN Security Council has no mandate," Gaddafi said. "We don't acknowledge their resolutions." He warned that any military action would be construed as "colonization without any justification" and would have "grave repercussions."

The text of the resolution calls on nations to "establish a ban on all flights in the airspace of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya in order to help protect civilians." It also authorizes UN member states to take "all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory."

Source
 

pmaitra

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Added bonus...
Appreciate the acknowledgment.


Considering we won't be using dumb bombs, the obsolete Shilka is not an issue. It is more for shooting down helicopters.
I wish the French planes do not suffer in the hands of obsolete Soviet weapons: U.S. Stealth Fighter Is Downed in Yugoslavia as NATO Orders Attack on Serb Army Units. It is true that Shilkas are more about shooting down helicopters, so I mentioned 'range'.

The US didn't have similar pin-point strike technologies... they still don't. This is the most accurate bomb on the planet.
As I said, let us wait and see.

From a straightforward comparison, odds are heavily in favour of the French as long as they don't put their feet on Libyan soil.
 
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civfanatic

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The Libyan Air Force is even more of a joke than the Serbian Air Force. At least the Serbs had Fulcrums. The best that Gadaffi has are MiG-23s (evil laugh).

And don't get me started on Libyan Air Defence...

INTERESTING FACT:

Gadaffi was in negotiations to purchase Rafales before the revolution. I guess he'll be scrapping those plans now.
 

pmaitra

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The Libyan Air Force is even more of a joke than the Serbian Air Force. At least the Serbs had Fulcrums. The best that Gadaffi has are MiG-23s (evil laugh).

And don't get me started on Libyan Air Defence...

INTERESTING FACT:

Gadaffi was in negotiations to purchase Rafales before the revolution. I guess he'll be scrapping those plans now.
That F-117A was probably shot down by a SAM, not MiG-29. I do not know what air-defenses Gaddafi has. Iglas and Shilkas won't threaten French planes much because the latter might be using BVR munitions. Let's see how this story unfolds.
 

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That F-117A was probably shot down by a SAM, not MiG-29. I do not know what air-defenses Gaddafi has. Iglas and Shilkas won't threaten French planes much because the latter might be using BVR munitions. Let's see how this story unfolds.
I don't have much confidence in either the Libyan Air Force or Air Defence. Both have been humiliated many times in the past.

Cases in point:
Libyan-Egyptian War
Libyan-Chadian War
Operation El Dorado Canyon
Gulf of Sidra Incidents
 

Armand2REP

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12:07: Qatar in turn, acknowledges the National Transitional Council

After France, the second country to recognize the CNT governing body of the rebellion against the regime of Muammar Gaddafi according to Al-Jazeera.
 

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