Fifth Z-10 squadron enters service

Discussion in 'China' started by ice berg, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    China Defense Blog

    Z-10 of the 1st LH Brigade, 54th Group Army, Jinan MR.

    [​IMG]

    Imagine there are still morons claiming that there are only a handful of those. ROFL
     
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  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    So they call this Z-10 now? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

    [​IMG]
     
    sagarpt27 likes this.
  4. sagarpt27

    sagarpt27 Regular Member

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    :thumb: Friend Chinees intrustry do not make their own they just buy and make a new copy whic is even worse than its original counterparts:taunt1:
     
  5. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    How choppers in 1 Chinese squadron?

    Copy whatever atleast they get something unless us who tend to reinvent the wheel each time.
     
  6. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Butthurt much? Only a moron will think an aviation brigade only consists of one type of helos. :laugh:
     
  7. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    5. they are not copy, we got support by French and Russia formally.
     
  8. limit_sky

    limit_sky Regular Member

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    True they are not copy.
    But they are example of Plagiarism where credit was not given where it was ought to be.
    So, what has happened had to happen.
     
  9. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Huh? Those who assisted the program got payed.Be it Russian or Italian. What more credit do you want? A first page ad on New york times or maybe ToI?
     
  10. limit_sky

    limit_sky Regular Member

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    Payment does not mean being liable to be discredited.
    Ex. Novels do carry name of the author even after being paid by publisher.

    There is no point crying over spilled milk.

    Next time ( yes there would be and would be many )
    sign non-disclosure agreement along with the copyright transfer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  11. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Eh,,, kid, military equipements are not the same as novels. Novels are to be published and read, military projects are by their very nature secretive. That is not a very good comparison, right?

    Why you need copyright transfer when you hire some people for help and payed them accordingly?

    It was your project, your requirements and your money. Their input was strictly according to your requirements. How do you copy your own project anyway? ROFL.

    Let me dumb it down for you. If say your dads company hires someone to design a car or a safety belt. Your dads company dont need to sign an agreement for copyright transfer, why? Because it is their car! It is the other party who need to sign an agreement saying their work with this car will not be transfered to other competitors. Get it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  12. limit_sky

    limit_sky Regular Member

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    The question is about being discredited.

    First tell me can the publisher discredit the author and say he/she himself / herself wrote it ? Because the novel belongs to the Publisher.( he/ she PAID for it)

    I had to overly simplified the statement by accompanying it with a example because i had a in thing that you may get it wrong but still I am disappointed.

    What do you mean when I say NEXT TIME?

    OK Let me make even simper for you.

    Let go whatever loss of face has been this time, you cannot do a shit about it alright ( your govt. is doing the same)

    and do two things in future

    1. for outsourced consultancy work sign non-disclosure agreement for long-long period of time. That is because it is meant to be kept a secret ( bingo you said it)

    2. sign copyright transfer agreement ( T-O-T) for technology that you buy intending it to be mass produced in your country so that nobody accuses you for copy and more loss of face.

    on the second part

    My dad is never going to claim every nut and bolt is manufactured by him leading to the assembly of the car. This includes the seat belt.

    Every body knows there would be subcontractors and vendors.( for your information they can belong to different countries)

    This happens so in my place. But does your dad claim he assembled his car in his garage and each and every component fabricated by him?
    Does he claim his process of manufacturing his car starts from extraction of ore for the metals needed all done by himself?


    My dad will give full credit to the designer of the seat belt and he has all rights to advertise that he has designed the same ( that is what the Russian did)

    Yes you are right by stating that the vendor cannot sell the designer to others.

    Well i have also not seen any author selling manuscript to a second publisher.( they are also under agreement not to do so)

    I hope this suffices but you can always ask for more clarification.

    Secondly, you should be generally appreciative of a person who is giving a piece of advice or two.
    But I am not disheartened because you guys are very sensitive to these kind of issues and can stereotype anything and everything related to it.

    Not your fault.
    Take care.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  13. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    QUOTE=limit_sky;698427]The question is about being discredited.

    First tell me can the publisher discredit the author and say he/she himself / herself wrote it ? Because the novel belongs to the Publisher.( he/ she PAID for it)
    QUOTE]

    Sorry, kid, I dont see what you are trying to say here.

    The publisher in this case is the chinese military establishment who hired someone to help them with a preminary design.
    Those people got payed and signed a NDA.
    Why will China sign some copy right agreement when they own the design and all the rights associated?

    You really need to work with your sentences. It is really hard to understand you sometimes.
     
  14. limit_sky

    limit_sky Regular Member

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    Nobody is arguing the fact that the owner of technology for Z-10 is China.
    You needn't sign copyright transfer for the this particular design.
    You can call it a indigenous design.Nobody is questioning that.

    You had Russian input for design for the design.( preliminary stage).
    You had signed a non-disclosure agreement which barred the Russian from
    1. coming out with nature of consultancy rendered for this project.
    2. coming out with the fact that their input was taken at any point of design phase.( that they are or were even involved)


    All these while ( till revelation ) your government kept asserting that it is a indigenous product and no help was taken from anyone including design.
    Which was in correct because you had input from them.
    What you did was took advantage of NDA as passed their input as your own work.

    This is the specific reason why every one was surprised when the revelation came.
    Not only Russian came out in the open stating that were involved but also specified their nature of input.( After completion of NDL term)



    Due to NDL you were under no obligation to appreciate Russian input and every right to remain silent.
    But still you cannot claim that initial design were yours.

    So this was a case of being discredited.

    Now tell me why this revelation was popularly believed that it was loss of face?

    Your primary objective behind NDL was to keep Russian involvement a secret, but it wasn't to be.


    Now coming to second part

    My suggestion was generic and not related to only this case.

    Now don't tell me that you have never violated any copyright law in the past.

    So by signing NDL also you could not hide Russian Involvement.
    So for the next time sign NDL for longer period of time or be appreciative of help taken.
     
  15. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Huh? When did PLA claimed that no help was taken from anyone? Provide a source please.
     
  16. limit_sky

    limit_sky Regular Member

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    Zhi-10 Attack Helicopter - SinoDefence.com

     
  17. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Oh my god, are you serious?

    Below were your exact words:

    All these while ( till revelation ) your government kept asserting that it is a indigenous product and no help was taken from anyone including design.
    Which was in correct because you had input from them.

    Now instead of backing up your claims with a source you using a internet blog as a proof? If you dont know the difference betwen official PLA statements and blogs, then you are not worth talking to,.

    That is like provide a DFI thread when I ask for official IA source.

    I hate talking to clueless kids....:frusty:
     
  18. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Z-10 Attack Helicopter | Military-Today.com

     
  19. limit_sky

    limit_sky Regular Member

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    Is it official?

    Wiki says "Science and Technology Daily (科技日报, Keji Ribao) is the official newspaper of the Ministry of Science and Technology of the People's Republic of China. It is published in Chinese and based in Beijing".
     
  20. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Your words:

    All these while ( till revelation ) your government kept asserting that it is a indigenous product and no help was taken from anyone including design.

    Where did the newspaper say that no help was taken from anyone including design? Keep digging, kid.

    Btw you should use better translators.
    这是我国自主研制真正意义上 的第一代专用武装直升机—
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  21. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015

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