Famous Pak Historian: We lost terribly in 65 war, our win is a "Big Lie and Myth"

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by rock127, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Famous Pak Historian: We lost terribly in 65 war, our win is a "big lie and myth"

    KARACHI: With Pakistan just two days away from observing Defence Day and marking the 50th anniversary of the 1965 war, famous Historian and Political Economist Dr S. Akbar Zaidi dispelled ‘the victory myth’, saying that there can be no a bigger lie, as Pakistan lost terribly.

    People are unaware of this fact because the history that is taught in Pakistan is from an ideological viewpoint, said Dr Zaidi during his thought-provoking lecture titled ‘Questioning Pakistan’s history’. “Students are not taught the history of the people of Pakistan rather it is focused on the making of Pakistan,” he said.

    [​IMG]

    The event was organised by the Faculty of Social Sciences, Karachi University.

    Dr Zaidi who also teaches history at the Institute of Business Administration, Karachi, began his lecture by raising a couple of questions: what is Pakistan’s history and is there a need to question Pakistan’s history. And when was Pakistan formed? Aug 14, 1947 or Aug 15, 1947? For him the fact we are still talking about historical events 68 years later that are apparently settled is interesting. “These events and questions have not been settled. They are constantly being reinterpreted, this is because history does not die, it keeps reliving by questioning facts and truths.”

    Coming to the question when was Pakistan created, he said one obvious answer is it did so on Aug 14, 1947 but he read out an excerpt from a Pakistan Studies textbook in which it was claimed it came into being in 712AD when the Arabs came to Sindh and Multan. “This is utter rubbish!” he exclaimed, rejecting the textbook account. He said the first interaction with Muslims and Arabs occurred in Kerala in South India for trading purposes.

    Some historians claim the genesis of Pakistan lie in the Delhi Sultanate or the Mughal Empire. He, however, reminded everyone that the India as we know today did not exist during the Mughal era. It was during the 19th century the concept of nation-state was formed. There are others who state Sir Syed Ahmed Khan laid the foundation for Pakistan. Dr Zaidi felt this statement was partially true, because Sir Syed always maintained that Muslims should get their rights but he had also said: “Hindus and Muslims are the two eyes of the beautiful bride that is Hindustan. Weakness of any of them will spoil the beauty of the bride.”

    The 1940 Pakistan Resolution called for the recognition of Muslims within Hindustan and not for a separate entity, Dr Zaidi added.

    Social history

    He then led the debate towards the questions: “Is the history of Pakistan, a history of the people of Pakistan or is it the making of Pakistan?”As far as he knew everyone is taught a history that includes the Mughals, freedom movement, the Quaid-i-Azam leading the All India Muslim League etc but was completely unaware about the history of the Baloch and the Pakhtun. “I cannot understand Pakistan’s history without knowing the history of the Baloch, Pakhtun, Punjab, Shah Abdul Latif and his relationship with the land.”

    He said he was ashamed as a Karachiite that he had been unaware of Sindh’s history. It was important to know about indigenous histories because the “issues we are confronted with, we would have a better understanding in dealing with them”. He gave the example of East Pakistan to illustrate this point. “East Pakistan has been erased from memory. The Bengalis of East Pakistan have been reduced to they were traitors, India interfered and East Pakistan decided to separate. But what about Pakistan Army’s role in its separation?”

    According to Dr Zaidi, history in Pakistan has been badly treated due to several reasons. Students are forced to study history or Pakistan Studies as a compulsory subject and hence the focus is just to pass the exam and get over with it. It is focused on rulers and generals and not on the social history. He highlighted another important reason for history getting a step-motherly treatment, citing that it is a subject that is taken when a student is unable to get admission in other departments in universities.

    A robust question and answer session followed the talk during which students and teachers wanted to know why they were being taught distorted version of history, why the contribution of religious minorities to cities such as Karachi, Lahore and Peshawar was not mentioned in their textbooks, why does one have to wear separate identities and how can identification crisis be resolved to make Pakistan into one nation.

    Dr Zaidi responded to these queries, explaining that Parsis and Hindus contributed hugely in the educational development of Karachi and in a similar manner the Sikhs in Punjab. “History in Pakistan is taught from an ideological viewpoint. Pakistan needs to be seen as a geographical entity.”

    Referring to the distorted history, he said: “With the celebration of the victory in the 1965 war round the corner, there can be no bigger lie that Pakistan won the war. We lost terribly in the 1965 war.”

    He appealed to the attendees to read Shuja Nawaz’s book Crossed Swords that exposed the reality of the war.As for wearing separate identities, he replied there was no need to do so. “I can be a Sindhi, Hindu and Pakistani simultaneously.” He added that the diversity of nations should be acknowledged, since nationalities could not be imposed on people.
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    @blue marlin @Neo @Raja.pakistani @Zarvan :
    Pleeeeej comment and don't run away.
     
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  3. Abhijat

    Abhijat Regular Member

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    If people of these regions ever get to know their true history , then current political structure of punjabi landlords dominated Pakistan will break up along with division of State itself.

    But, you could never stop people from getting to their "roots" , their culture . Primary example is India , which was subjugated Politically - Economically and Socially for centuries, but now able to recognize it's true History and will rightfully take it's place in landscape.
     
  4. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan on 1965 war : we went to capture Kashmir but succeeded in defending Lahore from India :p
     
  5. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Despite having superior weapons given by Amreki whereas India had rusting WW era weapons and already suffering from 62 defeat.

    Few FACTS which independent expert agreed upon...
    • Pakis lost 3 times the land than India lost.Pakis won only the useless area like Katch whereas India won the fertile and strategic areas of Pakistan.
    • Pakistan lost 80% of their ammo and India used just 20%.It was matter of days if not weeks that Pakis would have surrendered.
    • Pakistan lost the biggest tank battle(after WW) against inferior Indian tanks.
    • Pakis wanted to win Kashmir but ended defending Lahore.
     
  6. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    ok im commenting now are you happy @rock127. many historians have there own versions of what happened and people must respect their opinion, regardless if it right or not or if someone does not like it.
     
  7. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    It's a futile effort from Dr S. Akbar Zaidi. Beghairat Baki's will never accept the truth even if their own alllahhh says, you have lost to kufurs :D

    Either Dr S. Akbar Zaidi will retract from his assertions or he will be called as a TRAITOR henceforth.

    BTW, as always, Internet Jihadi's on DFI will either not comment or will deny the facts :D

    Cheers
     
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  8. Simple_Guy

    Simple_Guy Regular Member

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    Indian historians are realistic, and study actual data, before compiling war histories. Majority of paki historians are full of bluff, bluster and utter denial.

    This guy appears to be an exception. I have yet to read any paki article on the war with any detailed description or military data. It's all emotional junk....
     
  9. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    He is kufur raw agent . Is he alive ??
     
  10. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    What is your take on the 65 war ? Pakistanis claim victory because they think they have defended Lahore from Indian Army ...
     
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  11. gpawar

    gpawar Regular Member

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    Soon he will labeled as traitor like husian haqqani, tarek fatah.:bounce:

    How can almighty muslim warriors get defeated by puny infidels. Can you quote any verse in kuran or hadith to prove that it is even possible? :biggrin2:

    On very serious note, this is all because of madrasa distorted education that they will never listen to reason. They are simply happy that Shariah has laid down all rules and there is no need of any kind of critical thinking or improvement after that. That is why suddenly perfectly fine British judicial system is in-adequate for Muslims. (State within state)

     
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  12. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    It is India's bad luck that we succumbed to diplomatic pressures. Else we could have decimated Pakistan and taken back PoK. India lost many chances in 1947, 1965 and 1971.
    And today, the Paki mullahs are threatening us with nukes and the world is still watching. The chinkis support them. What a terrible mess we are in !
     
  13. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    Many historians from your country have acknowledged that Pakistan lost 1965 war. You and many of your countrymen are made to believe that your country won the wars and you still come to international forums and mindlessly argue about your 'victories'. Don't you people feel ashamed to argue like that even after many such articles have been published by neutral sources (For you people your media is the neutral source) that your army was caned in the a$$.

    We all want to hear from your friends in this forum about this....
     
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  14. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Do not expect a reply from him. It does not suit him.
     
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  15. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Even if we ignore all other factors of 65-war and look merely on the intent of Pakistani forces, what was that ? It was to occupy Kashmir by infiltrating idiots, which was failed by Indian attack on Lahore. So overall it was Indian victory.
     
  16. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    at one point I'm shown this
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34143102

    and then I'm shown this
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-34083174
     
  17. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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  18. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    then i shall not attempt to tell you other wise, you believe what you are told. :)
     
  19. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    so kindly enlighten us with your version of story Lord of Chakwal! :)
     
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  20. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    who's Chakwal i dont know much about the war. i'm the wrong person to ask for an opinion
     
  21. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    We being normal citizens we will not be able to access any secret Government files and cables. What we all know are from the Media, Government declarations, internet and books. Still we can use common sense to substantiate our beliefs. If you do that you will clearly understand what the actual truth is.

    When Pakistan started the war it had an objective to break Kashmir away from India. It also miscalculated the magnitude of Indian response. Reason? India was defeated in 1963 and hence it can be defeated easily. Clearly, Pakistan leadership had such a delusional view.

    It launched Operation Gibraltar but due to Kashmiri's lack of will to support PA that operation failed miserably and Pakistan ended up losing three times the territory India had lost. Had not been international pressure India clearly would have bisected Pakistan into two and freed Balochistan without any cold or hot start doctrine 50 years back. And the war ending abruptly Paki mullahs having claimed some Indian territory jumped in joy celebrating the victory. If you have brain to understand Pakistan is celebrating just "Defence Day" and not "Victory Day" like us. You just defended, how?

    You set an objective to capture Kashmir but ended up defending Lahore with some other territories and survived because of cease-fire pressures from international forums. Isn't it a definitive victory for India? Please note that India still had 80% of its ammunition with it and Pakistan had only 20% of ammunition when the cease-fire came into effect. Your country is brainwashing you that Pakistan successfully defended an Indian invasion. It was Pakistan which fished in troubled waters and got missiles and bombs straight up in to its a$$.

    I repeat, India won 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999 wars. Pakistan Army was again and again molested and abused by our Army and they are craving again for our Army's magical touch.

    Though you come across several articles don't just be a child and believe them blankly. Use your head.
     

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