Forget China, relax, we can't afford another war

Ray

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How about surrender ourselves to other countries, let them control our system, our thinking, our financing everything, I guess that is your solution.
空 穴 來 風 未 必 無 因 (empty+cave+come+wind+not+surely+not+cause)

If the wind comes from an empty cave, it's not without a reason.

or do you believe in

老 驥 伏 枥, 志 在 千 里 (old+thoroughbred+hidden+stable,determined+be+thousand+distance (unit)}

The old horse in the stable still yearns to run 1000 miles
 

sesha_maruthi27

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What is the reason behind the Chinese intrusion and what is their real intention in doing so and what are they trying to tell to INDIA through this? Please bring some light into this matter RAY SIR.......
 

Tshering22

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Oh yeah? How about this? Maybe you common Chinese people don't know about your government but this is the freaking reason why we're having issues with you:

[video]http://in.video.yahoo.com/[/video]
 

redragon

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How about we get a government elected by us? A thousand mile journey starts at first step.
I obsolutly against this idea at least for the coming 20 yrs, not before China becomes strong enough to resist the intervention from USA+E.U. If you do pre-mature to a country, things will go against what you want. Lybia is a fresh new example, watch it.
 
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Ray

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What is the reason behind the Chinese intrusion and what is their real intention in doing so and what are they trying to tell to INDIA through this? Please bring some light into this matter RAY SIR.......
China wants to give an impression that it is theirs.

One sees this in the animal world too, where they leave their scent to mark their territory,
 

redragon

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How about we get a government elected by us? A thousand mile journey starts at first step.
Not like you, I don't like empty, non-practical idea, I don't need to catering others just because I want them to accept me or say good thing about me.
 

redragon

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Oh yeah? How about this? Maybe you common Chinese people don't know about your government but this is the freaking reason why we're having issues with you:

[video]http://in.video.yahoo.com/[/video]
One last time to you, average Chinese know more than what you willing to believe, actually, average Chinese know much more than average India. Stop posting those outdated info.
 

Ray

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One last time to you, average Chinese know more than what you willing to believe, actually, average Chinese know much more than average India. Stop posting those outdated info.
I think that would be delusional.

You did not even know of Nathu la, Chola or Sumdorong Chu.

If the data is outdated, do be good enough to give the latest rather than merely give a bland statement that is of no use to man or beast!
 

Dovah

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One last time to you, average Chinese know more than what you willing to believe, actually, average Chinese know much more than average India. Stop posting those outdated info.
Got any statistics to back your point up?
 

Tshering22

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One last time to you, average Chinese know more than what you willing to believe, actually, average Chinese know much more than average India. Stop posting those outdated info.
You cannot live with the reality because you're made to obey this. Unless you lot come out of your party's brainwashing, how can there be peace?

Talking about knowledge, any Chinese member I've spoken to, doesn't know anything except 1962 conflict. That's a fine ignorance.
 

amoy

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Originally Posted by kickok1975
How about we get a government elected by us? A thousand mile journey starts at first step.
Let's first of all have a set of KPI (Key Performance Index) to measure how the incumbent ruling party performs. On basis of the track reacord and vision it provides we'll draw a conclusion on our own, also in reference to what other countries in a simliar size are performing with their 'democracy', such as Russia, Brazil and India.

As for Sino India status quo I think we already have peace, albeit 'cold peace'. It can't be worse, nor better
 

mattster

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Kickok1975 really pessimistic view may have been spurred by the recent anouncement in China that the CCP is going to further Clamp down on Boggers and Internet freedom. Everything from Bloggers, Twitter acounts, reality shows.
There are fewer avenues for freedom of expression in China. I think the CCP is slowly start to panic. They need to control the flow of information but they cant do it without controlling the Internet in China !!!


Here is the article from the NYTimes

China Reins In Entertainment and Blogging

By SHARON LAFRANIERE, MICHAEL WINES and EDWARD WONG
Published: October 26, 2011

BEIJING — Political censorship in this authoritarian state has long been heavy-handed. But for years, the Communist Party has tolerated a creeping liberalization in popular culture, tacitly allowing everything from popular knockoffs of "American Idol"-style talent shows to freewheeling microblogs that let media groups prosper and let people blow off steam.

Whether spooked by popular uprisings worldwide, a coming leadership transition at home or their own citizens' increasingly provocative tastes, Communist leaders are proposing new limits on media and Internet freedoms that include some of the most restrictive measures in years.

The most striking instance occurred Tuesday, when the State Administration of Radio, Film and Television ordered 34 major satellite television stations to limit themselves to no more than two 90-minute entertainment shows each per week, and collectively 10 nationwide. They are also being ordered to broadcast two hours of state-approved news every evening and to disregard audience ratings in their programming decisions. The ministry said the measures, to go into effect on Jan. 1, were aimed at rooting out "excessive entertainment and vulgar tendencies."

The restrictions arrived as party leaders signaled new curbs on China's short-message, Twitter-like microblogs, an Internet sensation that has mushroomed in less than two years into a major — and difficult to control — source of whistle-blowing. Microbloggers, some of whom have attracted millions of followers, have been exposing scandals and official malfeasance, including an attempted cover-up of a recent high-speed rail accident, with astonishing speed and popularity.

On Wednesday, the Communist Party's Central Committee called in a report on its annual meeting for an "Internet management system" that would strictly regulate social network and instant-message systems, and punish those who spread "harmful information." The focus of the meeting, held this month, was on culture and ideology.

Analysts and employees inside the private companies that manage the microblogs say party officials are pressing for increasingly strict and swift censorship of unapproved opinions. Perhaps most telling, the authorities are discussing requiring microbloggers to register accounts with their real names and identification numbers instead of the anonymous handles now in wide use.

Although China's most famous bloggers tend to use their own names, requiring everyone to do so would make online whistle-blowing and criticism of officialdom — two public services not easily duplicated elsewhere — considerably riskier.

It would "definitely be harmful to free speech," said one microblog editor who refused to be named for fear of reprisal.

This newly buttoned-down approach coincides with a planned shift in the top leadership of the ruling party and government, an intricate process that will last for the next year. During such a period, tolerance for outspokenness outside official channels tends to shrink, and bureaucrats eager for promotion show their conservative stripes.

The crackdown also follows popular uprisings across the Middle East that appear to have given China's leaders pause regarding their own hold on absolute power. In the view of some, it also tracks the influence in China's ruling hierarchy of hard-liners like Zhou Yongkang, the public security chief who helped preside over the suppression of riots by ethnic Uighurs in western China's Xinjiang region.

On Tuesday, Xinhua, the state news agency, reported that Mr. Zhou was urging authorities "to solve problems regarding social integrity, morality and Internet management" and that he had called for "the early introduction of laws and regulations on the management of the Internet," among other things.

Nobody outside China's closeted leadership knows the true reason for the maneuvers, beyond a general and intangible sense of uneasiness over the degree to which freer speech is taking root here.

The microblogs, or weibos, are perhaps the prime example. In the last year, weibos have become the forum of choice for Chinese to pass on news and gossip about scandals involving government and the elite. The two largest, run by the privately held Sina Corporation and Tencent Holdings, each count more than 200 million registered users.

In the face of official censorship, their weibos are filled with salacious tales of official malfeasance, such as a July frenzy — photographs included — over a Yunnan Province city official's sex orgy. Industry insiders say the principal weibo (pronounced way-bwah) regulators, based in Beijing and the Shenzhen Communist Party Internet offices, have been assailed by government leaders elsewhere for allowing the scandals to spread online unchecked.

In fact, the government could easily shut down microblogs. Officials disconnected the entire Internet in Xinjiang for 10 months after the ethnic riots there in 2009. But their growing popularity makes that highly unlikely. The number of users has quadrupled in a single year.

Song Jianwu, dean of the school of journalism and communication at China University of Political Science and Law, said Chinese leaders accepted the need for such outlets for expression. But in the case of weibos, he added, "they are also concerned that this safety valve could turn into an explosive device."

He said the government might gradually require more and more users to register under their real names, while demanding that operators monitor posts more closely. "I think they will do it in a step-by-step fashion," he said. "We hope and we have suggested that they will do it in manner that is not antagonistic."

Some changes are already evident. Besides the in-house monitors who already scan posts for forbidden topics, operators in recent months have bolstered "rumor refutal" departments, staffed by editors, to investigate and knock down information deemed false.

Top officials, including Liu Qi, the party secretary of Beijing, have held publicized visits to microblog companies, sometimes accompanied by popular microbloggers, in which he urged people to uphold social order and the proper ideology — and implying that their own status in official eyes would depend on their cooperation.

State restrictions on television are murkier. The rules ostensibly apply to CCTV-1, the general programming channel of Central China Television, but not to CCTV-3, which specializes in arts and entertainment, according to a report in the English-language edition of Global Times, an official newspaper.

Many people in the industry have interpreted the decree and earlier measures by central officials as attempts to bolster the ratings of CCTV against the onslaught of entertainment shows produced by satellite stations, which have been wildly successful. Last year, officials told producers of "If You Are the One," a popular dating show on Jiangsu Satellite Television, to tone down the program. Last month, the authorities suspended a talent show on Hunan Satellite Television, "Super Girl," for exceeding a broadcast time limit.

Many industry observers said the show may have been offensive for other reasons, including prompting home viewers to show support for their favorite contestants through cellphone texting, an action akin to voting. The shutdown of "Super Girl" was taken as a warning throughout the television industry and presaged the new rules.

Bill Bishop, a business consultant and media industry analyst in Beijing, wrote on his blog, DigiCha, that the new limits could drive television viewers to look for entertainment on the Internet. On the other hand, he added, officials might be preparing restrictions for online video content. "The trend in China appears to be towards more, not less, regulation," he wrote. "Investors may want to consider factoring in greater regulatory risk."
 
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Known_Unknown

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^^I have a few Chinese friends with whom I've chatted about these things once in a while. Their general opinion is that people are scared to express themselves freely about politics in China. Anyone can make a false complaint about anyone else, and hence when you try to discuss politics, people will say that they're "not interested" or will change the topic to something else. At the moment, the CCP is delivering on economic progress, hence most people will not publicly challenge the government for other freedoms, but the view is that if this economic progress halts to a grind for whatever reason, there could be massive unrest across the country.
 

charlyondfi

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Kickok1975 points are exactly what every Taiwanese believes: we know China want to unite Taiwan in certain period, but the point is "while making a peaceful engagement with China as possible, we remove us (Taiwan) from the top of list of numerous problems CCP has to handle"... ...

Allow me to contribute that "enormous list"
6. Failing environmental & effect -- soon the people die of cancer in lungs, livers, skin, will climb to highest in world (no link, yet, sorry). The image "Chinese enjoy better health benefit than India" is a total illusion
7. "One-Child" birth policy & its impact: the other day the hottest topic now in Shanghai is a 16-years old PhD student (yes, you hear me right: 16-years in PhD) but insist his parents to buy a house for him exclusively first, or he will drop his study -- his poor parents can't afford actually, but he just does NOT care. How can you expect these kids/people will protect their families, let alone his country
8. The "stuck" between a minimal 8% economy growth, or CCP believe it will doom to social un-nerve, & resulted issues: inflation, balance with entrepreneur,
9. Another environmental: the never-ending "desert" growth, now have reached its alert -- at this rate, ~30 years later Beijing will also become desert
...
Heck, the "globalization" restriction at CCP in handling all issues: a good example is it simply can NOT easily drop those US$ reservation like 80 years ago, as it does NOT know what will happen (although I still believe, as a country leader, sometimes it's NOT that hard to reach such decision)

Each of these is "Himalaya" problem, without easy, short solution. It's really hard to think how China can afford another middle to big scale war... ...
 
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Ray

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The Chinese Communists are wise people.

Their history has indicated that allowing secret societies, freedom of speech, thought and action, economic turmoil, social turmoil leads to revolutions.

They are aware of the fact that The Taiping Rebellion against the Qing Dynasty was a widespread civil war in southern China from 1850 to 1864 was led by Christian convert Hong Xiuquan. He claimed he received visions and maintained that he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ, About 20 million people died, mainly civilians, in one of the deadliest military conflicts in history. He established the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom with its capital at Nanjing.

It will be interesting to note that Sun Yat-sen, founder of the Chinese Nationalist Party, took the rebellion as an inspiration, and Mao Zedong glorified the Taiping rebels as early heroic revolutionaries against a corrupt feudal system. More recently, some apparatchiks in China have questioned the destruction that the rebellion caused to the Chinese nation, plus the dangers of radical religiosity.


It is worth noting that Hong Xiuquan and Sun Yat Sen were both Christians and both great revolutionaries of China. Maybe that is why the Chinese fear Christianity and does not allow the Vatican to control the Church!

Also interesting is that both Hong Xiuquan and Sun Yat Sen were Southerners and belonged to Hakka Families! Mao Tse Tung was also a Southerner!

The Southern Chinese appear to be the more intelligent ones and great revolutionaries.

Even today, most of China's problems appear to be South China based!

One may think that Mao was a peasant, but he may have been so, yet he was a sensitive person with great flair for arts like writing of poems.

Here is one of those that I find alluring, with powerful illustration so beautifully penned to highlight!

One watches the unyielding pines in the vast azure sunset
And the fleeting clouds below in seeming chaos yet majestically moving.
Here beside the cave of the Taoist Immortals one sees that boundless beauty
is to be found only among the most dangerous peaks.
 
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Ray

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Kickok1975 points are exactly what every Taiwanese believes: we know China want to unite Taiwan in certain period, but the point is "while making a peaceful engagement with China as possible, we remove us (Taiwan) from the top of list of numerous problems CCP has to handle"... ...

Allow me to contribute that "enormous list"
6. Failing environmental & effect -- soon the people die of cancer in lungs, livers, skin, will climb to highest in world (no link, yet, sorry). The image "Chinese enjoy better health benefit than India" is a total illusion
7. "One-Child" birth policy & its impact: the other day the hottest topic now in Shanghai is a 16-years old PhD student (yes, you hear me right: 16-years in PhD) but insist his parents to buy a house for him exclusively first, or he will drop his study -- his poor parents can't afford actually, but he just does NOT care. How can you expect these kids/people will protect their families, let alone his country
8. The "stuck" between a minimal 8% economy growth, or CCP believe it will doom to social un-nerve, & resulted issues: inflation, balance with entrepreneur,
9. Another environmental: the never-ending "desert" growth, now have reached its alert -- at this rate, ~30 years later Beijing will also become desert
...
Heck, the "globalization" restriction at CCP in handling all issues: a good example is it simply can NOT easily drop those US$ reservation like 80 years ago, as it does NOT know what will happen (although I still believe, as a country leader, sometimes it's NOT that hard to reach such decision)

Each of these is "Himalaya" problem, without easy, short solution. It's really hard to think how China can afford another middle to big scale war... ...
China is doing well.

China should quit this oneupmanship game of doing the 'fastest, bestest, biggest, strongest, widest', et al.

Instead it should weigh what is important and scientifically approach each issue with great care so that it benefits its present, as also, its future.
 

jat

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6. Failing environmental & effect -- soon the people die of cancer in lungs, livers, skin, will climb to highest in world (no link, yet, sorry). The image "Chinese enjoy better health benefit than India" is a total illusion
7. "One-Child" birth policy & its impact: the other day the hottest topic now in Shanghai is a 16-years old PhD student (yes, you hear me right: 16-years in PhD) but insist his parents to buy a house for him exclusively first, or he will drop his study -- his poor parents can't afford actually, but he just does NOT care. How can you expect these kids/people will protect their families, let alone his country
8. The "stuck" between a minimal 8% economy growth, or CCP believe it will doom to social un-nerve, & resulted issues: inflation, balance with entrepreneur,
9. Another environmental: the never-ending "desert" growth, now have reached its alert -- at this rate, ~30 years later Beijing will also become desert
...
Heck, the "globalization" restriction at CCP in handling all issues: a good example is it simply can NOT easily drop those US$ reservation like 80 years ago, as it does NOT know what will happen (although I still believe, as a country leader, sometimes it's NOT that hard to reach such decision)

Each of these is "Himalaya" problem, without easy, short solution. It's really hard to think how China can afford another middle to big scale war... ...
Seems like this is more of an issue with tradition meeting modernization. I guess its a lack of rather than having. The cultural revolution destroyed Chinese culture for what the Soviets had to offer.
Modernization of the societal structure needs to happen willingly not forced. China can not afford to be social modern like the United States of Japan. These two nations are rich and can afford social programs unlike China and India which would go bankrupt even at the thought of it.
Family traditions need to be strong and a village needs to be strong.
My girlfriend was in China for about 4 months and found that family had less importance sometimes compared to Chinese living abroad but the most notable difference was lack of community unity. Its almost rampant MOB justice or public leaching was is fine a third world country but...
I dunno, I personally grew up in the Punjab and community is very strong there.
Perhaps the will of average Chinese people is broken or was it flooded with money?
 

Ray

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That is right, the non China Chinese, like in Calcutta, have very strong family ties!

I am surprised at the blackmail the PhD student is resorting to where his poor parents are made to suffer. What that chap requires is a good hiding.

This One Child policy is producing spoilt brats!
 

jat

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China is doing well.

China should quit this oneupmanship game of doing the 'fastest, bestest, biggest, strongest, widest', et al.

Instead it should weigh what is important and scientifically approach each issue with great care so that it benefits its present, as also, its future.
Everything CCP does has PR value. They are not going to quit when its working on the masses. Having large parades and propaganda brigades help them control the masses more effectively than religion sometimes.
I do agree that the CCP probably has a lot A LOT of wasted funds in production lines that don't turn up profit. But it was either domestic production or Russia, and thats not a lot of choices.
 

Tianshan

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The cultural revolution destroyed Chinese culture for what the Soviets had to offer.
no, nothing can destroy chinese culture.

the ccp already admitted that the cultural revolution was wrong.
 

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