Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Taiwan

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Zebra, Dec 8, 2014.

  1. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Former general says China won't be afraid to use force to solve Taiwan problem - China - The Straits Times

    Published on Dec 07, 2014

     
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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force to solve Ta

    ^^

    Chinese leadership says something and military says different thing.

    One more case..............

     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force to solve Ta

    Hopefully Xi is not being the usual ambiguous that is the patent right of the Chinese.

    Looking at London and Talking to Tokyo.

    But, surprise, surprise!

    The Chinese double talk cannot be far.

    Taking Taiwan by force?

    Peaceful Force?

    Now, what is that?
     
  5. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Using force in Taiwan will not work efficiently for the Chinese. Their expansionism vision is shown once again.
     
  6. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    I lived in Taiwan for 5.5 years and I know that apart from a hard core of Chinese nationalists, mainly waishenren or mainlanders and their descendants, who are diehard KMT supporters, there is not much support for Taiwan to unify with the People's Republic of China. The Chinese Communist Party is very much disliked in Taiwan, which is hardly surprising. Hypothetically, Taiwanese nationalists and independence supporters might have softened their attitude to the China if the CCP were not in power and China were a democracy, but the reality is very different from the hypothetical.

    The current Beijing directive that compels a certain proportion of the seats of the Hong Kong Legislative Council, LegCo, to be appointed by Beijing in place of democratically elected local candidates, and the subsequent massive demonstrations over this move and the government crackdown on them in Hong Kong, are all evidence to the Taiwanese that the "one country, two systems" is a major con, a big lie. Indeed, the Taiwanese have never believed in it. They just don't trust Beijing. And who can blame them?

    The other thing is that over the last 12 years or so, since the early 2000s or about 5 years after the handover, which was enough time for Beijing to lull Hongkongers into a false sense of security and keep the locals quiet and calm for the first 5 years of Beijing's rule, there has been increasing creeping control and manipulation of Hong Kong's media by Beijing. News commentators and journalists, for example, that are even slightly critical of Beijing's actions or policies in the Territory are sacked from their positions after Beijing puts pressure on their management to get rid of them. The CCP doesn't like criticism. More proof, if more proof were needed, to the Taiwanese of Beijing's sinister intentions.

    Even Hong Kong's commercial culture has suffered from Beijing's forced meddling. Again over the last 12 years or so, the influx of mainlanders into HK has driven up property values and rents and it is increasingly difficult for locals to afford to buy their own properties and are forced to pay high rents. Many of HK's well-known, long-established local restaurants and old shops have closed because of huge increases in commercial rents. And this has changed much of the traditional and familiar face of HK's commerce and trading. More grist for the mill for the Taiwanese stance against "one country, two systems."

    No two ways about it, things are truly ominous for Hong Kong and her people. And the Taiwanese, who watch developments in HK like a hawk, know it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
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  7. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Not really news they had the policy since 49
     
  8. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    I disagree what do u expect police do when protesters black road, business and financial districts for more than 2 months. no wonder recent poll from HK shows 86% against it vs 47% against it at the beginning of protests

    As for news media there are tons new agency support it and there are also those who against it. China pretty mich leave hk along except concern over hk high lvl politic As for hk house prices its because chinese getting richer so they start buying thing. It has nothing to do with politics
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  9. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Tell that to the Taiwanese.
     
  10. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Well, that is exactly what CCP is telling the Taiwanese: either accept the current offer, or get even less with the time pass.

    Mainland may not be able to make Taiwan the Swiss of Asia, but she definitely has a lot means to make it the Greece of Asia.
     
  11. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    The CCP telling the Taiwanese to either accept the present offer or get less in the future is simply the CCP attempting to dictate terms to Taiwan and sounds like just one more threat from Beijing. The Taiwanese are tired of threats from Beijing. The fact is that the vast majority of the people of Taiwan do not want unification (not reunification) with the People's Republic of China and to be governed by the Chinese Communist Party; they do want their independence from China and to be an independent, sovereign state. Full stop. They simply do not believe that the CCP's stated policy of "one country, two systems" is said in good faith and that the CCP is sincere. In other words, the Taiwanese quite simply believe that the CCP's stated policy of "one country, two systems" is a lie, a falsehood. Beijing is trying to force or coerce the Taiwanese into accepting unification. It hasn't worked so far. The harder Beijing tries to push the Taiwanese into accepting unification with the PRC, the more Taiwanese refuse to accept it. And Beijing always trying to bully a small state like Taiwan demonstrates to the Taiwanese people Beijing's lack of good faith and lack of good will towards Taiwan and the Taiwanese people.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  12. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    It is not whether Taiwanese believe CCP or whoever else.
    It is that their fate is decided in Beijing and Washington.
    You can make the beautiful speech as much as you want, the problem is that Taiwanese people is not willing to sacrifice anything for their "independence" but empty words.
     
  13. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Well in that case the CCP are denying the Taiwanese their right to self-determination. If Taiwan's fate is being decided in Beijing, and not by the Taiwanese themselves, then that is not democratic. The PRC is not a democracy and the CCP is not a democratic political party and the Taiwanese don't want live in either the PRC or under the rule of the CCP. When the PRC invades Taiwan, we shall see how much the Taiwanese are willing to sacrifice for their independence from the People's Republic of China.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Now, would the Taiwanese people want to join Communist China?
     
  15. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    I'm Talking about hk, tawian is different issue. I doubt prc will invade Taiwan any time soon unless tawian announce independence
     
  16. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

     
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  17. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    whats the USA policy to the above. do they have any obligations.

    what about the image and profile it will do to non-PRC chinese and also agreements and treaties it has with them. taiwan wont be touched militarily.

    the invasion is probably more economic dependence and make both taiwan and PRC to be inseparable and closer together economically. there used to be the line of thought that taiwan can be made a special region like hong kong, macau but not sure how space is played out now in the intellectuals in PRC. the solution to having them become one needs a out of the box thinking and not militarily approach. it seems both communists - CPC (PRC) and democrats - KMT (ROC) want to control "China" and is waiting for one to pass away and reduce importance (especially the case for KMT wanting the communists PRC to finish). It might be old approach but its valid. One can see that by how aggressive KMT they were in taking down one of the ex-president in Taiwan. there is also the special regions in hong kong, macau that add to the mix.

    one has heard also previously where force was going to be used on hong kong to solve it. probably it ought to have according to the above general.

    what is force being used "according to the law"

    if non-PRC friendly party comes to power <-> if taiwan follows its constitution <-> if taiwan looks at observing one-china principle on its own terms <-> if taiwan declares it self to be a sovereign state.

    long way to go to reach the last part - more chance of communists becoming like KMT.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    @Compersion

    You are spot on when you state that the Communists will become like KMT.

    Communism succeed is poverty, squalor and strife domestically.

    That is slowly vanishing in China except the Muslim (Hui) dominated areas of China, where one wonders why the CPC or CCP is not concentrating their effort.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  19. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    lol @ redhawk dishing up the usual propaganda of "small section of KMT diehards and waishengren love china, everyone else in Taiwan hates China"

    The bigger reality is that the vast majority of Taiwanese just don't care about whether they are ruled by China or not. Why? Because the harms he ascribes to Chinese sovereignty over Hong Kong - self-censorship in media, rising rents, declining small and medium enterprises etc - already happen in Taiwan, and have happened regardless of whether the KMT or DPP are in power. Remaining independent is no safeguard against it. And the Taiwanese know that.

    1. Self-censorship in media happens as media firms consolidate and digitize, because both those actions cost money. With the downfall of Jimmy Lai from his lead role at Next Media, now Taiwanese media will all be dominated by pro-mainland business interests, because China is where the money for Taiwanese media comes from.

    2. The rise of China has devastated SMEs all across Asia. You simply can't compete as a small exporter of XYZ product in Taiwan/Korea/Philippines/Malaysia unless you have scale to outmuscle the 10,000-man factories in Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Korea learned scale - the bloodletting of 1997 taught many mid-sized Korean firms to merge into huge conglomerates. Taiwanese/Filipino/Malaysian firms never did, which is why China is kicking their ass out of orbit.

    3. Rising rents are also a natural outgrowth of increased globalization and taxes that favor landowners and business owners (lower capital taxes and property taxes) versus workers (high income taxes) . Taiwan, for better or worse, is an intensely globalized economy. Its politicians in either party are owned by business interests who like seeing globalization deepen in Taiwan and like seeing tax policy skew even deeper in their favor. Again, even if China left Taiwan alone, those problems would continue.

    Ultimately, though, in politics, the power to inflict pain and violence is the only real power that matters. In that regard, China's ultimate trump card over Taiwan would be its ability to completely dominate Taiwan within 72 hours while using their double agents inside the stay-behind network J M Cole and others are trying so desperately to set up to kill or capture every single 'defiant' Taiwanese that might cause trouble for a mainland occupation. For all of @Redhawk 's defiant and smug pronouncements, his side's endeavor is far more likely to fail than the countervailing endeavor the largest and most sophisticated power in Asia has embarked upon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  20. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    I disagree. What happens in HK is followed very closely by the Taiwanese people. Taiwan is not far from HK and developments there naturally affect the attitude and thinking of the Taiwanese towards unification with the PRC. To see the CCP break the conditions of the Joint Declaration with the British when the UK handed over HK to the PRC, would naturally indicate to the Taiwanese what they could expect if they agreed to unification with the PRC. Many Taiwanese justifiably think that Hong Kong's present will become Taiwan's future if the Taiwanese are forced to unify with the PRC.

    And I also disagree that the PRC will only invade Taiwan if and when the Taiwanese/ROC government formally declares Taiwan's independence and sovereignty. The PRC armed forces would move against Taiwan in an instant if they thought they could successfully invade Taiwan with impunity: that is, that international condemnation and action against any PRC aggression against Taiwan could be minimised or neutralised and rendered ineffective. I remain thoroughly and deeply sceptical of the CCP's statements on their intentions towards Taiwan and, quite sensibly, so do most Taiwanese.

    The Japanese between 1931 and 1945 invaded and occupied enormous areas of East Asia, both North-east and South-east Asia, and huge tracts of the Pacific, thousands of kilometres from the Japanese home islands. It would not be difficult for a burgeoning military and naval power like the PRC to invade an island only 394 km long and only 180 km from the Chinese coast in a few years time. Even now the Chinese coastline facing Taiwan is highly militarised with many surface-to-surface missiles emplaced in batteries there and amphibious and air forces continually exercising in the area. And the militarisation of that section of the Chinese coast which directly threatens Taiwan has been a fact of life that the Taiwanese have had to live with for decades.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014
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  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

    Taiwan watches Hong Kong because it values democracy and how Communist China works to demolish democracy and introduce its Communist dictatorship to destroy the independent mind of the people and bring in the Communist technique of mind control.

    After all Taiwan, Hong Kong people are as Chinese as the Communists. They are also aware that PRC is an pariah in observing international laws and niceties and that it is the sole Communist survivor with an insatiable hunger for expansion.

    Therefore, they are worried and so they watch.
     
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