EU-Russia Security Panel Could Marginalize USA

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by sanjay, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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    A new panel being set up by Germany and Russia could see the US marginalized from European security decision-making:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  3. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Shades of Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. After the WW2 guilt fades, two of Europe's traditional bullies are back at their old desctructive alliance...
     
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  4. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    lamest comment get over your obsession they are deserve their status in Europe Germany has the best economy in Eurozone and Russia due to its energy,military clout has all the say on the old continent.Besides why is it always USA that must be viewed as the force of "good"
     
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  5. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Maybe you're forgetting, the temporary alliance between the USSR (now Russia) and Germany precepitated WW2. USSR's assurance that it will not oppose it (in fact that they will join it) pursuaded Germany to invade Poland, the Soviets on the other side. The rest they say is history.

    You want to change the narrative?
     
  6. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    One day I read about US having missile shield to protect EU from Russia. The other day its like EU-Russia looking to marginalise US.
    News are very deceving now. Not everyone goes into the details. Over time, the consant misinformation absorbed via false headlines indeed manipulates even an educated person's point of view about many issues.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  7. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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    Whose narrative?

    WW2 Germany was the result of the Versailles Treaty, and the blame for that goes to Woodrow Wilson.
    That guy was a crook - he was an Atlanticist.

    Stalin likewise came to power due to machinations of Western Europeans.

    Of course the Germans and Russians have the right to voluntarily associate together.
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Germany is playing a dangerous game one which threatens the future of NATO. Europe is already in dire straits economically Germans and French are the only ones sustaining and with Germans making a move like this at a time like this is a huge negative.
     
  9. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    @ sanjay

    What history books did you read during grade school, those supplied by North Korea or Iran? The harsh terms (against Germany) of the Varsailles Treaty was the direct result of Clemenceau's (France) lobbying. The French at the end of WW1 were adamant that Germany must be completely devoid of facilities to wage war again. The Americans on the other hand initially favored a more practical approach to Germany. Wilson outlined his 14 Points which included the creation of League of Nations. The French and other Europeans however got the upper hand and very harsh terms were imposed against Germany.

    The biggest mistake of the US was committed later on when the US Congress blocked the US' entry into the League of Nations (most Americans then were isolationists).

    The rest is history.
     
  10. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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    France may have lobbied for harsh terms on Versailles, but the fact is that Wilson's intervention in WW1 allowed for that lopsided trial by the victors. Wilson was basically a puppet for foreign interests, putting them ahead of his own country's, just like the Sonia cabale in India.
     
  11. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    French are not doing anything the Germans are the real economic powerhouse of the eurozone and if they want they can leave the Euro and return to the Deutsche Mark because their currency exchange rate was higher than Euro whereas France,Greece,Portugal,Spain if they leave the Euro and return to their original currencies their debt servicing would spiral out of control due to weak currency.

    The realities of 2011 and 1945 are far different so please do not make assumptions,Germans are doing better than most of its EU counterparts if it can strengthen its position why should it not choose to do so?

    Why isn't it time to change this storyline
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  12. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well this is more of a German-Russian panel rather than a EU one. But given the fact that Germany is phasing out nuclear power and Russia is the main provider of energy, this co-operation will only increase. There is no expansionist USSR that was the basis of NATO and the German-US alliance against Russians.

    Remember there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent interests.
     
  13. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yeah, right.
     
  14. AOE

    AOE Regular Member

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    I'm certainly no major fan of Woodrow Wilson, but he did not tilt the terms of the Treaty of Versailles in favor of the French, or encourage them to place harsh terms on the Germans. Wilsons advent into WWI was to bring about an armistice and peace, which he achieved; blame Britain and France for the reparations and punishment that was dished to the Germans.
     
  15. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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    It's not that Wilson tilted the Versailles negotiations against the Germans - it's that Wilson's military intervention made possible a lopsided victory that enabled that lopsided treaty. Why do you think the French were all fawning with praise over the US? And look at how Wilson passed strict laws at home to lock up political opponents for criticizing his adventurist policies. Also, look at how Wilson fundamentally damaged the checks and balances of the US Constitution by creating the US FEDERAL RESERVE to finance his war-mongering abroad.

    It's like he drilled a porthole in the side of the American ship of state, to poke a canon out of, for war-fighting purposes -- and then meanwhile water seeps back through that porthole over time, to ultimately sink that same American ship of state in the long run. That's what the creation of the US Federal Reserve has accomplished -- the long-term destruction of the US economy. Wilson and the Atlanticist lobby bear much of the blame for that.
     
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  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Why should Germany continue to support the Euro and be punished for bad economies elsewhere?? Why should German and French contribution in NATO be even higher then UK or Italy?? The combination of A Euro collapse along with these long drawn out wars are a test for NATO even this may no be the catalyst a spoiler like Turkey getting closer to Islamic nations and Russia and China may even do it.
     
  17. pack leader

    pack leader Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    victory is by definition lop sided someone has to win someone has to lose
    the is no middle ground in war (especially world war )
     
  18. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    Europe is totally dependent on US for its security against Russia

    So NATO will remain relevant .All that this new Panel would do is some counter terrorism and fighting criminals

    Of course Russia will keep on emphasising that Cold war is over SO what is the use of Nato

    But Europe is NOT going to forget the 40 years of the fear that Europe lived in during the Cold war
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    NATO is relevant only because US finances more than 75% of the costs.
     
  20. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    The EVIL China is looking for BASES JUST like USA

    NATO has become MORE important today

    If Turkey, Saudi arabia , Iran and China ALL come together and IF and when China sees NATO getting splintered then China will try to have military bases in North Africa and Turkey

    Chinese ambitions are huge and If NATO is splintered then China will move in the Mediterranean Sea
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  21. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    I don't know but somehow it was always the French who were cozy with Russians except for the WW2 time. This seems to be a pretty heavy move considering that this is a NATO country that is trying to experiment with West-East ties. Germany is not what it was under Hitler. I wonder whether US can prove costly for Germans for taking this decision or not. Germans are self-sufficient in defense, in fact to the extent that they are even now restrained from obtaining nuclear weapons and strategic assets (they're the creators of most modern weapon systems).

    US has been good to most NATO countries and I am wondering why is it that Germans are taking this move.
     

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