Forget China, relax, we can't afford another war

Discussion in 'China' started by kickok1975, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,538
    Likes Received:
    350
    We already have a huge war going on with no victory in sight:

    1. Fight rampant corruption as an egg nested from our no check and balance political system and a government rotted in core
    2. Fight our huge wealth inequality where 1% rich and powerful control 60% of national wealth and manipulate the rest of population
    3. Fight our stone-cold “modern” culture where justice, conscience have been disappeared while greediness, selfishness prevail
    4. Fight our ailing economy where 60% GDP growth comes from real estate investment and government spending; a booming state owned industry and a dying private business
    5. ………

    China has more problems than you can imagine. We are not as strong as it appears. History repeatly shows China was stronger when she was weak but vice versa. Our ancient dynasty usually fall prey to much less developed and weak opponents when it got rich and complacent. Today’s China is like a giant who is diagnosed with tumour but hasn’t started chemical therapy yet. CCP knows it but have no courage to change it due to their party selfishness and acquired interest. That’s why its policy is representing a classic ailing dictatorship symptom: screaming loud to outside world as if the government is tough while silently does anything to hold grip, oppress people domestically in order to maintain its power. The least thing CCP want is a war with any major country, let alone a coalition of several major countries. Because it’s not in CCP’s interest and obliviously it can’t afford the consequence of losing a war: People will rise up and overthrow this corrupted, illegitimate regime which is not by the people, and for the people. So, just sit back relax and enjoy the peaceful time. There is no war anytime soon
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
    charlyondfi, p2prada, Neil and 8 others like this.
  2.  
  3. Tomcat

    Tomcat Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    184
    Location:
    Sharjah United Arab Emirates
    but kickoff could you tell this to guys like Lol here Pls
     
  4. Phenom

    Phenom Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    878
    Likes Received:
    401
    kickok,

    This is a defense and strategic forum, we have to talk and fight with someone. If you notice the threads in the forum, you'll see a regular pattern, we fight with the Chinese, then we fight the Pakistani then we fight among ourselves over religion and region. After that it starts all over again :)
     
    Dovah, W.G.Ewald, Param and 1 other person like this.
  5. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    Ha ha ha that's true !!!!!
     
  6. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Earth
    That's what you say, but another chinese guy here called "badguy" says exactly the opposite. Besides, though individual chinese people may be nice and warm-hearted, they have no say in the workings of their dictatorial government, hence China's neighbours have to always be wary of the CCP's intentions.

    Chinese people may not want war, but that's not the same thing as the CCP not wanting war. In fact, it is exactly in times of domestic trouble that regimes have historically tried to incite a war so as to unite the country against a common foreign enemy.
     
    Illusive likes this.
  7. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,507
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    Don't care about trolls!!!
    The flags can very easily be altered. It could very well be a pukistani, or some creepy guy too
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,158
    Location:
    EST, USA
    Well, KickOk1979 and BadGuy2000 are really from PRC, and the former is quite respected by all.
     
    sesha_maruthi27, Kunal Biswas and Ray like this.
  9. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    15,625
    Likes Received:
    11,703
    @kickok1975 we all have our own problems, but real problem start, when in order to hide internal problem, someone will try to misdirect countrymen attention by play mischief and attack another for any reason.
     
  10. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    249
    all true.

    but since when do "facts" matter in a world where people make up their mind based on fear or greed.

    i say let them continue to dream of china collapsing, or starting ww3. if it makes them feel better, then they can do it.
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    31,663
    Likes Received:
    17,158
    Location:
    EST, USA
    We do not dream of anything. We are working to prevent a repetition of past incidents, which are very real. Also, PRC's role w.r.t. Pakistan makes it difficult for us to trust these declarations of peace and friendship. This is the harsh reality.
     
  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,523
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Indeed, God gives each of us 2 ears but 1 mouth. Emperor Li Shimin of Tang Dynasty said "Listening to only one side to the story makes u live in the darkness. Listening to different sides to the story gives u light".

    So, let seemingly opposite info keep flowing in

    Things are like different versions offsetting one another -
    CCP is rotten to the core vs. CCP is a self transforming pioneer for progress
    China is gonna collapse vs. China is meandering ahead
    China is warmongering vs. China is a dove
    China is coveting neighbors territories vs. China is defending...

    At your discretion anyway. Or most people often choose to believe what they would like to believe.

    Of course there's another Chinese saying "seeing is believing"
     
    A.V. likes this.
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    That is true, but then you are able to control it because of your system of governance.

    China is quite strong, and you are merely being polite.

    However, given the Theory of Legalism, you are mentally attuned to listen to your government.

    That makes all the difference.
     
  14. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,022
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    delhi
    our defence should wipe out the need for aggression
     
  15. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,523
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    In 1911 ROC was founded after Qing Dynasty was overthrown in a revolution which was initiated furious Sichuan people against the government's attempt to 'nationalize' railway projects which many Sichuan commoners invested in, without compensation.

    In 1949 PRC replaced ROC after a 22-year revolution.

    and Cultural Revolution, in which many bureacrats and "traditions" were actually pulled down.

    In 1989 the dissidence movement was actually triggered by rocketing inflation rate, and corruption primarily.

    Again and again "Theory of Legalism" failed to keep Chinese "mentally attuned to listen to your government" . Instead, comparatively speaking Chinese are less tolerant of status quo.

    A simple question, what's the most updated CPI or inflation rate in India?
     
  16. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5,326
    Likes Received:
    1,493
    I thought it was done by students who were inspired by all the revolutions in USSR and the other people did not support them, because the memories of Mao's red guards atrocities were fresh in the peoples minds.Add to that wasn't there a leader who backed the students against the government in a power struggle against Deng not remembering his name..
     
    redragon likes this.
  17. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    36
    After I finish the first sentence, I can't help but shaking my head, you are an excellent example to show that altough a lot Indian members know little about outside world and history, but still sound like guru.
    I like your post, showing foundmental difference between Indian and Chinese.
     
  18. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    36
    How about surrender ourselves to other countries, let them control our system, our thinking, our financing everything, I guess that is your solution.
     
  19. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,538
    Likes Received:
    350
    How about we get a government elected by us? A thousand mile journey starts at first step.
     
    pmaitra and nrj like this.
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    The Qing were Manchus and could rule for 300 years in an orderly and prosperous manner, thanks to Legalism.

    It was so orderly that the French philosopher Voltaire praised the Chinese for having the most effectively organized government that the world had ever seen. European thinkers admired the powerful and learned Qing rulers as “enlightened despots,” and advised their own kings to copy Chinese methods of government.


    Bad harvests, warfare, rebellions, overpopulation, economic disasters, and foreign imperialism contributed to the dynasty’s collapse. A revolution erupted in October 1911. In 1912 the boy emperor Xuantong (Hsüan-t’ung, commonly known as Henry Pu Yi) abdicated, or stepped down, from the throne.

    What happens when there is a trade imbalance between two major trading countries? Just ask Great Britain and China. It’s hard to get by when the country you need goods from does not really need to trade goods with you. This is what happened with Great Britain and the Qing Dynasty. There was a high demand for China’s tea in Great Britain but a low demand for Britain’s goods in China. Great Britain was in debt with China and they had to do something to get out. As a result, they turned to selling silver to make the imbalance better. China could care less about Great Britain’s silver so Great Britain was still behinds in payments.

    When selling silver did not work they began selling opium. Opium is an addictive drug grown in India, smoked from a pipe that comes from the seed of the papaver somniferum plant. China’s people became quickly addicted to the drug and traded silver, originally from Great Britain to get opium. Opium was illegal and China wanted the trade of opium to stop. China tried to make new restrictions against foreign merchants and ships and Great Britain did not like this idea and fought back resulting in the Opium War. Of course Britain came out on top because they had better artillery, forcing China to sign the Treaty of Nanjing. This was only the beginning of Western influence in China because now more ports were open to foreign merchants. All trade was put under European control causing more western ideas, foreigners, and cultures to spread into China.

    Who wants to live in a place with famine, bandits, droughts, and floods? Early Chinese villagers certainly did not. China was already struggling with its economy and life was becoming worrisome and hard for villagers. They were not satisfied with their living conditions and the result of the villagers’ anger was not a good one. In 1850, one of the bloodiest civil wars this world has ever seen broke out, The Taiping Rebellion (Stefoff 55). The leader of this rebellion was Christian leader, Hung Xiuguan. He claimed to have the responsibility of destroying the Qing Dynasty, a responsibility given to him by God. Hung Xiuguan and his rebels captured Nanjing and Hung Xiuguan renamed it Taiping Tien-Kuo or The Heavenly Dynasty of Perfect Peace. In the process about 25,000 men, women, and children were killed. New rules and regulations were made affecting many people for ten years. Of course china was not able to deal with this alone but with the help of the western powers, (the same people causing them some many problems) Nanjing was eventually restored.20 million more people were killed while trying to recapture Nanjing.



    Economically speaking, the Qing government faced a great problem about it. The government spent too much on the military aspect. And also the luxurious life of the Ching ruler had coasted a great sum of money, the serious corruption of the government worsened the economic problem. By 1800 the economic foundation of the Ching Empire had been badly weakened! By the way the population of Ching increased obviously, there was not enough land, many people had no arable land to farm, and the unemployed often turned to banditry or became recruits for rebel’s outfits.

    The last 100 years of China was nothing but problems. Rebellion, wars and civil wars, pressure from foreigners, and foreign immigrants spreading their ideas and cultures throughout China. China let the foreigners get by with too much and the foreigners took advantage of China’s weaknesses. The dynasty got weaker and weaker as time progressed.

    Therefore, the Theory of Legalism worked, but under the starvation, corruption, poor administration and the foreigners practically dictating terms and shattering the Chinese economy, it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

    This should also indicate why the Communist are so worried about dissensions, poor economy, social unrest and foreign religions. The CCP possibly cannot forget that the Taiping Rebellion's leader was Christian leader, Hung Xiuguan. He, true to the Theory of Legalism, claimed to have the responsibility of destroying the Qing Dynasty, a responsibility given to him by God.

    ROC fell because of the same reasons why the Qing Dynasty fell, but the timeframe was shorter, way much shorter.

    The Cultural Revolution was CCP/Govt inspired. It was possible to organise the Red Guards because of the Theory of Legalism or else who would go running around the countryside destroying everything or being brainwashed with homilies and high sounding slogans which were pure hot air. It was Legalism that helped Mao to distract the people from the miseries and bad economy caused by the Great Leap Forward and the Three Years of Natural Disasters which would have led to possibly an environment similar to the reasons of the fall of the Qing Dynasty and ROC (except that there were no foreign invasions).

    Mao was clever to keep China isolated from foreign influence by banning religion (thus removing the powerful influence of the Church) and having practically no economic ties with the West having seen the devastation and suppression of the Chinese they had done in recent times before his take over.

    The fact that a foreign dynasty (the Qing) could rule for 300 years is an indicator that the Chinese love status quo, so long as they can prosper.
     
    p2prada and sesha_maruthi27 like this.
  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    6,552
    India and China need to look at the positive things they share, the ability to shake of bad past histories and pull almost 1 billion people out of poverty is an unprecedented event in human history and should be celebrated by both.
     
    kickok1975 and SPIEZ like this.

Share This Page