Foreign intervention in the Indian Subcontinent

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by Bushra Aziz, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. Bushra Aziz

    Bushra Aziz Regular Member

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    Sooner or later India and Pakistan have to trust each other. Both the countries are already working on CBMs. What is wrong in conducting a Joint Navy Exercise as a first step? Why both the countries want foreign nations to help them to protect their strategic assets. India is repeating the mistake which Pakistan did by joining as Non NATO ally. What Pakistan got was blackmail and interference in the internal affairs.
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Ma'am,

    Please open a new thread and introduce yourself here: Introductions & Greetings

    Also, welcome to DFI.

    -Regards-
     
  4. Bushra Aziz

    Bushra Aziz Regular Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Thank you very much for a warm welcome. I ensure you that I will abide by all the rules and regulations.
    Regards
     
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  5. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    I think Pakistan and India are not comparable. Pakistan, for most part of its relation with US was asymmetrical that of a master and slave due to acceptance of doles from US through out the relationship. OTOH, India is economically and strategically independent of US and therefore the relations will be based on equality and mutual interests rather than that of a poodle to US. So I think India can handle itself and need to toe the line of US on everything like Pakistan did.
     
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  6. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    CBM?? Really? :lol:

    Like denying all the work done by Kasab?

    Like Opening fire at borders and refuting ceasefire resulting in causalities at Indian side?

    Like spreading rumors through MMS and false propaganda sites etc to show Buddhist monks doing mass murders of Muslims in Burma and inciting Indian muslims to threaten and kill NE Indians and do riots?

    India has not allowed itself to be became a proxy like Pakistan which US used against USSR and China using against India.
     
  7. ALBY

    ALBY Elite Member Elite Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Fckin assholes they are allowing US navy to enter into our waters.The history had taught everyone that US won't vacate a place once it had been occupied by them no matter what happens.Its a utter shame that now days we are emerging as a puppet regime of USA.The next thing they are ask is for bases for their special forces in our land to keep regional security and our govt whether
    Congress or bjp will simply oblige to that demand.fcuk
     
  8. Bushra Aziz

    Bushra Aziz Regular Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    You are right.

    Somebody needs to ponder why the former Indian Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee, who is now President of India, refused to disclose the details of his discussions when he met Indian Chief of Army Staff General V K Singh in February 2012. Is it democracy? The first stab on the back of Indian democracy is that Washington deals with individuals not the democratically elected representatives. What do you think; a poor country like India can afford 80 billion dollars military shopping in next five years. Does anyone have an answer where the money is coming from? The free military hardware and equipment, which appears to the outsiders as “Aid” in the case of Pakistan, are soft loans and sometimes interest free to drag the country into debts and get foreign interests served. How many times Islamabad is able to use these impressive military stocks against India or any other country…None sir. Same way, India will also never be allowed to use any weapon against so called allies and partners. No one can deny the fact that today India is not a free country Does anyone really think that India’s relationship with US is based on equality and mutual interests and not that of a poodle to US. How can anyone forget that the Indian delegation which visited US to investigate Mumbai Attacks of 2008 was not allowed even to interview David Headley? Presently, only such a relationship exists and this is going to continue unless New Delhi rejects all forms of charities.

    As regard to comments on CBM and Ajmal Kasab. It was conspiracy against India and Pakistan. Why till today this filthy person like Kasab has not been hanged nor the architect and financer David Headley has been handed over to India. One thing very few people have noticed that why at the start of Mumbai attacks, Britain accepted that her citizens are involved in the attacks. The other thing is that Ajmal Kasab claims to be hailing from Pakistani city of Okara, where language spoken but “Kasab” is neither a Punjabi word nor name/caste of any other person in Pakistana. The word is only spoken in India and by some immigrants in Karachi. In whole of Punjab the butcher is called “Kassai” not “Kasab”.

    The other point is that does one really think that Buddhists are killing Muslims in Myanmar (Burma)? No sir, they are very peace loving people… it is foreign DIAs and agencies which have come into action. The Cyber Commands are misleading the people of Myanmar Assam to migrate to other Muslim dominated areas in India and Bangladesh.It is time for both India and Pakistan to open their eyes.
     
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  9. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Firstly, welcome to the forum!

    What meeting are you inferring to?

    The government of India is the democratically elected representative of all Indians.

    Indian GDP is almost $2 trillion USD ($1.848 trillion USD to be exact), so $80 billion over 5 years is peanuts for India. Secondly, unlike Pakistan, when we buy weapons, we strip them of any gear which comes with strings attached. We refuse to sign onto agreements such as the Logistics Support Agreement and other such deals which restrict us to the US tune. This means that many weapons we buy, such as the recent C-130s or P-8Is, come stripped of communications and other such gear. We simply replace those components with our own or European and Israeli gear. Our weapons markets are also a lot more diverse than Pakistan. Majority of our weapons come from Europe, Israel and Russia, not the US.

    Again, India has not signed onto any deals with the US which makes it an American "poodle" like Pakistan. We openly oppose the US on the international stage where our interests diverge, such as Syria and Iran, and openly work with the US where our interests converge, such as Afghanistan.

    Secondly, it is your misgiving that India gets aid from the US. India is not Pakistan so it is useless to compare the two.

    India can well afford it's weapons. Here is the difference between India and Pakistan illustrated:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Pakistan's GDP is $211 billion while India's is $1.848 trillion. That means India can outspend Pakistan based on a GDP which is 9 times the size of Pakistan's economy. The question of charity does not arise here!


    Ajmal Kasab is an illiterate person and the name "Kasab" is not an official name, it is a loose name to describe him. That said, since you know of Punjab so much, you'll know that poor peasants like Ajmal Kasab largely do not have registered or documented names per se. The rural peasants are largely given names through word of mouth, and have little papers to show for it. That said, as far as Indians are concerned, it is not just Kasab, but your very own Hafeez Saaed and countless others who openly celebrate the Mumbai attacks and talk of more to come, so we are fully convinced that Pakistanis are involved. If you wish to believe in conspiracy theories, sure, you may well do so, but your country will continue to suffer the consequences on international platforms. It is better yet to introspect and call out your military rulers to clean up their act. Conspiracy theories only look good inside Pakistan, not outside.


    Again, that's a wild conspiracy theory and it is easy to come up with them sitting behind a computer. However, if you truly believe it is so, than there is nothing stopping you from taking a trip down to Mayanmar and proving us wrong.
     
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  10. ALBY

    ALBY Elite Member Elite Member

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    Rightly said tronic ....I didn't have any opposition in India importing US equipment if it is better than those offered by rest of the world.But there are some grey areas which needs attention ie inspecting of our weapons by US officials.Who the hell are they to peep into ours?after all we bought them after giving the correct price and not under any charity aid. Who gave them the right to say us what to do in international matters like Syria and Iran?For the utter shame to our sovereignty the govt is just playing puppet of Uncle Sam in UN instead of protecting our national interests.
    As bushra pointed out why they are holding headly in USA instead of handing him over to us?It strengthens the allegations surrounding his loyalties.Plus by allowing US navy to patrol through our waters we are just acting like thaiwan or Kuwait or south Korea.It is not gonna to be of national interest considering the opportunists diplomcy of USA. Considering myanmar the human right violations there are not a new thing and coming to the case of Muslims both junta and opposition had joined their hands in that matter.I wonder if America didn't show interest in liberating people of burma after solving Syria as Burma too has energy potential:)
     
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  11. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    You can't first agree to inspections and than say "who the hell are they?". The US already has those laws in place, the decision is up to India to buy or not. India has chosen not to buy more sensitive frontline weapons such as fighter aircraft and the like. France just got a $15 billion contract for Rafales. If the US doesn't want to loose out to other countries in sale of weapons, they will eventually have to change those laws in relation to India. It's pure and simple business.


    The American people gave them the right to look after American interests, but, who took away your right to say "no"? No one.

    Please show me this. As far as I can see, India has been voting against the US in favour of Assad at the UN, and Manmohan Singh just visited Iran to talk about oil trade and Syria with Ahmednijad:

    Manmohan set for Iran NAM summit with oil, Syria crisis on agenda
    Manmohan’s visit to boost Iran-India ties: Indian official

    And it is actually the US which is looking like the "puppet" :rolleyes: :

    US is forced to grin and bear Manmohan Singh’s trip to Iran | Firstpost

    Because he's a US citizen who made a deal with the FBI to stand in trial against Tahawwur Hussain Rana in exchange for protection from prosecution by India. America's goodwill must be recognized in the fact that they allowed Indian Intelligence Bureau and RAW to interrogate two American citizens, Headley and Rana, inside the US! If you still can't appreciate the significance of that action than just imagine the significance of American agents coming to India to interrogate Indian citizens! Never before in history could that be imagined, nor would any other country allow Indian agents access to interrogate its citizens in the manner the US did.


    That's complete hogwash! Give me sources. India does not allow any other navy than the Indian navy to patrol it's territorial waters.

    Makes no sense. Every country in the world looks after its own national interests.

    It should've already happened had that been the plan. Suu Kyi has already made her way to the Parliament, nevermind the fact that India and China would never allow the US inside Burma. Let's not forget what happened when Sri Lanka started to drift towards the US in the 80s.
     
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  12. Bushra Aziz

    Bushra Aziz Regular Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Sirs, Impressed by the presentation but if Indian economy is so strong why hundreds and thousands of Indians are migrating to Pakistan due to poverty and unemployment? If anyone has doubt, just visit New Karachi or any Kachi Abadis in the suburb. I don’t have any intension of wining this discussion. We are on the same side, so our goal post is also one and the same. India is your country so you have every right to do whatever you like. What I am trying to do is to remove misunderstanding between India and Pakistan without damaging each other’s ego. However, the data you are relying is from western sources. How could an organization or person living in US know that how many Indians live in Chandigarh, Jharkhand, Ahmedabad, Chittoor or elsewhere and what is the Hindu: Sikh: Muslim ratio. Ironically, the Indian census department is ignorant of the latest figures but you will find monthly update on CIA Fact book. No doubt, the data is so twisted to serve western interests. If some one is not ready to accept fact that some one is kicking him and claims that the other person is playing football with him what can anyone do. I agree with all the points you have mentioned but I did not write all this stuff to prove India wrong. Can you deny that there huge corruption in the procurements of defense material in India? Do you really think this 80 billion will go under a single heading “Modernization of Armed Forces”? If you are comfortable with the western intruders, please go ahead. Your fate will not be different from Pakistan.
    Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was deadly against western interference and the country did not borrow even a single penny from any western nation. Despite all the problems in the initial months of independence Pakistan first budget was surplus with a number of development schemes. Till September 1948, the western intruders could not dare interfere but his death brought the wise men of Gotham. Pakistan joined SEATO and CENTO in 1950ies instead of fostering regional powers. We still have time to mend our ways. Go and see what has happened to Indian educational system due to notorious concept of privatization. Where are Indian values?
    Specifically focusing on Indian Armed Forces, Indian Navy is without sufficient warships and submarines, which may protect India waters… what to talk about high seas or Indian Ocean. You have uninvited guests at the mouth of your waters. Can you tell them pack up? You have Israelis sitting right at New Delhi and troubled areas. What DIA is doing? Being regional country, Iran is our friend but India voted against her and working in partnership with Washington and Tel Aviv to weaken her. India was never like this. You were champions of NAM.. Rabindranath Tagore, Abul Kalam Azad, Ghandhi Jee were all Indians. One must ask our own selves; where are Indian or Pakistani values???
    Thank you for making me wise. The bottom line is... lets work together to develop our indigenous capabilities and capacities so that we can defend ourselves from foreign interference.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
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  13. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Not really. Jinnah was pro USA and pro Britian. The entire Muslim League supported the British war effort while the INC refused.

    Here is an interview with Jinnah.


    IREF


    An opportunist right from the start
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Mrs Aziz these uninvited guests have been in the subcontinent for 300+ years. These
    guests help to form the divisions and hatred that exists two countries that at one time
    were one people ;and is arming both sides to continue the cycle of war and division and
    working feverishly on the diplomatic front with the same intentions. My question to you is
    what would make them leave?? They seem to have given a greater priority to the subcontinent
    now and making inroads into Afghanistan and Central Asia.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  15. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    Give me your sources if you expect me to believe something as wild as that statement.

    Karachi's Orangi Town, a slum which is even bigger than Mumbai's Dharavi, is testament to Pakistan's own inequality, not some Indian migration. That is just another wild conspiracy theory in a line of others. Give me your sources for such wild theories.

    There is no misunderstanding. I have countless Pakistani friends who are not blind to their country's rulers and their nefarious designs. Ego only comes into play if you let it. The truth is that you guys have one of the poorest leadership in the world and your leaders try to deflect that blame away from themselves by making it an issue of "Pakistani pride". You are being fooled by your own leaders and if speaking the truth hurts your "ego" than only god can save Pakistan. And before you start off with comparisons with India, we already know our leadership too is extremely bad, but there is no doubt at all that it is much better than Pakistan. India's surviving 65 years without breaking up, and with most of those years as an adversary of the US, is testament to that fact.


    I quoted the World Bank, an organization which both India and Pakistan are a part of, and an organization which Pakistan has made full use of to fund its development projects, so let us not be that hypocritical. You're also wrong about CIA factbook; they only reference the Indian census department, they don't update their own figures.

    Your response only shows the level of denial existent in Pakistan. Reject all international sources as "twisted" and lay your full belief in wild conspiracy theories.

    Firstly, I have never denied that there is no corruption in India. I am well aware of middlemen eating up public tax money but that is an Indian problem which has to be solved internally, not a Western imposed problem. India's fate will be same as Pakistan the day Indians stop realizing that India's problems are due to internal rot and corruption and start to believe in wild conspiracy theories of "Western intruders". Foreign lobbies and all that do exist, but than, that is why so much importance is given to developing an indigenous Indian industry.


    Jinnah was always pro-US and pro-Britain, even before independence! Infact, when India and Pakistan gained independence and India kicked out the British, Pakistan under Jinnah chose to retain them! When India rejected King George as "Emperor of India", Pakistan under Jinnah granted him the title "King of Pakistan" until his death in 1952. Queen Elizabeth was made the "Queen of Pakistan" and stayed so until 1956! So with those facts, how on earth can you still say that Jinnah was "against" Western interference? Facts show a different reality.

    In all that, I hope you also figure in the fact that American aid had already started funding your country by 1951. Infact, the only time US didn't fund Pakistan was in the 1990s, a time which is known to be most economically stagnant in Pakistan.

    Here's an illustration to the extent of American aid to Pakistan:
    [​IMG]

    As I said earlier, Jinnah had already proclaimed King George as "King of Pakistan" before he died.


    I'm a product of an Indian private school myself, so please tell me, what has happened? Indian privatized schools are way better than Indian government run schools! Anyone who can afford private schools will never send their child to a governmental public school. That's the reality.

    Being short of "requirement" does not mean that Indian Navy is smaller than before, it is actually much larger than it has ever been in history. Being short of "requirement" just means that they are looking to get a lot bigger over time. For last 60 years, India only had 1 aircraft carrier, now, even 2 carriers are seen as "short of requirement", and 2 more are currently under construction.

    No one can tell anyone to pack up in international waters.

    Again, please provide your sources. It's hard to dissect conspiracy theories.

    You tell me, and with sources please. :rolleyes:

    Are you Pakistani or Indian? And India voted against Iran because that was needed for the Indo-US nuclear deal to go through, but it is complete bullocks that India is working to weaken Iran. We have been one of the last countries which continued to import Iranian oil and stand by Iran, despite opposition from the US. Even now, our PM just visited Iran to discuss the oil trade and Syria, again, in opposition to the US. India has voted in favour of Syrian government, again, in opposition to US. You are far from reality.


    We still follow an independent foreign policy. If we are becoming friends with US, it is only because we share common interests regarding Afghanistan and China. In respect to Afghanistan, we share those interests with Iran, CARs, and Russia too.

    Elaborate. What values?

    India has defended itself from foreign interference quite well. Unlike Pakistan, we have never allowed a foreign country to build bases inside our country, not even the Soviet Union, who were our good friends. Ofcourse, we do allow smaller countries, like Singapore, to have joint bases inside India, but than, we also get Singapore to keep an eye on the Malacca strait! It's a good trade off.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
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  16. Bushra Aziz

    Bushra Aziz Regular Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    We are diverting from the original topic i.e. Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean but since questions have been addressed to me so I would not like to miss the opportunity. Firstly I appreciate the manner in which each of my point has been contested. This is the first time I had ever been to any forum. I have realized that one needs a full day to answer these questions coming from all directions, for which I am afraid I don’t have sufficient time. Before I start off, I must confess I believe telling cent percent truth but sometimes the propaganda is so powerful that you cannot reach the truth. Since we are all students here in this world and learn from each other so I would request all of you not to dub my genuine efforts as “Conspiracy Theories.”

    Now coming straight to some of the points (I would answer them generally). First of all Quaid-e-Azam death occurred in September 1948 and not in 1952 as given by you. There is popular view that “Jinnah was pro USA and pro Britain. The entire Muslim League supported the British war effort while the INC (Indian National Congress) refused.” This is totally misleading. We Indians and Pakistanis have a disease that we love to quote western sources and don’t bother to rely on our own people. For an incident taking place in Indian city of Kanpur or Pakistani city of Lahore, how many of us would go and bother to find the truth themsewlves or rely on local sources. Some one has quoted Life Magazine but I would not grade it reliable because when I have original documents relating to Quaid-e-Azam in my library, why I should rely on Life Magazine. It is on record that Quaid-e-Azam reversed the British policy in the North-West Frontier (now Khyber PK). We have also the address of Quaid-e-Azam to the Tribal Jirga at Government House, Peshawar on 17th April, 1948 when he said, “Keeping in view your loyalty, help, assurances and declarations we ordered, as you know, the withdrawal of troops from Waziristan as a concrete and definite gesture on our part,” It is also on record that Quaid-e-Azam was persuaded by The American and British not to reverse British Frontier policy as Russians have eye on Gilgit and Northern Areas but Quaid-e-Azam did not listen to them. What life Magazine has reported cannot be true. We have also the cable sent by US Ambassador at New Delhi after his meeting with Quaid-e-Azam, in which he criticized Quaid-e-Azam and passed sarcastic remarks that Pakistan cannot survive for more than few months. We have also Quaid-e-Azam refusal to take over Pakistan unless only Muslim units of Indian Army are allocated.

    Your observation is partially correct but since we no access to the original documents so we are taking the help of western propaganda, which is not fair. However, we can safely say that as per the Partition Plan, both India and Pakistan were to remain under the British Commonwealth. Pakistan declined to accept Governor Generalship of Lord Mountbatten and Quaid-e-Azam become the country’s first Governorship whereas India accepted Mountbatten as Governor General who remained on the position till June 1948, when he was succeeded by C. Rajagopalachari.


    Regarding the migration of Indian population in a number of major cities in Pakistan, I have already mentioned the exact location of at least two localities. Same could be checked on ground.



    Pakistan was established in August 1947 not in 1951. You have rightly accepted that in the initial years Pakistan did not receive any foreign aid. More so, data provided on this forum is not correct. US did not start their aid from US $ 700 million.


    This is what I am telling you. In the initial years of Independence the Public schools run by the British government were one of the best the best but as a pre-planned plot private schools have been encouraged in India and Pakistan. Today Indian public schools have been taken over by foreign sponsored private schools in the name of private-public partnership. Syllabus and test books are designed suit manpower requirement in the western countries. Why cannot we have our own market? We are a sea of human resources but unable to utilize them in our own country. Sorry I am running short of time so would not be able to furnish details at this stage.


    Where I live now was part of India subcontinent some 65 years back but now I am Pakistani. So innocent of India that in the hour on need your sacrificed Iran but now for economic and political benefit you are claiming to be having cordial relations. You have sacrificed your sovereignty by inking 123 Treaty (Indo-US nuclear deal) and also lost your friend. US will one day play dirty and leak you deal to create hatred between Indians and Iranians. We need to be cautious of every step we take in this contemporary world.



    In fact, India’s geo-strategic location is such that no country would be interested to have bases there. However, Indian Navy has totally become a mercenary Navy.I don’t know whether you are a civilian or an armed forces officer but it seems there is a communication gap. You have quoted the scenario that existed some eight years back. Today, India has inked Memorandums of Understandings and agreements with several countries. Indian Intelligence agencies including RAW, DIA and MI are working on assignments given by US, UK, Israel, Italy and Russian Federation. What do you think RICs are doing in remote locations of India as well as Afghanistan and Indian base in Tajikistan? Why Afghan Armed Forces and Police are being trained in at least 36 schools in India. What do you think; Afghanistan is not a foreign country which is sharing Indian bases as well as infrastructure, camps etc in India. Washington claims that New Delhi is not doing this due to their love for Afghans but they are paid for it. Can you deny that India has sub-let bases in foreign countries to western forces? What do you think for whom Lieutenant Colonel Shrikant Prasad Purohit along with other Indian senior Army and Intelligence officers were working. Can India deny visit of American and Israeli teams in Glacier area. It is no more a secret that there is Indo-US-Israeli cooperation in Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Maldives. It would be misleading to link these developments with Chinese threats in Arunachal Pradesh and Pakistani threat to Indian held Jammu and Kashmir state. After all these facts, if you still say that “India has defended itself from foreign interference quite well,” I would not stress on the point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
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  17. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    I'm merely trying to address your assertions. :)

    Don't worry, there are only few folks here who'd take the time to address you point for point. Many others would be more than happy to indulge in pointless mudslinging.

    Bushra, anyone who holds certain beliefs holds them because they deem them to be the "truth". I can very easily tell you that Jinnah and Nehru were freemasons, tools of the Illuminati, and India-Pakistan partition was some ulterior twisted social experiment! Than let me also tell you to believe me at face value and do not call my views as "conspiracies". Would you believe me?

    You have to back up your points with proper sources if you want to convince others towards your views. Otherwise, you are erasing the line between facts and opinions.


    I never said Jinnah died in 1952. It was King George who died in 1952, not Jinnah. Maybe I did not articulate my sentence properly.

    You have to address the person who said that statement. It was not me. I merely stated that Jinnah was the one who kept the British in the subcontinent even after partition.

    Because our people have blood of millions of people on their hands on either side of the border during partition. There is no way that you can tell me with a straight face that "our people" are not biased.

    I cannot comment on that since I do not know that part of history. I will dig into it and have a look.

    All this is besides the point I have raised.

    This is the biased history I am talking about.

    Mountbatten remained in India as governor general for only 10 months after independence. The English monarchy were accorded the rulers of Pakistan for 9 years after independence! Stark difference there, no?

    Moreover, the Dominion of Pakistan existed for 9 years, till 1956. The Dominion of India lasted only 3 years, until 1950!


    No you have not. You have thrown a wild accusation without providing a single credible proof or evidence! I can also very easily say, come to Delhi, we have a locality where millions of Pakistani refugees live, and don't call it a wild assertion!



    I was contesting your fallacious assertion that Pakistan was on the economic upswing during Jinnah's time. He ruled for barely a year, a time when Pakistan had no economic set up and no economic figures! The economic plans of Pakistan were established only in 1950. And by 1951, Pakistan had already started to import American aid!

    You're right, they started with $2.89 million in 1951, which went upto $700 million by 1953, in less than 2 years!

    You can get full data here: Sixty years of US aid to Pakistan: Get the data | Global development | guardian.co.uk

    Ofcourse, it's Western and "twisted"! :rolleyes:


    You have no idea what you are talking about. British Indian schools were simply privately run Convent schools, not run by the British government! Indian syllabus and text books are decided by subsequent school boards, i.e. Central Board of Secondary Education, Punjab Board of Secondary Education, Haryana Board of Secondary Education, etc, etc. Syllabus is decided by the education ministry, not by private institutions!


    US cannot "leak" the deal, since whatever India did, it did so openly, not secretly behind curtains! As for Iran's "hour of need", even Iran knows that there is no way India could've swung that vote in favour of Iran, as India is not a veto power. India has stood by Iran, with money as well as goods trade, and they continue to build a corridor to Afghanistan through Iran's Chah Bahar port! So Indian-Iranian relations are just fine.


    Nevermind the small fact that the busiest maritime trade route in the world, which feeds not only China but the whole of East Asia runs right beneath India. :rolleyes:


    Bushra, it is your country which is getting paid to fight wars, not India!

    MoUs are mutual agreements, not one way. Indian Navy jointly trains with navies from all over the world. India pays its due for these exercises, it does not get paid by others for this. So, who is mercenary?


    You mean NIA, not DIA.

    And RAW, NIA and MI are looking after India's national interests by helping Afghanistan, not America's. I think you forgot the Flight 814 hijacking and the role Taliban played in helping the terrorists get away. India is making sure that never happens again. Cheers!

    Evidence? Links? Sources?


    Makes no sense. How can India "sublet" bases in foreign countries? It is up to that "foreign country" to allow US in. And in all this, I hope you don't miss the fact that forget India, Pakistan had been lending its own bases, uptill recently, inside Pakistan to the US to launch drones!

    What "other Indian senior Army and Intelligence officers"?? Again, elaborate with links and sources, not baseless accusations again!

    Purohit was either rogue, or an undercover agent for Military intelligence. Let the courts decide the truth. He's an internal Indian issue.

    If you mean Siachen, than yes, I can! You have come here with nothing but baseless allegations with nothing to back up your words.

    Sri Lanka, Nepal and Maldives are India's backyard. Mayanmar is both China and India's turf. Don't know where and how Americans and Israelis come in here. Come up with some substance rather than baseless accusations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
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  18. Bushra Aziz

    Bushra Aziz Regular Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    I am sorry if some of my points hurt anyone that these are being dubbed as pointless mudslinging. I am no one to guide New Delhi what to do and what not to do. As I have already highlighted that we are diverting from the original topic i.e. Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean so we should stick to the topic. Please don't consider my views as attempt to letdown others. We must come up with solid recommendations to save Indian Ocean from foreign invasion. One wonders what if any one of us may strike deal with foreign intruders that may compromise the security of whole region. As already pointed out in this forum that India, in order to strike nuclear fuel deal with western nations, sacrificed regional friends like Iran; we need to be careful not to provide opportunity to enemies and adversaries to buildup up permanent presence in Indian Ocean. Today, India in order to bag permanent seat in United Nations Security Council (UNSC) is ready to sacrifice anything. Let’s lean from our past mistakes that led the cunning traders to rule one third part of our countries. Indeed, the future wars would be fought from seas so we must watch our steps.
     
  19. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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  20. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    Every thing is fine; however, one our new esteemed member from Pakistan said - 'thousands of Indians are migrating to pakistan'? The they most cloddish and obtuse statement I have heard in recent times - when pakistanis themselves don't want to live in pakistan and introduce themselves as Indians while staying abroad. I think, the brainwashing our friends from across the border get makes them believe in all the mumbo-jumbo, when they utter the hocus-pocus, then they realize what faux-pas they have committed.
     
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  21. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Indo-US Navy buildup in Indian Ocean

    The only way of that security of whole region can be archieved is Pakistan completely accept india's dominance in this region. Is Pakistan willing to do that?

    Well, India is not ready to sacrifice anything to get the permanent seat. That is why the big 5 is only supporting india with lip works.

    There is a lots of possibility of future except one thing for sure: we always repeat our past mistake.
     

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