Eurofighter vs Rafale

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Archer

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Mind you i am a rafale fan. Was just gently pointing out to armand that the MKI is no slouch either. Both aircrfat have specific attributes and pluses which a well trained crew can succeed with.
 
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Immanuel

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Rafale is hardly even in the MKI standard, currently its some where below the block 60 which UAE is slated to order more now. Its positive attributes are agility, acceleration, range and good payload. However for all the positive attributes UAE sees no added value of buying the Rafale compared to the block 60, The block 60 can pretty much out do the Rafale in many areas. EF all the way.
 

death.by.chocolate

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MKI Bars has SAR as well, already. That does not compare to a SAR pod which offers greater look angle, and more range, besides being customized for the role. The radar data can be datalinked for real time analysis to a receiving station as well. Better resolution as well.
Sorry I misinterpreted your post I thought you were talking about radar modes. A SAR pod is preferred for reconnaissance missions and yes the Rafale does not currently have this capability.

Thanks. This is useful and at least one equal ability amongst the specific queries. This is a plus for the Rafale. It can apparently do buddy refuelling without a pod, am I right? If so, this is good stuff.
The Rafale needs a refueling pod, an F/A-18 E/F can be reconfigured for refueling mission in under 30 minutes. I suspect the same is true for the Rafale.

Dont get you here. You mean to say the MICA IR does not have to rely on inert gases like nitrogen & can indefinitely cool itself?

Please confirm.


Even so - I'd not think that relying on missiles for the primary IRST function is cost effective. They are weapons, with limited on carriage time. Using them for a non primary role, just uses up their valuable airframe hours and for the usual air to air missile, airframe carriage is usually in the few tens of hours before it has to be sent back to depot for a refurbish. Time consuming and expensive and only possible a few times at best

It does rely on inert gas, but the gas is self contained in a permanent vacuum dewar assembly it only requires power for the cryoengine to function. As for using up airframe hours I'm not sure I understand your concern, the AIM-9X for instance can be used, recovered and then stored in specially designed CNU-609/E AUR container for a up to seven years, routine maintenance and inspection is of course necessary. For the purpose of this discussion, I don't see the MICA-IR offering the range of capabilities that a dedicated sensor like PIRATE offers. I'd be interested to know if MICA IR is slaved to RBE-2 / Spectra and I'm also curious to learn how the aircrafts mission computer handles own ship orientation when both wing tips are occupied by a MICA-IR.
 

Archer

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The Rafale needs a refueling pod, an F/A-18 E/F can be reconfigured for refueling mission in under 30 minutes. I suspect the same is true for the Rafale.
thanks

It does rely on inert gas, but the gas is self contained in a permanent vacuum dewar assembly it only requires power for the cryoengine to function. As for using up airframe hours I'm not sure I understand your concern, the AIM-9X for instance can be used, recovered and then stored in specially designed CNU-609/E AUR container for a up to seven years, routine maintenance and inspection is of course necessary. For the purpose of this discussion, I don't see the MICA-IR offering the range of capabilities that a dedicated sensor like PIRATE offers. I'd be interested to know if MICA IR is slaved to RBE-2 / Spectra and I'm also curious to learn how the aircrafts mission computer handles own ship orientation when both wing tips are occupied by a MICA-IR.
ok, to get you correctly, the gas does not need to be refilled? since the assembly is sealed, it does not need to be recharged.

also, when coming to aiframe hours what i mean is that any missile has x amount of airframe hours available. while at wartime, you can use the onboard missiles for a secondary ir mission, what happens when they are launched. also, each flight will consume so many carriage hours. the rvv-ae for instance has a checkup every 10 hours of flight, or 10 take off landing cycles on concrete strips (reduces to a third on other strips) with a TTL of 50 hours before it needs to be refurbished. so my point is this talk of relying on micas for an irst by armandrep, is just making the best of a rather bad situation wherein rafale has no irst
 

death.by.chocolate

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ok, to get you correctly, the gas does not need to be refilled? since the assembly is sealed, it does not need to be recharged.
Correct.

also, when coming to aiframe hours what i mean is that any missile has x amount of airframe hours available. while at wartime, you can use the onboard missiles for a secondary ir mission, what happens when they are launched. also, each flight will consume so many carriage hours. the rvv-ae for instance has a checkup every 10 hours of flight, or 10 take off landing cycles on concrete strips (reduces to a third on other strips) with a TTL of 50 hours before it needs to be refurbished. so my point is this talk of relying on micas for an irst by armandrep, is just making the best of a rather bad situation wherein rafale has no irst
I don't know about the MICA-IR, I do know it costs an arm and a leg and I hope for India's sake it lasts forever:becky:.

The AIM-9X has a 2000 hour operational use warranty and 10 year in storage warranty, depot level maintenance is handled by Raytheon for USN/USAF.
 

Archer

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"The AIM-9X has a 2000 hour operational use warranty and 10 year in storage warranty, depot level maintenance is handled by Raytheon for USN/USAF. "

wow, 2000 hours of carriage? that is just amazing
 

Immanuel

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Well Aim missiles are very reliable during their operational life and have long carriage hours. I hope we order aim-9x block 2 or python-5 for the mrca, not only are they much cheaper than missiles like mica and asraam, they are just as cutting edge.
 

pack leader

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Well Aim missiles are very reliable during their operational life and have long carriage hours. I hope we order aim-9x block 2 or python-5 for the mrca, not only are they much cheaper than missiles like mica and asraam, they are just as cutting edge.
India already has python 5 for spyder , lca, mig 29 (all new and upgraded variants)
 

WE HAVE SU 30MKI

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Hello, brothers, countrymen, Indians
Namaste;
I ma just a beginner so aeronautical gurus please don't grill me!!!
Just had a opinion please correct me if I am wrong"¦
From what I read I can say that EF is an excellent combat Jet in air to air combat but not a great ground attack AC compares to Rafale and on the other hand Rafale is an unmatched ground attacker but not a good combat AC when compared to EF both are the most desirable contenders in MMRCA.
Now thing is in case of combat AC we already have a world class AC in form of SU30MKI which will be coming in for next few years and also would be upgraded on the other hand we lack a good ground attacking aircraft SpaceCats and MIGs are ageing.
So if EF is not much offering in case of our need (i.e. ground attack) would it be nice to go with Rafale (if EF is not offering much benefit over SU 30MKI)
Please guide me"¦.
 

ace009

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Hello, brothers, countrymen, Indians
Namaste;
I ma just a beginner so aeronautical gurus please don't grill me!!!
Just had a opinion please correct me if I am wrong"¦
From what I read I can say that EF is an excellent combat Jet in air to air combat but not a great ground attack AC compares to Rafale and on the other hand Rafale is an unmatched ground attacker but not a good combat AC when compared to EF both are the most desirable contenders in MMRCA.
Now thing is in case of combat AC we already have a world class AC in form of SU30MKI which will be coming in for next few years and also would be upgraded on the other hand we lack a good ground attacking aircraft SpaceCats and MIGs are ageing.
So if EF is not much offering in case of our need (i.e. ground attack) would it be nice to go with Rafale (if EF is not offering much benefit over SU 30MKI)
Please guide me"¦.
My advice is, please read this thread from the beginning and you will have answer to this question from many angles.

In a nutshell ...

Rafale supporters claim that - IAF needs a good A2G aircraft and Rafale is better than EF in that, as well as being pretty good in A2A role. Also Rafale is made by Dassault who already supply Mirages to India and the two aircraft much in common, making it easier for IAF to incorporate the Rafale.

EF supporters claim that EF is an excellent A2A fighter and is being modified for A2G roles. Also, it is easier for a "fighter to be converted to a bomber, but not for a bomber to be converted to a fighter". In addition, EF will bring new strategic allies to India including military-industrial giants like Germany, UK and Italy.
 

rahulrds1

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Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA deal beating Eurofighter Typhoon


NEW DELHI: French company Dassault Rafale today bagged India's biggest-ever contract for supplying 126 combat aircraft for the air force, edging out European competitor EADS in the multi-billion dollar deal.

The French firm was declared as the lowest bidder, according to which it will get the contract under India's defence procurement procedure, sources said.

"The French firm Dassault Rafale has emerged as the L-1 (lowest bidder) and cheaper than its european rival EADS (maker of Eurofighter) in the tender and will be offered to supply the aircraft to the IAF," the source said.

They said the representatives of Dassault here were informed about the development in the morning and further negotiations on price will be held with them in the next 10-15 days.

The contract will be signed only in the next fiscal. According to the Request for Proposal (RFP), the winner of the contract will have to supply 18 of the 126 aircraft to the IAF in 36 months from its facilities and the remaining would be produced at HAL facilities in Bangalore.

Six companies including American F-16 and F-18, Russian MiG 35, Swedish Saab Gripen alongwith Eurofighter and Dassault Rafale were in the race in the beginning.

But in April last year, the defence ministry shortlisted Dassault and EADS, evicting the American, Russian and Swedish bids.

The process was started with the issuing of a global tender in 2007 after which all the six contenders were subjected to extensive field evaluation trails by the Indian Air Force at several locations across the globe.
 
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Armand2REP

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This is pretty much the death-knell for EF Typhoon? Tranche 3B remains unfunded and no export orders, they were beat in Japan which they needed badly. The F-35 is so costly that budgets will have to be diverted from any future Typhoon buys of partner nations. Saudis aren't going to buy anymore with the huge F-15 deal they just signed.
 

ace009

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I guess Mods should close this thread too ...

When's the Party Armand? Champagne?
 
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