Europe Future demography

[Dovah]

Cultures and traditions dont change they evolve. It is fact.

What were people following before hinduism ? didn't they evolve and came about with hinduism.

Also, "Indian Culture" that people talk of missed a few centuries of isolated evolution, with the advent of the British it was inevitable for the indigenous culture to lose ground since we were weak and divided, had we won that war of civilizations you'd see the Europeans typing in Hindi(Sanskrit), wearing Dhoti and talking of how glorious the Greeks were.

 

[The Messiah]

I agree. :thumb:



Must be from Iron age to IVC.

You missed my point deliberately, I suppose.

Persia and South Korea ??

except for religion what has changed in persia ? they speak same language, eat same food, have same conservative family values, even adapted islam to suite themselves.

you religious people think of religion as important thing. i dont know traditions you talk about in India about losing Indianess. I dont follow any religious tradition what so ever and im more extremeist in my views than you regarding nationalism.

 

[civfanatic]

Also, "Indian Culture" that people talk of missed a few centuries of isolated evolution, with the advent of the British it was inevitable for the indigenous culture to lose ground since we were weak and divided, had we won that war of civilizations you'd see the Europeans typing in Hindi(Sanskrit), wearing Dhoti and talking of how glorious the Greeks were.

That would be a sight to see.

The story have just begun.

Seriously, I hate pseudo-history.

 

[Galaxy]

except for religion what has changed in persia ? they speak same language, eat same food, have same conservative family values, even adapted islam to suite themselves.

you religious people think of religion as important thing. i dont know traditions you talk about in India about losing Indianess. I dont follow any religious tradition what so ever and im more extremeist in my views than you regarding nationalism.

Everything has changed.

Capital punishment in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A person who converts into other religion will face beheading. Recently an Iranian actress acted in a film as per 21st century, She faced stone till death.

What more change you want ?? A country who controlling Shi'a Hezbollah and killed 1,000 of jews. One of the most isolated country, Dictatorship, Radical Islamic country and many more.

Whereas 2,000 years back, Persia was one of the most advance country in most of the fields. In Short, religion changed and Way of life, Culture, Tradition and everything changes and that is fact.

Religion is not only about faith on God but way of life

 

[The Messiah]

Everything has changed.

Capital punishment in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A person who converts into other religion will face beheading. Recently an Iranian actress acted in a film as per 21st century, She faced stone till death.

What more change you want ?? A country who controlling Shi'a Hezbollah and killed 1,000 of jews. One of the most isolated country, Dictatorship, Radical Islamic country and many more.

Whereas 2,000 years back, Persia was one of the most advance country in most of the fields. In Short, religion changed all the things. Religion changes, Way of life, Culture, Tradition and everything changes and that is fact.

That is not tradition it is law by a radical govt. Jews are there enemy. I dont shed tears when pakis are killed. There are different point of view for everyone.

and 100 years ago uk was the most powerful country. list changes in culture ? except for religion nothing has changed.

traditions just for the sake of tradition are idiotic. it is tradition to wash idol with milk...what benefit does that get ? tell me.

instead of pointing fingers at tradition, culture and all that why not come clean and say you want to main unique identity in the world irregardless of anything.

 

[Ray]

Religion does play in cultural changes.

I could expand, but I do not want to get into it right now.

and yet, as stated the UK was a powerful country. They lorded over and none could challenge them. The whiteman was supreme.

And today?

They are being changed in their psyche, culture and traditions by immigrants, from Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe!

"Culture" is most commonly used in three basic senses:

1. Excellence of taste in the fine arts and humanities, also known as high culture.

2. An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning.

3. The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization, or group

 

[Galaxy]

That is not tradition it is law by a radical govt. Jews are there enemy. I dont shed tears when pakis are killed. There are different point of view for everyone.

Why there is no such Law in India or China or Spain or Argentina ?? why only Middle-East countries like Iran ?? Isn't the answer is very obvious ?? It is because Iran is Islamic republic of Iran. All changed because of religion and i came to know all by a Iranian person who follows Zoroastrian. :thumb:

Indigenous population was destroyed and persecuted once they become minority. Today not even 0.1% are living in their home land. 2/3rd lives in Mumbai/Maharashtra who came in 5th century.

and 100 years ago uk was the most powerful country. list changes in culture ? except for religion nothing has changed.

U.K. was Christian majority country in past also and present also. Yes, 100 years back U.K. was most powerful country but even today they are not weak. Powerful country names changes and it has nothing to do with Culture and Religion. You are mixing two different things. U.K. is democratic, Secular, Developed and one of the largest GDP size nominal. They still has strong influence. Example: We using their 40 year old Air craft carrier and they gave Indian Ocean island (Diego Gracia) to U.S. for their CBG. Ruling the world is old thing and no one rules the world like 19th and early 20th century.

traditions just for the sake of tradition are idiotic. it is tradition to wash idol with milk...what benefit does that get ? tell me. instead of pointing fingers at tradition, culture and all that why not come clean and say you want to main unique identity in the world irregardless of anything.

You are diverting the topic altogether. Culture and Tradition represent the country. we have very rich culture, tradition and heritage and we should respect and promote it. Yes, there are many modern things which is needed and we should adapt 21st century and we doing also. Isn't it ??

But my main point was/is Religion changes then culture and tradition also changes. India is India because of our History. Today, If we change our culture and tradition then we won't remain same India.

 

[The Messiah]

Religion does play in cultural changes.

I could expand, but I do not want to get into it right now,

The culture and tradition brigade in India are hypocrites. They have absorbed many western traditions.

Only islamic ones pinch the most though. valentines day is celebrated, christmas is celebrated by a good portion of hindus but muslim events are not. It seems India has incorporated more western ones yet muslim get the stick.

hatred of pakis has turned into hatred for muslims and this battle the pakis have won because that was and is there objective.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Only islamic ones pinch the most though. valentines day is celebrated, christmas is celebrated by a good portion of hindus but muslim events are not. It seems India has incorporated more western ones yet muslim get the stick.

Christmas and Valentines day are celebrated because these events have been marketed very well (greeting card companies, gifts, movies etc etc). Islamic festivals don't have such PR value (yet)

 

[Galaxy]

The culture and tradition brigade in India are hypocrites. They have absorbed many western traditions.

Only islamic ones pinch the most though. valentines day is celebrated, christmas is celebrated by a good portion of hindus but muslim events are not. It seems India has incorporated more western ones yet muslim get the stick.

hatred of pakis has turned into hatred for muslims and this battle the pakis have won because that was and is there objective.

because there is no Blasphemy law in Christian. It gives complete freedom. I will love to live in Brazil than KSA even when i heard KSA is much more developed. 8)

Religion reflects Culture and Country. It's fact. That's why Christmas Day is most popular festival in the world.

 

[The Messiah]

Why there is no such Law in India or China or Spain or Argentina ?? why only Middle-East countries like Iran ?? Isn't the answer is very obvious ?? It is because Iran is Islamic republic of Iran. All changed because of religion and i came to know all by a Iranian person who follows Zoroastrian. :thumb:

Indigenous population was destroyed and persecuted once they become minority. Today not even 0.1% are living in their home land. 2/3rd lives in Mumbai/Maharashtra who came in 5th century.




U.K. was Christian majority country in past also and present also. Yes, 100 years back U.K. was most powerful country but even today they are not weak. Powerful country names changes and it has nothing to do with Culture and Religion. You are mixing two different things. U.K. is democratic, Secular, Developed and one of the largest GDP size nominal. They still has strong influence. Example: We using their 40 year old Air craft carrier and they gave Indian Ocean island (Diego Gracia) to U.S. for their CBG. Ruling the world is old thing and no one rules the world like 19th and early 20th century.



You are diverting the topic altogether. Culture and Tradition represent the country. we have very rich culture, tradition and heritage and we should respect and promote it. Yes, there are many modern things which is needed and we should adapt 21st century and we doing also. Isn't it ??

But my main point was/is Religion changes then culture and tradition also changes. India is India because of Past. If we change our Culture and Tradition then we won't remain same India and it will be very bad. May be I have to go to Nepal.

So death penalty is only there because it is islamic country and not because they run by extremist nutjobs ? well what about muslim countries that dont have blasphemy law that give death penalty like Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Bosnia, Chad, Senegal etc

Well they are clear of arab master aren't they now ? so why not revert back ? i dont know about you but i prefer burial to letting the body rot out in the open. Even the norse religion perished in europe, i dont see them shedding tears. Indian analogy doesn't not apply to anyone...it is unique.

Traditions and culture represent the country but they evolve with times but you want them to remain static. Sati and caste system were also part of culture and traditions so should we go back to them ? womean could not hold property and couples could not divorce so should we go back to that ? People who fear change and suffer from inferiority complex die out. Luckily your ancestors weren't as feeble minded. Never be scared, always be ready to absorb good points of others and add them to yourself without shedding your good points in the process. I am not saying do away with culture and traditions, i am saying let them evolve with times and do away with archaic ones and better refine existing ones.

 

[The Messiah]

because there is no Blasphemy law in Christian. It gives complete freedom. I will love to live in Brazil than KSA even when i heard KSA is much more developed. 8)

Religion reflects Culture and Country. It's fact. That's why Christmas Day is most popular festival in the world.

There is no blasphemy law now but it was there not long ago.

Religion does not represent me. In my view religious people are feeble minded. Hinduism gives scope for atheism so where does religion come into it ? I would even go as far as to say that hinduism is not religion! it is way of life 8)

 

[The Messiah]

Christmas and Valentines day are celebrated because these events have been marketed very well (greeting card companies, gifts, movies etc etc). Islamic festivals don't have such PR value (yet)

It is still not traditional Indian culture.

That was the point.

 

[Ray]

The culture and tradition brigade in India are hypocrites. They have absorbed many western traditions.

Only islamic ones pinch the most though. valentines day is celebrated, christmas is celebrated by a good portion of hindus but muslim events are not. It seems India has incorporated more western ones yet muslim get the stick.

hatred of pakis has turned into hatred for muslims and this battle the pakis have won because that was and is there objective.

Christmas is celebrated not because it is hypocrisy to celebrate. It is because it was impressed upon the large mass of Indians by the British ruler as a day for celebrations and great festivity and also it brought a prolonged period of holidays. Therefore, all Indians loving a great tamasha and loving to be allowed to take days off from work, played ball.

Valentine is a recent addition, but that is purely for commercial purpose and an excuse for the modern liberated mass, especially collegians, for some uninhibited masti.

Islamic celebrations have never embraced the non Muslim masses to celebrate since Muslims have been insular as they did not want non believers to defile their religion. Thus, one did not find reason to upset the Muslims by joining in their festivity and instead watch the show from the fringes. Therefore, that is possibly the reason why Muslim festivals have not caught on.

Today all this iftar and all that is merely for politicians showing how secular they are. Or Mamata Bannerjee putting the saree on her head in a most untidy way and pretending to read the namaz during Id. In fact, I wonder if she know what is fajr, zuhr, asr, maghrib and isha!

They make a mockery of the religious rites and its pious sanctity!

Muslims of Bengal, many of them, join in the festivity of Durga Puja, not because of religious reasons, but because it is a great time having a ball! And Hindus don't prevent them from joining in the fun!

Yet, the Muslims of Bengal don't join in, say, Lakhsmi Puja. Why? Because there is no scope for fun and frolic!

 

[Galaxy]

So death penalty is only there because it is islamic country and not because they run by extremist nutjobs ? well what about muslim countries that dont have blasphemy law that give death penalty like Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kosovo, Bosnia, Chad, Senegal etc

Well they are clear of arab master aren't they now ? so why not revert back ? i dont know about you but i prefer burial to letting the body rot out in the open. Even the norse religion perished in europe, i dont see them shedding tears. Indian analogy doesn't not apply to anyone...it is unique.

Traditions and culture represent the country but they evolve with times but you want them to remain static. Sati and caste system were also part of culture and traditions so should we go back to them ? womean could not hold property and couples could not divorce so should we go back to that ? People who fear change and suffer from inferiority complex die out. Luckily your ancestors weren't as feeble minded as you. Never be scared, always be ready to absorb good points of others and add them to yourself without shedding your good points in the process. I am not saying do away with culture and traditions, i am saying let them evolve with times and do away with archaic ones and better refine existing ones.

Islamic country = Extremist nutjobs are similar thing. Yes, I said that as i know i am saying the fact. Recently, I started a thread what Indonesian extremist Islamist doing in Buddhist country. Read more on that. Blasphemy is in 40 odd countries. Do you know history of Turkey and CAR countries ??

Syria, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Lebanon are not owned by Arab master.

Do you know Dr. Assad ?? Saddam Hussain ?? Hezbollah ?? who runs Indonesia or Turkey ??

You need to do some more research on that.

Is it coincident that people are killed, live in fear, blame everything on West, Israel and Non-Muslims, 99% terrorist comes from these countries, Dictatorship, Anti Non-Muslims in these countries only ?? 2 or 3 countries can be wrong but not 50 countries sir

 

[The Messiah]

Christmas is celebrated not because it is hypocrisy to celebrate. It is because it was impressed upon the large mass of Indians by the British ruler as a day for celebrations and great festivity and also it brought a prolonged period of holidays. Therefore, all Indians loving a great tamasha and loving to be allowed to take days off from work, played ball.

Valentine is a recent addition, but that is purely for commercial purpose and an excuse for the modern liberated mass, especially collegians, for some uninhibited masti.

Islamic celebrations have never embraced the non Muslim masses to celebrate since Muslims have been insular as they did not want non believers to defile their religion. Thus, one did not find reason to upset the Muslims by joining in their festivity and instead watch the show from the fringes. Therefore, that is possibly the reason why Muslim festivals have not caught on.

Today all this iftar and all that is merely for politicians showing how secular they are. Or Mamata Bannerjee putting the saree on her head in a most untidy way and pretending to read the namaz during Id. In fact, I wonder if she know what is fajr, zuhr, asr, maghrib and isha!

They make a mockery of the religious rites and its pious sanctity!

Muslims of Bengal, many of them, join in the festivity of Durga Puja, not because of religious reasons, but because it is a great time having a ball! And Hindus don't prevent them from joining in the fun!

Yet, the Muslims don't join in say Lakhsmi Puja. Why? Because there is no scope for fun and frolic!

I know the reasons.

Point is that it is not Indian tradition and that tradition and culture chest thumpers should speak out against them also rather than celebrating it themselves.

 

[LurkerBaba]

It is still not traditional Indian culture.

That was the point.

No, you point originally was

Only islamic ones pinch the most though. valentines day is celebrated, christmas is celebrated by a good portion of hindus but muslim events are not. It seems India has incorporated more western ones yet muslim get the stick.

hatred of pakis has turned into hatred for muslims and this battle the pakis have won because that was and is there objective.

You were implying that "islamic" stuff is rejected due to hatred etc etc. The real reason is that, islamic stuff is not even marketed (for whatever reasons)

EDIT: didn't see the post by Ray sir.

Islamic celebrations have never embraced the non Muslim masses to celebrate since Muslims have been insular as they did not want non believers to defile their religion. Thus, one did not find reason to upset the Muslims by joining in their festivity and instead watch the show from the fringes. Therefore, that is possibly the reason why Muslim festivals have not caught on.

Today all this iftar and all that is merely for politicians showing how secular they are. Or Mamata Bannerjee putting the saree on her head in a most untidy way and pretending to read the namaz during Id. In fact, I wonder if she know what is fajr, zuhr, asr, maghrib and isha!

They make a mockery of the religious rites and its pious sanctity!

Muslims of Bengal, many of them, join in the festivity of Durga Puja, not because of religious reasons, but because it is a great time having a ball! And Hindus don't prevent them from joining in the fun!

Yet, the Muslims of Bengal don't join in, say, Lakhsmi Puja. Why? Because there is no scope for fun and frolic!

 

[The Messiah]

Islamic country = Extremist nutjobs are similar thing. Yes, I said that as i know i am saying the fact. Recently, I started a thread what Indonesian extremist Islamist doing in Buddhist country. Read more on that. Blasphemy is in 40 odd countries. Do you know history of Turkey and CAR countries ??

Syria, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Lebanon are not owned by Arab master.

Do you know Dr. Assad ?? Saddam Hussain ?? Hezbollah ?? who runs Indonesia or Turkey ??

You need to do some more research on Indonesia, Turkey and other countries.

Is it coincident that people are killed, live in fear, blame everything to West and Israel, 99% terrorist comes from these countries ?? 2 or 3 countries can be wrong but not 50 countries sir

Entire middle east is similar to size of India. 50 small countries is irrelevent. I just gave you list of muslim countries that dont give death penalty for blasphemy.

saudi wahabis run the lot.

and yes the west is to blame...in there greed for oil they uprooted secular regeimes and deomocracy and aided extremist right wing dictators and mullahs so they wont join ussr and not to mention redrawing of maps. they are not fully to blame but they do share half of the blame.

 

[Ray]

I know the reasons.

Point is that it is not Indian tradition and that tradition and culture chest thumpers should speak out against them also rather than celebrating it themselves.

It would bring us back to that thought process, held by many, where they will say Indian culture is solely those of the Vedic days and all that and everything else that came afterwards was merely the imagination of the chest thumpers!

 

[The Messiah]

No, you point originally was



You were implying that "islamic" stuff is rejected due to hatred etc etc. The real reason is that, islamic stuff is not even marketed (for whatever reasons)

EDIT: didn't see the post by Ray sir.

I am talking about people who parrot the line the tradition and culture and that all outside traditions should not be accepted. So i said they are happy to celebrate christmas and valentines but not muslim ones. these people dont actually care about tradition and culture but use it as an excuse to bash muslims.

Personally i dont care who celebrates what. My point is only aimed at those lot who say outside traditions should not be followed...only pointing how hypocrisy of them.