Four new J-20 and one new J-31 stealth fighters | Popular Science

Discussion in 'China' started by Martian, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    Neo likes this.
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  3. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nice to look at but do they do what the Chinese claim they can do? They've never been tested in combat or in exercises against other air forces. So how can one validate their effectiveness? Chinese stuff is considered the world over as fakes and poor reverse engineered bits and pieces.
     
  4. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    The US F-22 has never engaged in combat against another stealth fighter.

    The only way to find out is to watch an air battle between the J-20 and the F-22.

    Or the F-22 vs. the Chinese J-31.

    Or the F-22 vs. the possible Chinese Dark Sword stealth UCAV.
     
  5. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    The 5th gen F-22 is unbeatable and will, be so in the near future. Their super secret black projects technology is light years ahead of anything the world can produce at present. This is the reason why this top secret craft is banned from export even to Israel.

    You're comparing apples to oranges.
     
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  6. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    You're delusional.

    China has already said its anti-stealth radars can see the F-22 flying along the Korean border.

    It is common knowledge that the F-22 is stealthy only in X-band and upper S-band.

    Chinese radar interferometers and low-band radars can easily detect and track the F-22.
     
  7. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Chinese can't surpass USA with "state of the copy" designs. And that is a fact.
     
  8. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    China has already surpassed the US in supercomputers and high-speed trains.

    Surpassing the US in one field after another is a Chinese specialty.

    Other examples includes anti-satellite kill vehicles (when China shot down a four-foot cube in orbit) and hypersonic glide vehicles.

    You Indians have never surpassed the US in anything.
     
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  9. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    And here we are still debating Rafale. Wonder when will sense prevail. We need to speed up AMCA development. Conclude FGFA deal. But if it fails, then be ready to develop larger cousine on AMCA with AL series engines. Lets aim achievable and get it in time than aim so called cutting edge and never get it. Yes i am referring to Rafale. Lets change our way of doing things. Sooner we do better it will be. China is already showing thenga to world order.
     
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  10. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Look at all the fighter Aircrafts your China has Chinese man, all of them are cheap copies of Russian/USA Aircrafts ! I am sorry if it is hard for you digest the simple truth.
     
  11. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    I have no idea what you are talking about. A Chinese fourth-generation J-10B fighter with canards and DSI has no counterpart in the Russian or American airforce.

    For your information, the J-10A has discontinued production. Thus, I mention the J-10B.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  12. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    You know very well what I am trying to say.
     
  13. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    I'm trying to tell you that you're wrong.

    China mastered the basics of aeronautics and the designs are Chinese. The specifications are suited for Chinese purposes.

    For example, the J-20 stealth fighter is optimized for transonic flight because of the long distances in the South China Sea. In contrast, the F-22 has very large wings for maneuverability and is optimized for the short distances in a European war. They are two very different planes.

    Chinese J-20: canards, delta wings, tail-less, steerable vertical stabilizers, and designed for transonic optimization

    US F-22: no canards, diamond wings, quad-tail, and designed for super-manueverability
     
  14. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    You gave me one AC I can give you many which are based on Russian ACs or a direct copy. The pic you posted reminds me of a MIG series AC. However leave, I have zero interest in Chinese ACs.
     
  15. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    China's supersonic stealth Dark Sword UCAV doesn't look anything like an American UCAV.

    That's a second example for you to think over.

    A third example is the double-fuselage low-band radar Chinese Divine Eagle drone.

    A fourth example is China's Sky Wing 2 stealth UAV.

    [​IMG]

    ----------

    A fifth example is China's Guizou Soar Dragon with a double-wing design.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  16. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Says who? You and the Chinese of course!! you need to stop selling fiction.
     
  17. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    Chinese and Russian radar experts have made the claim.

    US radar experts also make the same claim.

    The F-22 can be seen with VHF radars. Given the advances in interferometry and signal processing during the last 20 years, it is now possible to track an F-22 with VHF/UHF radar. This is common knowledge.

    New Radars, IRST Strengthen Stealth-Detection Claims | Aviation Week

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes it is still effective, taking into consideration that stealth is not invisibility it just means detection ranges to detect stealth aircraft are shorter compared to non stealth aircraft.

    Undoubtedly, Russian/Chinese advancements in radar technology have been advancing in leaps and bounds in the last decade and some people believe that this makes stealth obsolete. Stealth aircraft have reduced detection ranges so they would have to be closer to the radar to be detected compared to non stealth aircraft.

    Take for example the Russian S-400 air defense system which is arguably the most advanced and effective air defense system in the world, it can detect aircraft 600 km away and engage them from 400 km which is quite impressive. It has been reported the f-22's radar signature is the same as a metal marble which is 0.00001 meters squared although this has not been confirmed or denied by the US air force, (note I am sorry I don't know where the squared symbol is on my keyboard so I just typed the word). That means even an air defense system as advanced as the S-400 can detect stealth aircraft about 50 km away, while this may sound like a long distance, stealth aircraft possess the ability to carry long range stand-off ordnance that can be launched from outside this 50km detection zone. So you can launch ordnance outside the radar detection zone and hit the radar without it ever seeing you. An example of some ordnance that can fulfill this role is the JASSM or AGM-158.

    So while I admit older 4th generation fighters may be vulnerable to the new SAM sites, stealth aircraft could just go rolling into the radar zone and launch their ordnance up to 230 miles away, seeing as the S-400 detects stealth aircraft 50km away which is about 30 miles away. So you have a weapon which has a range of 230 miles and you have to destroy a radar with it and the radar can detect you only 30 miles away, it is the simplest and most efficient way to take out a radar. Incase you were wondering the weapon with the 230 mile range is the Jassm (AGM-158) so an F-22 raptor or B-2 Spirit could just launch this missile from way outside the detection range and this makes sure the pilot stays out of harm. So yes I do believe aircraft like the F-22 raptor are effective against new advanced radars.

    Note that the F-22 is designed to hide it's thermal signature and just like radars the thermal sensors would have to be pretty close to detect the body heat of an F-22 raptor. The Chinese and Russians claim that their new radars can easily see stealth aircraft but the US knows this is only at close ranges and no pilot would be stupid enough to fly close to a SAM site over enemy territory. These advanced radars are the reason stealth aircraft were created in the first place and stealth aircraft like the f-22 do an amazing job of countering these threats for which they were built for.
     
  19. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    Did you read the picture caption? It says China's first VHF AESA.

    An AESA radar can focus into a narrow beam for enhanced tracking. China has the supercomputers to amplify and detect the signal. With two units, China has a VHF AESA interferometer. It is suicide for an F-22 to venture into Chinese airspace.
     
  20. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    VHF radar can detect Stealth planes at very long distances like 300 km but they cannot track them as they gather to much noise.The idea is to VHF radar to scan and then pass the approximated area of search to another radar.
     
  21. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    They are junk planes of third generation technologies shaped to give a feeling of a fifth generation plane having nothing fifth generation in it may it be Radar, weapons, design, maneuverability, engine , power or anything which modern fifth generation planes have.
     
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