Finmeccanica Ban May Prove Costly For India: UK Minister

[prateikf]

Hope the iceberg does not sink our Navy.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Guess the orders will now go to American, Israeli, French or Russian companies.
Biggest losers UK and Italy

Last I checked Gripen NG was featuring a Selex AESA radar too ...
http://saab.com/region/india/about-.../2015/selex-es-raven-aesa-radar-on-gripen-ng/

I think banning such a defence giant as Finmeccanica is reducing India' s options in many fields. Fining them would be more astute !

The Americans are very good at this ! They milked MY bank with a giant 8.9 bn $ fine .
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bnp-paribas-settlement-sentencing-idUSKBN0NM41K20150501

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This was done imo for Italy blocking India in MCTR. Italy is an Insignificant arms supplier to India and can be easily replaced this article is hot air from uk who have been upset since the mrca and eurofighter being tossed out of the selection


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[Kunal Biswas]

Expecting Navalised version ..

AESA for IAC surveillance, @Archer

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Last I checked Gripen NG was featuring a Selex AESA radar too ...
http://saab.com/region/india/about-.../2015/selex-es-raven-aesa-radar-on-gripen-ng/

I think banning such a defence giant as Finmeccanica is reducing India' s options in many fields. Fining them would be more astute !

The Americans are very good at this ! They milked MY bank with a giant 8.9 bn $ fine .
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bnp-paribas-settlement-sentencing-idUSKBN0NM41K20150501

Israelis ,Russians and USA have all offered aesa radar to India and indigenous versions should be arriving soon?


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[harsh]

Last time in mmrca gripen was having an understanding with Israel and they are proposing to have some common sub system made be Israel and which are in use in IAF.

and in my view gripen is nowhere near to be in IAF. Tejus production is going to in full swing and with 120 mk1 a and 120 mk2 we are very much satisfied with this category.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I am more worried about the navy with the ban than the air force. This ban has little to no impact to the air force


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[LETHALFORCE]

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...eccanica-india-blacklist-helicopter/85185124/


Leonardo-Finmeccanica Shrugs Off India Blacklisting


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[Neelkanth]

What you say is true, that its individuals who are involved, but it is the individuals who make the company dont they? The performance of the individuals bring in profit or loss or delays.

Further, look who was involved, It was the CEO and the top leadership who provide the vision and direction.which then reflects on profit or loss and that reflects on stock price, so, how come they are not involved?

Let the individual companies just seperate themselves from Finnmecanica totally would they be strong for that?

Just a vague example, if you are shot through the leg and though your other parts are fine, try running at full speed for say 30 minutes and see what happens.

As I said if the top leadership was involved because they saw the profits were worth the risk and the risk was theirs, its not that they did not know of Indian laws before, we have black listed many companies in past also.

So, then maybe one solution is that Finnmecanica then sells Selex to some other international company and then selex still manages to fulfill its business. Would they do that??

Going by this logic even Satyam should have been banned to do business? isn't it ? A company is an entity in itself and its employees are distinct. Yes and it works booth ways, has Finnmecanicia any obligation to work for India ? it it a PSU or Some thing ? What if Finnmecanica responds by shutting up all on going business with India and screws our Ships an other equipment for good?

Its simply the lack of understanding how the real world works. NO is obligated to work to work for India, neither is India Obligated to work for any one. so if We say Go F yourself to Finnmecanica they are also free to respond by "go F yourself too" and where are those equipment in our forces coming from. are you gonna build those state of art Radars and Equipment that is already integrated into our systems ? and which most other suppliers don't supply and DRDO (and hundred other labs ) don't build.

Pride, Ego, etc are fine, but please spare me the self righteous crap. the real world Doesn't work that way.

 

[Neelkanth]

Finmeccanica has to go, It gained lot of power during former government reign, so does Russians ..

I agree we should also dump all their equipment supplied in the sea, without any delay, then we shall kill our enemies with our self Righteousness.

 

[sob]

St.Anthony banned many companies in the past and they all came back. At the end of the day today it is a buyers market and India is the big players with money in hand and an appetite for orders.

No doubt Finmeccanica is a big guy but remember at the end of the day they have to report back to the share holders and any drop in profit as a direct result of illegal activity is not looked upon well by the big share holders.

You cannot separate the employees from the Organisation. If the Organisation or the Company had laid down very strict guidelines on corruption and bribes and enforced it, the employee will never cross the line. If the Company actively supports these activities, and it seems the Italian company, falls in this category, then the people will offer bribes to their customers. It is all about ethics in the organisation.

 

[Neelkanth]

St.Anthony banned many companies in the past and they all came back. At the end of the day today it is a buyers market and India is the big players with money in hand and an appetite for orders.

No doubt Finmeccanica is a big guy but remember at the end of the day they have to report back to the share holders and any drop in profit as a direct result of illegal activity is not looked upon well by the big share holders.

You cannot separate the employees from the Organisation. If the Organisation or the Company had laid down very strict guidelines on corruption and bribes and enforced it, the employee will never cross the line. If the Company actively supports these activities, and it seems the Italian company, falls in this category, then the people will offer bribes to their customers. It is all about ethics in the organisation.

ROME — Italian defense group Leonardo-Finmeccanica has put a brave face on news that it will be blacklisted in India, calling its business in the country “very marginal” and claiming it has no Indian orders included in its budget forecast.

Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar announced that the group will be blacklisted in India in the wake of allegations it offered bribes to win a €560 million Indian Air Force helicopter contract in 2010.

Former Finmeccanica CEO Giuseppe Orsi was given a four-and-a-half year sentence last month by an Italian appeal court for his role in the alleged corruption.

Orsi was previously cleared of corruption in a first trial, only to see that verdict reversed on appeal. Under Italy’s lengthy legal system, he will have a chance to challenge the appeal conviction at the country’s supreme court and will not enter a jail before then.

In India, news of the conviction has galvanized a probe into the alleged corruption as well as Parrikar’s announcement of Finmeccanica’s blacklisting.

When Orsi was first arrested in 2013, before his first trial, India announced it would stop Finmeccanica from pitching for new programs.

In a statement released Monday, Finmeccanica said it had not received any notice it was being blacklisted in India.

The firm has been in talks to sell heavy torpedoes to India, but said in the statement a contract was “never formally signed and therefore never included in Leonardo-Finmeccanica's backlog.”

“Despite the context of uncertainty, Leonardo-Finmeccanica, in the spirit of cooperation, has over the past few years continued to supply India with the components and services essential to ensuring the operation of platforms and equipment for the country’s armed forces,” the firm said.

The statement added that new management appointed in 2014 had introduced a new corporate governance setup including “anti-corruption code and whistleblowing measures.”

 

[Indx TechStyle]

ROME — Italian defense group Leonardo-Finmeccanica has put a brave face on news that it will be blacklisted in India, calling its business in the country “very marginal” and claiming it has no Indian orders included in its budget forecast.

Tevar dekhe inkey?
Rassi JAL gayi, lekin bal nahin gaya.

 

[Neelkanth]

Tevar dekhe inkey?
Rassi JAL gayi, lekin bal nahin gaya.

Bhai. That also gives them the capacity to pull out of existing service and spares supply contract. Our equipment will face operationability issues as certain services and spares are protected by IP laws (so no reverse engineering is possible) etc. And we might have to say good bye the radar of IAC 1. and few more critical equipment.
.
You can impose fine on companies in MIC but banning them outright has practical consequences and impacts security preparedness. If India had 100% domestic MIC capability no one would give a damn but...

 

[prateikf]

Bhai. That also gives them the capacity to pull out of existing service and spares supply contract. Our equipment will face operationability issues as certain services and spares are protected by IP laws (so no reverse engineering is possible) etc. And we might have to say good bye the radar of IAC 1. and few more critical equipment.
.
You can impose fine on companies in MIC but banning them outright has practical consequences and impacts security preparedness. If India had 100% domestic MIC capability no one would give a damn but...

True. The Italian defence major might refuse to supply the spare parts and cripple our naval ships. Our scorpene subs have been rendered useless at present despite what Parikar says. They have also signed agreements with Pakistan for supplying helicopters. Paki navy will have helicopters while ours won't. We have once again shot ourselves in the foot with this ban.

 

[manutdfan]

This was done imo for Italy blocking India in MCTR. Italy is an Insignificant arms supplier to India and can be easily replaced this article is hot air from uk who have been upset since the mrca and eurofighter being tossed out of the selection


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and Italy blocked India from MTCR due to the Italian Marines controversy. serves these Italians right. i feel that these tit-for-tat incidents have racist undertones. they are among the most racist of all Europeans that I have come across. they look down upon other folks and think that it's their right to tell others what to do. had Sonia Gandhi become PM she would have definitely emptied house as if she has not done that already. that was a really close shave for us.

@Neelkanth don't take it the wrong way but what critical equipment are you referring to exactly? is it something related to our nuclear weapons or nuclear submarine program? if not then those Italian thieves don't matter at all. everything can be replaced by off-the-shelf tech today. which i'm not a fan of btw. i would still prefer domestic private companies supplying our armed forces regardless of whom they rip it off from.

A member quoted the Denel incident. I don't think it adversely affected us at all. if anything it's the South African economy that is in the dumps today. they need us more than ever. i totally agree that it has severely delayed the up-gradation of our artillery but at least it moved us in the right direction. look we have the Dhanush 155mm howitzer now even though it's gonna take another 5 yrs to become fully functional. of course it's been reverse engineered from the Bofors but i don't see the Swedes suing us for IPR violation. even if they do we don't give balls about it. we've got the most shrewd lawyers in the world. look at our judicial system

so fret not boys coz we're the masters of जुगाड़
also the Italians are a failed economy. the are living on IMF & World Bank handouts. last i checked it was the Americans dictating their domestic politics. hey even their PM was appointed only after meeting the Americans' & Germans' terms and conditions.
so when a beggar non-sovereign country threatens my nation with an imaginary technology denial clause just because they are white do I really need to spend sleepless nights over it? Nah not at all. Food for thought guys.

 

[syncro]

My little non-white friend, lo sai che si allunga il naso e si va all'inferno quando si dicono le bugie, vero?

 

[manutdfan]

@LETHALFORCE @Indx TechStyle didn't i say they were racist. typical chutiya Italian bhagora mentality.
@LETHALFORCE sir what do you plan to do? you are the mod. waiting for your instructions.
@Neelkanth bhai dekh liyo. jinki tum itni tareef kar rahe ho kya sochte hai wo tumhare baare me.
my job's done. iss Italain chutiye ki gaand maarni hai toh meko tag kar diyo.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

My little non-white friend, lo sai che si allunga il naso e si va all'inferno quando si dicono le bugie, vero?

We can't understand Italiano.
And I'm ethnically may not be European, I'm Asian, but my skin is fair.

didn't i say they were racist. typical chutiya Italian.

Bhai mere language ka khayal rakh.
We must keep our forum clean.

 

[manutdfan]

Bhai mere language ka khayal rakh.
We must keep our forum clean.

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2: got it sir...
oye Italian chutiye teri mom ke meatballs bade tasty hai be