Expansion: The Call of the Hour for Indian Army

[bengalraider]

The problem is that the army expects uber modern, super powered equipment from domestic manufacturers from day one, the army sorely needs to realize that weapons development is an evolutionary process,there is no weapons system in the world that was world beating from the first prototype.Also the MIL-IND complex needs to be made much more accountable and impeachable

 

[Ray]

The Army can always subcontract maintenance work. For example Mahindra, Tata vehicles can be serviced by the manufacturer directly. The manufacturer can set up special workshops at many places for the army.

The ordnance depot cannot be subcontracted to civilians. Handling ordnance is a specialized jobs where civilians have no expertise.

Servicing of tanks, armoured vehicles etc. can also be subcontracted to companies like Mahindra, Tata etc. Only companies that have stability and size and can ensure security and safety can be entrusted with servicing and repair work.

The Army is not a static organisation in war.

It moves and moves rapidly.

That is why we have different echelon for logistic management.

Hence, cannot be subcontracted, since the private companies will not have mobility and they would not take the risk for their personnel or pay the type of compensation paid by the Govt to their war dead or injured or medically boarded out.

 

[Ray]

The problem is that the army expects uber modern, super powered equipment from domestic manufacturers from day one, the army sorely needs to realize that weapons development is an evolutionary process,there is no weapons system in the world that was world beating from the first prototype.Also the MIL-IND complex needs to be made much more accountable and impeachable

The point you raise is valid about requirement state of the art weaponry and equipment.

The issue is that we have to be better than our adversary in our weapon and equipment profile and they do the same when they compare with us.

In war there is no second prizes.

That is the problem - no second prizes.

In as far as expansion is concerned, it must be understood that raising an establishment is not all. Kitting it, and most importantly training the units to be cohesive takes time. Therefore, the gestation period is long. It is not just given a man a rifle and making him stand post.

 

[sgarg]

Mr Ray, the "best", even "better" are very controversial terms.

It is better to settle for the optimum.

The forces need to come out of the brochure mentality and learn to be practical.

It is very hard to import stuff as things get controversial very fast. An Indian defence-industrial complex is the best bet for army.

 

[sgarg]

The Army is not a static organisation in war.

It moves and moves rapidly.

That is why we have different echelon for logistic management.

Hence, cannot be subcontracted, since the private companies will not have mobility and they would not take the risk for their personnel or pay the type of compensation paid by the Govt to their war dead or injured or medically boarded out.

Not all, but many vehicles can be serviced by private companies. At least they can set up maintenance facilities along with major army bases.
Army can retain capability is areas where mobility is critical. I am sure bulk of army vehicles like trucks, bullet proof vehicles, jeeps, bikes, etc, can be serviced at private sector facilities.

 

[Ray]

Not all, but many vehicles can be serviced by private companies. At least they can set up maintenance facilities along with major army bases.
Army can retain capability is areas where mobility is critical. I am sure bulk of army vehicles like trucks, bullet proof vehicles, jeeps, bikes, etc, can be serviced at private sector facilities.

At major bases?

Major bases do not have static units and instead have field formations.

Each field echelon has its logistic unit setup of combat service support units.

So, what will be achieved by servicing by private companies? That is apart from adding redundancy and waste of money from the Defence Estimates?

Can the personnel and infrastructure for each field echelon be disbanded and demobbed?

 

[sgarg]

Just compare the 2 biggest PROVEN threats India has ie. China and Pakistan.

Talking of Standing Army China and India has same population but China's Army is double. Pakistan is 1/8 of Indian in population but still has 1/2 of Indian Army.

Basically India is having a minimal deterrence force and spends hardly 2.5% whereas China and Pakistan spends double the amount they admit ie. 2%, 3%.

India desperately needs modernized active force with 2 Million reserve troops ie. basically a 3+ Million Army with special emphasis on Navy and Airforce.

You have to see military size not in terms of population or economy but in terms of government income.

India's problem is industrialization is inadequate. Agriculture cannot be taxed as it supports half the population.

It is very difficult to increase active troops due to attendant increase in expenses.

However reserves can be increased by providing one year or two year military training to young people. It is easily possible to create a reserve force of 5-6 million men. This would need training one million young men every year (from age group 17-19) in basic military skills.

 

[sgarg]

At major bases?

Major bases do not have static units and instead have field formations.

Each field echelon has its logistic unit setup of combat service support units.

So, what will be achieved by servicing by private companies? That is apart from adding redundancy and waste of money from the Defence Estimates?

Can the personnel and infrastructure for each field echelon be disbanded and demobbed?

Mr Ray, the problem with government servants in India is they always think in terms of men rather than in terms of work.

The important thing is to get the work done. It is not about that an officer must command x nos of men.

Yes, the support staff in army can be reduced and some work can be outsourced.

Even in war, civilians will be called upon to perform a variety of tasks. The army cannot function independently. The Army can make use of civilian infrastructure and resources wherever possible.

 

[Ray]

Mr Ray, the problem with government servants in India is they always think in terms of men rather than in terms of work.

The important thing is to get the work done. It is not about that an officer must command x nos of men.

Yes, the support staff in army can be reduced and some work can be outsourced.

Even in war, civilians will be called upon to perform a variety of tasks. The army cannot function independently. The Army can make use of civilian infrastructure and resources wherever possible.

If war could be outsourced, it would be a feasible proposition.

One has to be in a war to realise the reality beyond well intentioned theory.

Experience shows that the Army succeeds wherever others fail, including saving lives of those who fall in unlined borewells.

Further, what you say has been tried with little success.

 

[bengalraider]

@Ray -sir first things first "apnake bijoya pronam janalam"
I wanted to know one thing with appropriate tweaks in our legal system how feasible do you think it would be to create an Indian blackwater type force out of ex military personnel for deployment in places like Afghanistan and Iraq where we have sizeable interests to protect.

 

[Ray]

@Ray -sir first things first "apnake bijoya pronam janalam"
I wanted to know one thing with appropriate tweaks in our legal system how feasible do you think it would be to create an Indian blackwater type force out of ex military personnel for deployment in places like Afghanistan and Iraq where we have sizeable interests to protect.

"apnake bijoya subho kamona janalam"

It will have to be a political decision and I wonder if India is up to it.