F-16 supply to Pakistan to continue, says US

sayareakd

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Pakis should not be underestimated.

Think about this possibility. They get these code locked planes from US and then they get the Chinese to decode it and the Chinese learn US coding techniques and control frequencies and the Pakis can use these F-16s however they want. Remember, the Chinese are very good at cracking stuff.
it is within hardware not software, for this they have to temper with seals on the equipment, as per the terms of the agreement they have to allow US personals to inspect the aircraft, who will confirm if the seals are tempered with it or not. This was the exact clause which resulting in throwing both the US aircrafts from MRCA tender in India.
 

pmaitra

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it is within hardware not software, for this they have to temper with seals on the equipment, as per the terms of the agreement they have to allow US personals to inspect the aircraft, who will confirm if the seals are tempered with it or not. This was the exact clause which resulting in throwing both the US aircrafts from MRCA tender in India.
I am pretty sure if there is Indo-Pak conflict, they will get the Chinese to 'jailbreak' those planes. I am not sure how much leverage US inspectors will have then.

In any event, I am not at all happy with this news nor confident of US assurances.
 

Param

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I am pretty sure if there is Indo-Pak conflict, they will get the Chinese to 'jailbreak' those planes. I am not sure how much leverage US inspectors will have then.

In any event, I am not at all happy with this news nor confident of US assurances.
I am not too concerned, MKIs and MRCA need worthy targets.
 

mayfair

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Pakis should not be underestimated.

Think about this possibility. They get these code locked planes from US and then they get the Chinese to decode it and the Chinese learn US coding techniques and control frequencies and the Pakis can use these F-16s however they want. Remember, the Chinese are very good at cracking stuff.
True. But then US must be aware of this possibility. There have been enough instances of this kind in the past to make anyone aware of what Pakis and their tallel fliends are capable of. If this happens again then one may assume that

1. Americans were naive in assuming that Pakis would not go to the Chinese (unlikely).

2. Americans prepared for it by using such high precision encryption that they were confident that it could not be cracked without tripping some auto-destruct mechanism that would wipe out the entire software and render those planes a little more than shiny tin cans. After all military grade code must be harder to hack than standard tools and if it were that easy, their allies would not have been whining about being denied acess to the source codes.

3. Americans really don't care if the Pakis use them planes against India or to carry nuclear weapons. They may have made a big show about putting in these measures to ensure that these systems cannot be used against India, but may choose not to notice or wink and look away if Pakistan "accidently" stumbles across a way to override these "safety" mechanisms. Interestingly, Turkey was recently granted access to the F-16 source codes and they are pretty chummy with the Pakis. The the damn Yanks can claim, "Hey Bud, I did all I could, but bitches be crazy".

4. Perhaps no one is more familiar with Pakistaniyat, and in this context American and Chinese neeyat than India. Yet if we fall for this codsawallop and lower our guard thinking 'these planes will never fly East", then we perhaps deserve all the shite thrown at us in the past and in the future. I am sure when it happens (if past is any indication, it will happen), the likes of JayATL will either make themslves scarcer than a virgin in Las Vegas, if cornered will deny that it was these very planes that were used, and when each and everyone of their worthless arguments are shot down faster than those tincans once they cross the border, will blame us 'suckers' for escalating the conflict, or berate not buying the damn planes ourselves or froth and fume about how dare we destroy American property and finally go ballistic about how it would have never come to this if we had cast out lot with the purveyors of "In God we trust".
 
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pmaitra

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I am not too concerned, MKIs and MRCA need worthy targets.
Probably, from a chauvinistic angle.

I am not particularly a fan of a salamander measuring contest, if you know what I mean. :D
 

pmaitra

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True. But then US must be aware of this possibility. There have been enough instances of this kind in the past to make anyone awae of what Pais and their tallel fliends are capable of. If this happens again then one may assume that

1. Americans were naive in assuming that Pakis would not go to the Chinese (unlikely).

2. Americans preparaed for it by using such high precision encryption that they were confident that it could not be cracked without tripping some auto-destruct mechanism that would wipe out the entire software and render those planes flying junks. After all military grade code must be arder to hack than standard tools and if it were that easy, their allies would not have been whining about being denied acess to the source codes.

3. Americans really don't care if the Pakis use them planes against India or to carry nuclear weapons. They may have made a big show about putting in these measures to ensure that these systems cannot be used against India, but may choose not to notice or wink and look away if Pakistan "accidently" stumbles across a way to override these "safety" mechanisms. Interestingly, Turkey was recently granted access to the F-16 source codes and they are pretty chummy with the Pakis. The the damn Yanks can claim, "Hey Bud, I did all I could, but bitches be crazy".

4. Perhaps no one is more familiar with Pakistaniyat, and in this context American and Chinese neeyat than India. Yet if we fall for this codsawallop and lower our guard thinking 'these planes will never fly East", then we perhaps deserve all the shite thrown at us in the past and in the future. I am sure when it happens (if past is any indication, it will happen), the likes of JayATL will either make themslves scarcer than a virgin in Las Vegas, if cornered will deny that it was these very planes that were used, and when each and everyone of their worthless arguments are shot down faster than those tincans once they cross the border, will blame us 'suckers' for escalating the conflict, or berate not buying the damn planes ourselves or froth and fume about how dare we destroy American property and finally go ballistic about how it would have never come to this if we had cast out lot with the purveyors of "In God we trust".
Very thoughtful post.

Yes, points 3 and 4 are what I am thinking about.
 

Bhadra

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True. But then US must be aware of this possibility. There have been enough instances of this kind in the past to make anyone aware of what Pakis and their tallel fliends are capable of. If this happens again then one may assume that

1. Americans were naive in assuming that Pakis would not go to the Chinese (unlikely).

2. Americans prepared for it by using such high precision encryption that they were confident that it could not be cracked without tripping some auto-destruct mechanism that would wipe out the entire software and render those planes a little more than shiny tin cans. After all military grade code must be harder to hack than standard tools and if it were that easy, their allies would not have been whining about being denied acess to the source codes.

3. Americans really don't care if the Pakis use them planes against India or to carry nuclear weapons. They may have made a big show about putting in these measures to ensure that these systems cannot be used against India, but may choose not to notice or wink and look away if Pakistan "accidently" stumbles across a way to override these "safety" mechanisms. Interestingly, Turkey was recently granted access to the F-16 source codes and they are pretty chummy with the Pakis. The the damn Yanks can claim, "Hey Bud, I did all I could, but bitches be crazy".

4. Perhaps no one is more familiar with Pakistaniyat, and in this context American and Chinese neeyat than India. Yet if we fall for this codsawallop and lower our guard thinking 'these planes will never fly East", then we perhaps deserve all the shite thrown at us in the past and in the future. I am sure when it happens (if past is any indication, it will happen), the likes of JayATL will either make themslves scarcer than a virgin in Las Vegas, if cornered will deny that it was these very planes that were used, and when each and everyone of their worthless arguments are shot down faster than those tincans once they cross the border, will blame us 'suckers' for escalating the conflict, or berate not buying the damn planes ourselves or froth and fume about how dare we destroy American property and finally go ballistic about how it would have never come to this if we had cast out lot with the purveyors of "In God we trust".



Who is Pakistan adversary? India.

And Pakistanies would accept any equipment that is India proof ?

My foot. Are all of you guys dreamers or you all hallucinate to pass time ??

You mean to say Pakistan buys F-16 just to hoodwink and scare Indians?
Come off boys. Source codes or no codes..!!
 

mayfair

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Who is Pakistan adversary? India.

And Pakistanies would accept any equipment that is India proof ?

My foot. Are all of you guys dreamers or you all hallucinate to pass time ??

You mean to say Pakistan buys F-16 just to hoodwink and scare Indians?
Come off boys. Source codes or no codes..!!
Did you actually read the last point I wrote?
 

Bhadra

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Did you actually read the last point I wrote?
I agree but that is milder.

Indians remain under their self sustained hallucinations like "Americans will Jam those when used against India."

Every bit of American equipment supplied to Pakistan has been used not only against India but against USA in Afghanistan also.

I too appreciate America but some of us are 50 cent types.
 

noob101

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everyone assumes that the F16 is some magical aircraft .... there is nothing special about especially the ones that pak is getting..... US is not going to give them away for free and Pakistan doesn't have the money to pay for all of the best avionics and equipment.... What they are getting are really older models.... A wiki-leaks document said the following:

"Privately, however, the U.S. acknowledged the "reality" that the F-16 programme would not change India's "overwhelming air superiority over Pakistan." In fact, the cables bluntly assert that the F-16s would be "no match for India's proposed purchase of F-18 or equivalent aircraft."

Given India's "substantial military advantage," one cable (197576: confidential) even surmised that the F-16s would at the most offer "a few days" for the U.S. to "mediate and prevent nuclear conflict.""

<LINK>


IIRC 2 mig 29's got missile lock on F 16 during the kargil war.... there was a time when IAF mig 21 were fitted with BVR R 77 missiles and the F 16's didn't have BVR capability.... that would have been a sight to see a old vintage 1960's mig 21 shooting down the pride of the Pakistan air force..Also PAF has about 3 squadrons of F 16's and only one of those are block 52, In case of a war they wont be used in any offensive operations as they wont risk their best aircraft being shot down...

For all of those people that quote the "no use against India" clause..... there were people in the PAF from the even before the deal was made to find a way around this . As many have stated the Chinese and the Turks are pretty good bets.... In such a scenario the best US can do is withhold spares and other equipment which wont have any immediate effect. Even then in a major war UAE would probably transfer a few of its f 16s like it did in the past, and maybe spares as well.

Also everyone in the Indian defense establishment understands this only people outside of the establishment think that the US will prevent Pakistan from using its F 16's against India.
 
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mayfair

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I agree but that is milder.

Indians remain under their self sustained hallucinations like "Americans will Jam those when used against India."

Every bit of American equipment supplied to Pakistan has been used not only against India but against USA in Afghanistan also.

I too appreciate America but some of us are 50 cent types.
My point is exactly that. If we still suffer from those hallucinations then we cannot and should not blame anyone when the shite hits the fan.

It is not about wanking off to or at America. It is about looking out for oneself first. I belive most of us are fully aware of that except some who insist that we are all tossers who dare to question the Great Khan.
 

mayfair

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everyone assumes that the F16 is some magical aircraft ....
That is not the point. It may be a tin can for all that matters, yet it is another arrow in the quiver in the hands of an adversary. An arrow which need be countered when it comes to shove. Which will require using some of our own assets and the more of these means our arsenal will have t be spread out even further.

Pakistan is a epitome of a crazy neurotic bastard who'll think nothing of destroying itself if it can drag us down. They won't mind sending their pilots on a kamikaze mission to crash their shiny tin cans into the Jamnagar refinery even if the chances of succeeding are negative. Do not underestimate Pakistaniyat. The tosspots are capable of madness than one can scarcely fathom.
 

arya

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That is not the point. It may be a tin can for all that matters, yet it is another arrow in the quiver in the hands of an adversary. An arrow which need be countered when it comes to shove. Which will require using some of our own assets and the more of these means our arsenal will have t be spread out even further.

Pakistan is a epitome of a crazy neurotic bastard who'll think nothing of destroying itself if it can drag us down. They won't mind sending their pilots on a kamikaze mission to crash their shiny tin cans into the Jamnagar refinery even if the chances of succeeding are negative. Do not underestimate Pakistaniyat. The tosspots are capable of madness than one can scarcely fathom.

you are right but we are doing nothing even in so much time we didnot select a fighter planes for our IAF dont you think we should act more and speak less
 

noob101

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That is not the point. It may be a tin can for all that matters, yet it is another arrow in the quiver in the hands of an adversary. An arrow which need be countered when it comes to shove. Which will require using some of our own assets and the more of these means our arsenal will have t be spread out even further.

Pakistan is a epitome of a crazy neurotic bastard who'll think nothing of destroying itself if it can drag us down. They won't mind sending their pilots on a kamikaze mission to crash their shiny tin cans into the Jamnagar refinery even if the chances of succeeding are negative. Do not underestimate Pakistaniyat. The tosspots are capable of madness than one can scarcely fathom.
yes assuming you are right pakistan could also send its j 17 or any other Chinese junk on kamikaze missions. my point is why is there so much hype around the F 16's their quality and quantity are of almost no threat to India. its not like the US game them F 22 raptors!!!! what kind of madness are they capable of with the f 16s that they weren't before?
 

arya

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yes assuming you are right pakistan could also send its j 17 or any other Chinese junk on kamikaze missions. my point is why is there so much hype around the F 16's their quality and quantity are of almost no threat to India. its not like the US game them F 22 raptors!!!! what kind of madness are they capable of with the f 16s that they weren't before?
f16 is an god plane and we should not underestimate that , well the point is that what we are doing ??

are we ready for any surprise , what will we do if any thing wrong happen , how is our batteries , well not we are not ready for any surprise

dont you think on national level some dreal should be take place like a war
 

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