First export of the LCH to Sri Lanka?

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Daredevil

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[hl]Guys, what is happening?. It seems people cannot discipline themselves on sticking to the thread topic and on almost all topics are veering in a tangential direction from the thread topic. Enough of Tami-SL dispute. Stick to the topic or else I'm afraid, thread will face the closure[/hl]
 

KS

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Smuggling is rampant in the whole country. Proof is available in plenty, but nobody will come forward with it. Witnesses have short life spans. Smuggling happens between Sri Lanka and India constantly. It is a big business especially in Srilanka where the laws are lax.

Smugglers prey on Sri Lankan refugees in India | ReliefWeb

Liquor smuggling racket from Sri Lanka to India busted - News From Police & Court - Tops Sri Lanka - Tops.lk

Sri Lanka News-Adaderana-Truth First - Lanka-India gold smuggling racket flushed

Marine wealth plundered by Indian smugglers

4 caught smuggling goods to Lanka - Times Of India
Where does it say all the fishermen killed by SL Navy were smugglers ?

Secondly tons f links were given by previous posters about SL Navy atocities on Indian Tamils. But you started going into nuances like who was the reporter ? How credible was it ? etc. The same can be said about the links you have given.

Moreover LTTE has been gone for 3 years now, still why the shooting ?



The only superpower in the world fears Cuba.
Fears ? Thats a wrong word Mr. It is actually 'indifference'. They feel its not worth their time.Do you have an inkling of what will happen if the Cuban Navy keeps firing on US fishermen every one week and kills them ? Definitely not the reaction of the 'Emerging Super Power'.

Nope. Law states maritime patrols and border patrols can handle the situation by themselves. There are numerous reports of American patrols shooting Mexican civilians on sight while attempting to cross borders.

Mexican president confronts Clinton over border shooting - CNN

Mexican Teen Killed by U.S. Border Patrol Agent - FoxNews.com


An Indian citizen commits a crime in India, then he is liable to be punished in India. An Indian citizen commits a crime in Sri Lanka then he will be punished according to their laws. Kasab is an example of that. He is a Pakistani citizen but will be given the death sentence in India. There is a reason why we want to try Headley and Quattrochi in India as well.
Maritime Laws can go to hell. You are the undisputed power in South Asia. Cant you make a puny country listen to you, if you want to, and ensure the safety of the lives of your own citizens ? Is New Delhi too impotent to do that ?
 
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KS

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There is really no difference between the way the Tamilians are being treated in Sri Lanka as compared to the way Indian Army treats civilians in the North East.
Two wrongs dont make a right.

Even if I was a Tamilian, it was never an Indian Tamil decision to interfere in the life of a Sri Lankan Tamil. It is exactly how the Pakistani Muslims like to comment about the life of Indian Muslims. The Indian muslim openly tells the Pakistani muslim to not interfere. Similarly there will come a time when the SL Tamil will say the same to the Indian Tamil. There is literally no difference between the two.
Except that in this case there are lakhs of refugees who are staying in Tamil Nadu and so we have a genuine case in pleading for them. You gotto be a Tamil to understand that.

Had the SL Tamils been left alone nothing of this sort would have happened. It was our support of the LTTE and other militant groups that led to the downfall of the SL Tamils. Now the SL Tamils are worse off than the way they were before. The Sinhalese reacted to terrorism and it was that which started the killings initially. The subsequent war did the rest. It is no different from what the IA did in Kashmir where entire villages were massacred. It is no different than what the Israelis are doing in Palestine or Lebanon.
As Phenom said you dont have an iota of the Sri-Lankan civil war and its genesis. It was not the Tigers who worsened the condition of the Tamils. It was 30 years of systematic cultural,ethnic,religious ad linguistic discrimination the Sinhalas perpetrated on the Tamils that did that. And do you know why LTTE was supported by RAW ? Because the SL were cosying upto the Americans and Pakistanis and were in the process of building a Naval base overlooking India. Things, as reported in Aaj Tak and Star News, are not always true.

You say we should not have given weapons, that is right. We shouldn't have supported the separatists in the first place. Now healing the war wounds will take decades and the SL Tamil lives will be no better for it.
We supported the separatists because they were friendly to India and the Sri Lankans were cosying upto US and Pakistan. Do you know that ? It was a necessity at that time. Now we could have just played neutral. Instead New Delhi armed and supported (still supports) a genocidal regime that does not believe in equal treatment of its own citizens. Why should I be apologetic about it ?

The reason why we supported the SL govt in the human rights abuse is because the only way to get the Tamil population back on track is by using diplomacy.
To get the Tamils their rights you support a genocide on them. Whoa , what logic ?

There is no choice but for the Tamils and Sinhalese to co-exist. There is no scope for creating a new state. The SL Army is too powerful for a new LTTE to be born and India will obviously not interfere no matter what. So expect a Naxal type situation hitting the nation in the future unless India interferes with economic gifts of trade and goodwill. Do you think if TN continues to be hostile to the Sinhalese then the situation will be resolved?
We will not forget, we will not forgive. Simple as that. Unless the war criminals are brought to justice in the International Court of Justice just like they are doing with the Serbian war criminals.

The struggle for a separate nation is what led to all the problems in the first place.
The 30 years of rampant discrimination was what led to the struggle for an independent homeland. You 've got your timeline wrong mate.

As for killing of fishermen. This is happening in the Pakistani areas and Bangladeshi border too. The TN people made an enemy of SL and they are doing what a lot of countries practice at times of war. The Indian govt can only handle this issue diplomatically and not by using force. Like I already said, the Tamils in SL could have taken care of themselves. The interference of Indian Tamils has only been counter-productive and is affecting the lives of fishermen. We have ourselves to blame for all the killings that's happening.
Frankly aren't you ashamed of saying like this ? You made them enemy so we wont help you ? Aren't we (people of TN) part of this same nation ? Or are we from a different country ? Isn't the nation supposed to stand with us irrespective of us being right or wrong when confronted with a foreigner who indiscriminatly kills our own citizens ?

Look first of all Indian Tamil fishermen are Legally permitted according to the Indo-SL accord of 1974 to fish in the waters of Katchatheevu where most of the shootings take place. First make the Sri Lankans honor their international obligation, then we can speak about who is responsible for what.
 
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KS

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[hl]Guys, what is happening?. It seems people cannot discipline themselves on sticking to the thread topic and on almost all topics are veering in a tangential direction from the thread topic. Enough of Tami-SL dispute. Stick to the topic or else I'm afraid, thread will face the closure[/hl]

Sorry sir. This is not a Sinhala - Tamil dispute.

This is about the attitude of some people -Indians themselves- who exhibit a condescending attitude towards our own fishermen killed in cold blood in waters where they are legally permitted to fish by a foreign Navy and being apologetic about it and worse still, defending it.

Things are written as 'TN fishermen deserved that' forgetting the fact the killed fishermen were 'Indians' too.

Did not a West Bengali share the pains of the East Bengalis when they underwent a genocide in 1971 ?
 
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p2prada

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Where does it say all the fishermen killed by SL Navy were smugglers ?
You disputed smuggling was happening in the first place. Once that was disproved you picked the most silly question anybody could ask.

Secondly tons f links were given by previous posters about SL Navy atocities on Indian Tamils. But you started going into nuances like who was the reporter ? How credible was it ? etc. The same can be said about the links you have given.

Moreover LTTE has been gone for 3 years now, still why the shooting ?
3 of the links came directly from the police. So, that's your source.

Fears ? Thats a wrong word Mr. It is actually 'indifference'. They feel its not worth their time.Do you have an inkling of what will happen if the Cuban Navy keeps firing on US fishermen every one week and kills them ? Definitely not the reaction of the 'Emerging Super Power'.
They tried ousting the regime by force and failed. It is hardly indifference. Fidel Castro is still feared. Fact is Cuba was threatened militarily by the US, but nothing happened.

So, they did the next best thing. They started trading with Cuba, big time. The trade was so big that Cuba slowly became very dependent on the US. This is what ace and I have been saying. You cannot threaten small but powerful nations to do your bidding. Increase in economic and diplomatic dependency will decrease the small nations capacity to disagree with a bigger power.

Once that happens the Sinhala-Tamil dispute will automatically decrease. The only way to end the dispute is not by taking up arms but by making the SL tamils rich. This can happen only with economic activity and not by asking for a separate state.

Maritime Laws can go to hell. You are the undisputed power in South Asia. Cant you make a puny country listen to you, if you want to, and ensure the safety of the lives of your own citizens ? Is New Delhi too impotent to do that ?
Even the US in a similar position like India will be impotent to do it. The Sri Lankans actually have the upper hand in international diplomacy. There is widespread acknowledgement that it was India which nurtured the separatist movement and hence we have little say in the matter. The US were completely impotent in diplomacy with Cuba after the bay of Pigs incident. The LTTE was India's bay of pigs and Vietnam combined. There is nothing we can do about it.

All SL will do is say they are killing smugglers and that will be the end. In case we resort to military posturing, then we will receive widespread condemnation from Europe, especially Norway and the US.

Once the SL Tamils are rich, law of land will take over and that will reduce smuggling. They will better integrate with the Sinhalese. That will bring your peace.
 

p2prada

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Two wrongs dont make a right.
The situation is the same. It was never a question of whose wrong or whose right. The question is of what happens next.

Except that in this case there are lakhs of refugees who are staying in Tamil Nadu and so we have a genuine case in pleading for them. You gotto be a Tamil to understand that.
I don't need to be a Tamil to understand a problem that exists all over the world. Sam Manekshaw and Indira Gandhi were not Bengalis to understand the Bangladesh problem.

The Sri Lankan problem started only after LTTE took up arms, not before. The Israelis would have done nothing had they not been invaded by multiple countries many times.

As Phenom said you dont have an iota of the Sri-Lankan civil war and its genesis. It was not the Tigers who worsened the condition of the Tamils. It was 30 years of systematic cultural,ethnic,religious ad linguistic discrimination the Sinhalas perpetrated on the Tamils that did that. And do you know why LTTE was supported by RAW ? Because the SL were cosying upto the Americans and Pakistanis and were in the process of building a Naval base overlooking India. Things, as reported in Aaj Tak and Star News, are not always true.
Cultural, ethnic, religious and linguistic discrimination is more rampant in India than in Sri Lanka. The Marathis kicking out Hindi people. Upper caste against Dalits and tribals. The Naxal issue. The reservation in jobs and education. They all exist in India. The Sinhalese discrimination was actually nothing if you compare the Godhra riots or the Bombay riots. If you were a UP worker and moved to Maharashtra, you will face more discrimination than if you were a Tamil in Colombo. The Blacks were worse off than the whites in the South Africa during the same time period. Ever heard of apartheid. The Tamil Sri Lankan issue was a tiny little thing compared to apartheid.

The Tamils could have handled it by their own, they never needed your help. Your help, or the right word should be "our" help made it worse for them.

We supported the separatists because they were friendly to India and the Sri Lankans were cosying upto US and Pakistan. Do you know that ? It was a necessity at that time. Now we could have just played neutral. Instead New Delhi armed and supported (still supports) a genocidal regime that does not believe in equal treatment of its own citizens. Why should I be apologetic about it ?
National interests change with time. Now the US is cozying with us and distancing themselves from Pak. US has the best base in the region, the Lankas wouldn't have accepted foreign presence anyway. You are painting the Sinhalese as an enemy when they aren't. Like I said they were never the enemies.

The disenfranchisement of Tamils could have been handled diplomatically.

To get the Tamils their rights you support a genocide on them. Whoa , what logic ?
You got it wrong. Killings happened after LTTE took up arms, not before. Before that it was a major social problem with a non violent cure similar to apartheid.

We will not forget, we will not forgive. Simple as that. Unless the war criminals are brought to justice in the International Court of Justice just like they are doing with the Serbian war criminals.
Then you, sitting safe in India, will keep saying the same thing while the SL Tamils will continue to be marginalized. If you know what is good for them and not good for your own ego, it would be to make peace with the Sinhalese.

As long as YOU will not forgive and forget, then it is not YOU who suffers. The fishermen will continue suffering and the SL Tamils will be worse off.

The war criminals will not be brought to justice simply because the LTTE was a terrorist organization which was dismantled by force and not negotiation. No court will support a recognized terrorist organization. The victors make the rules. Make peace with the victors and the SL Tamils will finally have peace. Like I said the Sinhalese have the upperhand.

The 30 years of rampant discrimination was what led to the struggle for an independent homeland. You 've got your timeline wrong mate.
South Africa is one of the richest countries in the world even after more than half the population went through worse discrimination than the Tamils ever have.

Frankly aren't you ashamed of saying like this ? You made them enemy so we wont help you ? Aren't we (people of TN) part of this same nation ? Or are we from a different country ? Isn't the nation supposed to stand with us irrespective of us being right or wrong when confronted with a foreigner who indiscriminatly kills our own citizens ?
The Rajasthanis and Gujaratis are fine being part of India. The Punjabis have given up on Khalistan. The Kashmiris want peace and they are getting it. The North East terrorists have already sued for peace. The Naxals will follow suit someday once development reaches their lands.

If the Tamils cannot forgive and forget then there is little other parts can do about it, especially considering the Indian Tamils are not discriminated in anyway. Don't forget that as long as you hate the Sinhalese, it will be your brothers across the sea who will suffer.
 
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