Eurofighter vs Rafale

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Srinivas_K

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I think India should choose a good air superiority fighter rather than a multi role fighter since mmrca is all about countering china and achieving technological edge over it.
India must be in a position to defend in the north east front rather than deep strike attacks. For achieving deep strikes in the enemy territory we already have Su_30MKI which can do the job.
 

Parthy

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Typhoon is the best choice here. Because:

2) Typhoon means stronger strategic ties with 4 European states.
What kind of ties and strategic benefit we can expect from them? UK & Germany is fine.. Do you think Italy & Spain will align with us that easily? Italy was against us in UNSC.

3) Typhoon means we maintain undisputed air superiority in mainland Asia for at least next 20 years on a medium level alongside Tejas MK1 and MK2, Su-30MKI, PAKFA and AMCA.
But it is yet to prove its Ground attack completely... Its just into early stages... We do already have a air superiority fighter Su30.. As per cold doctrine, we need a fighter which can hit critical ground assets to gain strategic gain..


6) A victory of EFT means EJ-200 becomes Mk-2 Tejas's prime engine; As we can see that Snecma has started over-pricing us for the Dhruv engines.
If am correct EJ-200 lost the race to GE-F414 for powering Tejas MK II..

7) This could mean a changed perspective on the state of J&K that Europeans have maintained as a "disputed" zone. Strategic package.
Do you think they'll change their posture just because providing a business??


The only issue here is that per aircraft, Typhoon is killer expensive. But we could bring that cost down if we manufacture them in India itself via HAL.
Still it is going to take more than $10B..
 

DrunkenMaster

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You do know that ausair is highly biased and pro US fighters? Actually ausairpower takes the Typhoon config from a fifteen! years old source (DERA study) and competes it with recently made developments and improvements on its "enemys" without any remark of recent improvements on the Typhoon. And apparently they are keen on proving that the Typhoon is not as stealthy as the F-35 and F-22... well, no one ever has claimed that the Typhoon is a stealthfigher, the only claim made is that the Typhoon incorporates RAM and has - by design - a reduced RCS compared to the "teen" fighters. The rest of this article is mainly based on unproven sources and some fairy-tales of an F-18 pilot.
 

Andy

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Hello,
I am Andy , a new member .
Rafale is batter aircraft. But any chance-can IAF make them much more better or the best ones ?
Like Su MKI . Su 30 is good but IAF make them better .

The Rafale radar got bit issue of low range, 100 kms . Needs AWACS . Not like mini AWACS in built with the aircraft and long radar range .
 
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Armand2REP

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Typhoon is the best choice here. Because:

1) Typhoon Tranche 3 will be out soon and that will be a true multirole fighters as Bernhard Gerwert said in his interview.
Well, Tranche 3A is the same as Tranche 2 so no biggy there. Tranche 3B is the one that comes with all the goodies like AESA, advanced missiles and it is still stuck in limbo.


Budget pressures halt Eurofighter Tranche 3B talks, says Cassidian boss


"There is nothing on the agenda this year or next year," Zoller said during a financial presentation at Cassidian's Unterschleissheim headquarters near Munich on 28 March. "Our governments have no money," he added. "We have to see whether we can shift those discussions and firm commitments to a later date."

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ofighter-tranche-3b-talks-says-cassidian.html
2) Typhoon means stronger strategic ties with 4 European states.
What kind of strategic ties do you expect to get from those 4 European states? Except for the UK, the rest are a bunch of disarmed peace doves. The UK is a disarmed hawk who doesn't realise her new role in the world.

3) Typhoon means we maintain undisputed air superiority in mainland Asia for at least next 20 years on a medium level alongside Tejas MK1 and MK2, Su-30MKI, PAKFA and AMCA.
Typhoon may bring you air superiority over PAF and PLAAF, but it isn't better than Rafale with 9:1 wins over Typhoon.





4) An opening to more outsourcing from EADS in military department.
You know the outsourcing was cut from 50% to 30%? Biggest problem with offsets are, they do not have to be military. They can write them off with commercial offsets and EADS getting most of its business from the commercial sector will give you mostly commercial offsets. Set up a support and call centre for Airbus would just about fill that requirement.

5) Germany is the keyword here. A chance to develop stronger ties and interoperability with German tri-services; the only NATO significant country with whom we haven't had any serious war drills.
What are you going to train with? Germany is disarming so fast, they will be less than Spain in a few years. They really aren't interested in more alliances, they don't like being in the one they got.

6) A victory of EFT means EJ-200 becomes Mk-2 Tejas's prime engine; As we can see that Snecma has started over-pricing us for the Dhruv engines.
EJ-200 lost to P&W, they are out of LCA. Mk-2 will be using Snecma engine cores. Snecma don't even make helicopter engines... that is Turbomeca. The price of Shakti hasn't changed. The price of redesigning Shakti to fit a single engine LuH requires a completely new transmission with a new price. India don't like it so they can either pay or find a new engine. Their loss if they don't want a standard engine across all helicopters.

7) This could mean a changed perspective on the state of J&K that Europeans have maintained as a "disputed" zone. Strategic package.
Um... yeah. Unlike a deal with a single country like France on the P5, there is only one country on the P5 in that consortium being UK. UK has to split its shares four ways with four countries so the economic leverage with them isn't nearly as great as it is with France who has all her eggs in one basket... India. Europeans don't even care about Kashmir except for the instability it causes in South Asia. MMRCA won't change their position being a neutral one.

8) NO Strategic or technical strings attached compared to the ones that we're seeing that US provides with its products whether free of charge or bought.
You get the same from Rafale... difference being, you have to deal with four countries who rarely agree with each other as opposed to one.

The only issue here is that per aircraft, Typhoon is killer expensive. But we could bring that cost down if we manufacture them in India itself via HAL.
And you would bring down the cost of Rafale made by HAL. Either way, Rafale is far cheaper to buy, maintain and operate. It has fully developed capabilities which have already been funded. EF consortium don't want to pay for a 2016 upgrade that is still in limbo... IAF can't wait that long.
 

DrunkenMaster

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Sorry but the claimed "9:1" win over Typhoon is bull****. There is NO reliable source on that apart from sketchy reports of french Rafale pilots - and I doubt that these reports are more than marketing for the Rafale. Btw your hud-"screenshots" only show us a dogfight between Rafales... especially screen one, thats definitely a Rafale-silhouette.
 

Armand2REP

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Sorry but the claimed "9:1" win over Typhoon is bull****. There is NO reliable source on that apart from sketchy reports of french Rafale pilots - and I doubt that these reports are more than marketing for the Rafale. Btw your hud-"screenshots" only show us a dogfight between Rafales...
There are interviews with French pilots and there is Air & Cosmos confirming it.

http://russiadefence.englishboard.net/t930-interview-with-a-rafale-pilot

This is a Rafale?



especially screen one, thats definitely a Rafale-silhouette.
Is it? It is definitely a Gripen.
 

DrunkenMaster

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Gripen? fail...

First these pictures look like they are faked, secondly these hud pictures are not necessarily taken from a Rafale and thirdly I have heard in recent comparisons the Eurofighter scored 12:1 over the Rafale... now beat this. And lastly a fact about the RBE2 AESA of the Rafale: it has poor performance and is utterly delayed.
 

Armand2REP

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Yawn... I got double sources fou. You got nothing.
 

StealthSniper

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I think we should all look at what the capability of the fighters are first because our pilots in India deserve the best and then we should look at the political aspect that each fighter might bring to India. To me the Rafale is a good all around fighter, but I don't think it's powerful enough and I have doubts about how capable the AESA radar is compared to the Eurofighter and F-18 that got disqualified. I will need to research more to come up with my own conclusion.
 

DrunkenMaster

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@Armand:

Yawn... show me your "sources" then. You don't have ANY valid sources! Nothing! Every single bit you posted before was only french propaganda rubbish. "There are interviews with French pilots and there is Air & Cosmos confirming it." <- WTF?! These are your double sources?! Air & Cosmos and frenchy fairy-tales?! Thats just pure self-affirmation and propaganda, ridiculous haha... this "discussion" here is all the same like every single uber biased "rafale vs. typhoon" battle on the net. Congratulations to you Armand!

@Stealth:

In my opinion both planes have pros and cons and need much more development done to stay competitive.
 
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gogbot

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Looking at them just as planes , the Rafael is the perfect choice hands down , it is multi-role.
As opposed to the Air Superiority oriented EF , which we already have MKI for.

But considering the nature of the Euro-fighter Consortium , and how divided it is.
We might have more control over the fighter and the Program itself. And there are less chances of India being forced to bear additional costs.
That is of course if their promise of Partnership rings true.

But that is still something worth looking into. More control or leverage over the supplier is very preferable , probably more so than ToT.
 

DrunkenMaster

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For the multirole part you have the MKI, it is a designated multirole fighter. And the Rafale is not the superior ground attacker, the Typhoon also has a targeting pod (Litening III) and an equal versatile a/g payload as the Rafale.
 

ajay_ijn

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finally, finally finally. I was readin live fist, when i read the headlines of MMRCA shortlist, i just got butterflies in my stomach, almost tense like in during exam results. i was posting about MMRCA like since 2005-06. It was one of the most discussed issues in defence forums. soo much of internet ink has been spent on this. overall i think IAF went with decision that would surprise no one, most neutral options was selected.

as many said before, selecting European fighter would give us access to latest to western weaponry without the sanction risk. Meteor would be game changer for BVR Combat for IAF.
 

Armand2REP

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For the multirole part you have the MKI, it is a designated multirole fighter. And the Rafale is not the superior ground attacker, the Typhoon also has a targeting pod (Litening III) and an equal versatile a/g payload as the Rafale.
Sure man... Eurofighter with its obsolete LITENING pod and Paveways are a better bomber than Rafale. :pound:

 
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