Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India warn

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,951
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

@Yusuf Bhai @saya , do you have any info whether we are at a stage to simulate the nuke test & estimate the yield data?
Pat we have data of 6 nuke tests, plus supercompters to simulate what happen in nuke explosion, plus what were tested in 1998 were vintage design as far as 1998 is concern. Now we have new age nukes which are lighter in weight. I think max weight is standard 1000 kg and rest are all small nukes. I ak saying this because all the (mostly) agni missile have same payload. New agni has 1500 kg which means three 500 kg warhead or more in MIRV (guess) as not much is known about our nuke programme.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Vishwarupa

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
2,438
Likes
3,600
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

NEW DELHI: India will retaliate massively even if Pakistan uses tactical nuclear weapons against it. With Pakistan developing "tactical" nuclear warheads, that is, miniaturizing its weapons to be carried on short-range missiles, India will protect its security interests by retaliating to a "smaller" tactical attack in exactly the same manner as it would respond to a "big" strategic attack.

Articulating Indian nuclear policy in this regard for the first time, Shyam Saran, convener of the National Security Advisory Board, said, "India will not be the first to use nuclear weapons, but if it is attacked with such weapons, it would engage in nuclear retaliation which will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage on its adversary. The label on a nuclear weapon used for attacking India, strategic or tactical, is irrelevant from the Indian perspective." This is significant, because Saran was placing on record India's official nuclear posture with the full concurrence of the highest levels of nuclear policymakers in New Delhi.

Giving a speech on India's nuclear deterrent recently, Saran placed India's nuclear posture in perspective in the context of recent developments, notably the "jihadist edge" that Pakistan's nuclear weapons capability have acquired.

Saran argued that as a result of its tactical weapons, Pakistan believes it has brought down the threshold of nuclear use. "Pakistani motivation is to dissuade India from contemplating conventional punitive retaliation to sub-conventional but highly destructive and disruptive cross-border terrorist strikes such as the horrific 26/11 attack on Mumbai. What Pakistan is signalling to India and to the world is that India should not contemplate retaliation even if there is another Mumbai because Pakistan has lowered the threshold of nuclear use to the theatre level. This is nothing short of nuclear blackmail, no different from the irresponsible behaviour one witnesses in North Korea," he said.

One of the main reasons for Pakistan miniaturizing its nukes is actually to keep its weapons from being confiscated or neutralized by the US, a fear that has grown in the Pakistani establishment in the wake of the operation against Osama bin Laden. "Pakistan has, nevertheless, projected its nuclear deterrent as solely targeted at India and its strategic doctrine mimics the binary nuclear equation between the US and the Soviet Union which prevailed during the Cold War," Saran said.

However, warning Pakistan, he added, "A limited nuclear war is a contradiction in terms. Any nuclear exchange, once initiated, would swiftly and inexorably escalate to the strategic level. Pakistan would be prudent not to assume otherwise as it sometimes appears to do, most recently by developing and perhaps deploying theatre nuclear weapons."

There have been significant shifts in Pakistan's nuclear posture recently. First is the movement from uranium to a newer generation of plutonium weapons, which has enabled Pakistan to increase the number of weapons, outstripping India in weapons and fissile material production. Although they are still to be verified, Pakistan has claimed it has miniaturized nuclear weapons to be used on cruise missiles and other short-range missiles. The newer generation of Pakistan's weapons are also solid-fuelled rather than liquid, making them easier to transport and launch.

Strike by even a midget nuke will invite massive response, India warns Pak - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site
Sirji,

Why this sudden statement from India? Is this to cover up or divert Indians from chinese intrusion or is there any intelligence report about pakis miniaturizing its nuclear arsenal?

.Or is it routine warning to pakis?
 

drkrn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
2,455
Likes
902
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Something does not fit the bill here. First we say Pak has now more nukes than India. Then we say we will inflict massive damage on them. Max damage means more nukes to glass each an every inch of Pak.

Western Intel on Indian nukes not accurate.
pakistani landmass is less on comparision to india so we dont need more bombs.
 

rock127

Maulana Rockullah
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
10,569
Likes
25,230
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

pakistani landmass is less on comparision to india so we dont need more bombs.
Did we make nukes only for Pakis?
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Still my question begs simple answer .

Area affected by detonation of 1 MT yielding nuclear fissile material ????


And if we don't want any retaliation then silos and hardened underground bunkers storing their nukes need to be taken out at first strike itself.
The effect of a nuclear weapon depends on a variety of factors. A 1MT nuke will level a radius of 3 kms at least.

We will not strike first as that is not our doctrine. Pak missiles are all road mobile, air launched using fighter bombers so we cannot strike first. Only a crazy man can order the launch of nukes for a first strike
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Sirji,

Why this sudden statement from India? Is this to cover up or divert Indians from chinese intrusion or is there any intelligence report about pakis miniaturizing its nuclear arsenal?

.Or is it routine warning to pakis?
Last time the NSA made a statement on nukes, he changed the doctrine from NFU to NFU against NNWS.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

The statement should be taken in the light that India may well have put te cold start in an operational mode or is close to it and that we will use it the next time Pakis do anything against our country and them developing Nasr as a counter with Tactical Nukes is not going to go unanswered.

What it means is that the NSA has confirmed what we have been telling people like farhan here that your Nasr is useless as a deterrent is true. We will strike back at them at their cities if they has tactical nukes against our forces.

Basically they will use tactical nukes on their own territory against our forces and we will glass them. Double strike!!!
 

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,615
Likes
5,772
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Sirji,

Why this sudden statement from India? Is this to cover up or divert Indians from chinese intrusion or is there any intelligence report about pakis miniaturizing its nuclear arsenal?

.Or is it routine warning to pakis?
We keep fine tuning our nuke weapon policy and any changes or clarifications are given on occasions such as seminars/symposiums. These clarifications are needed because it will send a clear message to enemies to not misinterpret our nuke policy like Pakis like to do. They thought using tactical weapons will not invite retaliation from India and now they got a clear answer. It doesn't matter if the nuke is 1kt or 1000kt, the retaliation will be massive. Now that will put paid to the nuclear blackmail of Pakis.
 

AKHAND BHARAT

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
30
Likes
11
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

The effect of a nuclear weapon depends on a variety of factors. A 1MT nuke will level a radius of 3 kms at least.

We will not strike first as that is not our doctrine. Pak missiles are all road mobile, air launched using fighter bombers so we cannot strike first. Only a crazy man can order the launch of nukes for a first strike
Only 3km?? radius of area ie 28 sq km area affected then then by that calculation we would need at least 800000/28= 28571 pieces of One MT nuke material.
You must be wrong for only 3 km radius of affected area.

I couldn't get correct answer of my simple question .Can anybody else try ???

Your info does 't seem ok now I will need to google that.
 
Last edited:

Dovah

Untermensch
Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
5,614
Likes
6,793
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Only 3km?? radius of area ie 28 sq km area affected then then by that calculation we would need at least 800000/28= 28571 pieces of One MT nuke material.
You must be wrong for only 3 km radius of affected area.

I couldn't get correct answer of my simple question .Can anybody else try ???

Your info does 't seem ok now I will need to google that.
1 MT nuke would have a blast radius of about 7 km. But the real killer would be fallout. The radiation would affect an area far larger.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Only 3km?? radius of area ie 28 sq km area affected then then by that calculation we would need at least 800000/28= 28571 pieces of One MT nuke material.
You must be wrong for only 3 km radius of affected area.

I couldn't get correct answer of my simple question .Can anybody else try ???

Your info does 't seem ok now I will need to google that.
I said level 3kms radius. Doesn't mean it will not damage beyond. The destructive power reduces as distance increases in a certain equation.

Destruction also depends on other factors like type of building construction etc. A Japanese survived with minor burns in the Hiroshima attack though she was 300 mtrs away from the 16kt blast. Coz she was indoors in a well constructed place.
 

AKHAND BHARAT

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
30
Likes
11
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

1 MT nuke would have a blast radius of about 7 km. But the real killer would be fallout. The radiation would affect an area far larger.
Yes I wan't that answer fallout upto radius of ????
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Yes I wan't that answer fallout upto radius of ????
Fallout is contained in a air burst but is very high in a ground burst.
Wind patterns etc affect this. The British and the US did a lot of test on surface not to perfect their warheads but to study the various affects of nukes. Needless to say the information is classified. After the partial test ban treaty, no one conducted surface tests.

So we can just about guess everything.
 

Dovah

Untermensch
Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
5,614
Likes
6,793
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Yes I wan't that answer fallout upto radius of ????
That would depend really, nuclear fallout is carried by winds(radioactive dust) and will probably get deposited in water too. Even a small bomb is a city killer in this regard.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Pat we have data of 6 nuke tests, plus supercompters to simulate what happen in nuke explosion, plus what were tested in 1998 were vintage design as far as 1998 is concern. Now we have new age nukes which are lighter in weight. I think max weight is standard 1000 kg and rest are all small nukes. I ak saying this because all the (mostly) agni missile have same payload. New agni has 1500 kg which means three 500 kg warhead or more in MIRV (guess) as not much is known about our nuke programme.
Yes our warhead is now 500kgs in weight for mad yield 300kt.
 

AKHAND BHARAT

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
30
Likes
11
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Fallout is contained in a air burst but is very high in a ground burst.
Wind patterns etc affect this. The British and the US did a lot of test on surface not to perfect their warheads but to study the various affects of nukes. Needless to say the information is classified. After the partial test ban treaty, no one conducted surface tests.

So we can just about guess everything.
You could have answered this to my first post of this thread itself .
Anyway thanks for knowing that adequate data is not available in public domain, but then only God knows what are those all simulation test are all about.
 

AKHAND BHARAT

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
30
Likes
11
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

That would depend really, nuclear fallout is carried by winds(radioactive dust) and will probably get deposited in water too. Even a small bomb is a city killer in this regard.
Don't twist it buddy I simply asked it multiple times area area area AREA affected by fallout considering normal regular wind speed of 3-8 km./ hour.
 

AKHAND BHARAT

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
30
Likes
11
Re: Even a midget nuke strike will lead to massive retaliation, India

Yes our warhead is now 500kgs in weight for mad yield 300kt.
I am again asking it, Is there any credible official source available on the Internet to substantiate your claims regarding yield of 300KT.

Now plz answer me in binary , yes or no. No twisting of answer this time around.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top