EU could end China arms embargo early 2011

Discussion in 'China' started by LETHALFORCE, Jan 1, 2011.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.spacewar.com/reports/EU_could_end_China_arms_embargo_early_2011_report_999.html

    A European Union arms embargo clamped on China in 1989 following the Tiananmen crackdown could be lifted in early 2011, Brussels sources told Thursday's edition of France's Le Figaro daily.

    The lifting of the embargo on all lethal weapons "could happen very quickly," a source close to EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton told the paper.

    An EU diplomat in Brussels refused to confirm the claim, but acknowledged that Ashton recommended as much in a report presented at a December 16-17 summit to the bloc's 27 national leaders.

    Ashton's report described the embargo as "a major impediment" to Europe-China security and foreign policy cooperation.

    "The EU should assess its practical implication and design a way forward," it concluded.

    Lifting the embargo would nevertheless require unanimity across EU member states.

    Spain recently tried to persuade opponents to lift the embargo, and the issue can be expected to come up again in mid-January when EU foreign ministers' hold informal talks in Hungary.

    "We will look into this," said the diplomat.

    The issue has re-emerged following talks between China and the EU in Beijing focused on economic and trade cooperation, at which China indicated it would support heavily indebted eurozone economies struggling to raise finance on open markets at affordable interest rates.

    An EU official insisted there was "nothing of an exchange or negotiation whatsoever" involving the arms embargo, stressing that there "nothing given in exchange for that support."

    Chinese ambassasor Song Zhe recently said "it doesn't make any sense to maintain the embargo," arguing that "we will develop our own arms even faster" and claiming that arms companies in Europe "are losing out."

    Europe was divided on the issue when it was discussed at a meeting of foreign ministers in September, with some mooting the idea of a conditional lifting of the embargo.

    Conditions included improved ties with Taiwan, an amnesty for arrests linked to the Tiananmen crackdown, and a calendar for the ratification of the convention on civil and political rights.

    The Figaro said that the Netherlands, Britain and, to a lesser extent, Germany, had each lowered their opposition to lifting the embargo.

    But another diplomatic source said Britain in particular remained set against alongside the US and Japan.

    Chinese troops and tanks ended weeks of pro-democracy protests in Beijing central Tiananmen Square on June 4, 1989, killing hundreds if not thousands of demonstators.
     
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  3. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    Worst Nightmare that could come true, don't know what will be the far-fetched implications of this lifting of embargo from this crazy dragon!!!!
     
  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Not gud..

    ............................
     
  5. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    This move will have severe implications for countries neighbouring China. It will improve pace of modernization for Chinese forces and they will have access to better technologies. Though chinese are doing good with their own defence r&d but they haven't mastered everything and lifting of embargo will give them access to those technologies. It also shows double face of Europeans that money is everything for them. Also it will force Russians to sell more equipments to them as they know that now China have access to better technologies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Europe is going bankrupt China has cash this was bound to happen, but does China care at this point?? Russian tech is still a generation behind Europe in many things.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  7. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    Why not, China will try everything from Europeans acting puppets at the hands of Uncle Sam and so will play games with the US via EU!!!

    This nothing but Gunning US from the shoulders of EU, win-win for the Dragon!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  8. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Thats a question but if access to certain technologies gives them edge over neighbours I think Chinese will be ready to dole out some cash for EU.But as soon as Chinese have access to those technologies they will beat Europeans by mass producing it. its a double edge sword for Europeans IMHO .
     
  9. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    I am waiting for reaction from USA about this move by EU . Its not at all a good news for USA and allies in Asia . I dont think USA will let it happen so easily. Lets wait and watch .
     
  10. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Guess they don't have many options


    Either face this:
    [​IMG]

    Or get this:
    [​IMG]

    As for US, he is quite busy recently
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  11. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Kickok technically that trillion dollar reserve doesn't mean that china own USA economy . Recession is almost over for USA and its known fact that USA economy is based on investment from other countries. They just borrow money for business If its not china then some other country .
     
  12. JustForLaughs

    JustForLaughs Regular Member

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    AHAHAHA, they decide this after China test their 5th generation fighter? and China's work on carrier killer?

    "Chinese ambassasor Song Zhe recently said "it doesn't make any sense to maintain the embargo," arguing that "we will develop our own arms even faster" "


    i disagree. that is exactly why embargo is good. please maintain it.
     
  13. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Amen . May God listen to your pray .
     
  14. kickok1975

    kickok1975 Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I know, when US own China 100 billion dollar, its US problem, but now a trillion dollar, it's China's problem. Europe is in crisis. But US didn’t offer a helpful hand. Instead several European countries were downgraded by US firm recently and it’s getting more expensive for them to borrow money. US hedge fund is also heavily betting on collapse of Euros. 70% of China’s reserve of 2.6 trillion dollars is setting on US bond and treasures. It’s in China’s interest to diversify it. Also it’s huge and attractive for all cash hungry countries in the world.

    China traditionally has fewer problems with European countries. China’s military modernization poses less threat to Europe than US, Japan, or maybe India as per you guys said. EU can continue embargo China but it doesn't do them anything good. China’s indigenous industry is developing fast and Europe’s military industry need money to support. UK just scrapped their air craft carrier project to tight their belt.

    However, it’s a dilemma Europe has to face. While they really want to sell China weapons, their countries are increasingly rely on US military influence and protection. While they really want to build a strong Union to counter balance the world, some of their members are getting lazy, fat and live on unsustainable living standards, which jeopardize the whole union. It’s a sad thing for EU now. As time goes on, it appears more obvious that lifting arm embargo is less attractive. By then the only loser left will be European countries.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  15. Kinshuk

    Kinshuk Regular Member

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    I bet my whole life, Before something like this happens, USA will declare war with China for no legitimate reason!!!! BTW I want citizenship of moon now!! anybody interested?
     
  16. DMF

    DMF Regular Member

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    Yes, it’s not a good new for India to end this China arms embargo, for example, 10years ago, China wanted to buy some AEW plane from Israel, but the USA told Israel to cancel the deal, the airplane were landed in India eventually, so we can say this embargo is a blessing to India, but China have to make one by herself, and they did it, the problem is now China are making one such airplane for the Pakis, this embargo maybe also a blessing for China because it force China to make things by herself, if the embargo really lifted, China will buy, not make, maybe in many fields China will always behind the Europe.
    After another 5years, China will get a technology stride even with the embargo. The EU knows that if not sell now, the chance to sell will lost
     
  17. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    This if really deemed necessary will cause a split in NATO or even its dissolution. But you never know US. They often deceive others on the very things other are so sure of. If this happens, we will have to give control of DRDO labs to private majors directly without any paperwork to meet that kind of speedy work to assimilate new tech that we buy. Because with the embargo itself Chinese modernization is so rapid; it will reach dizzying speeds if it has access to European weapons.
     
  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    If someone owes you money does it make you a rich man??? Chinese own debt which does not look like USA will ever payback but may try to solve by war?? China has very little means to collect this debt and keeps accumulating more.
     
  19. death.by.chocolate

    death.by.chocolate Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    China is a US Bond junkie, it will continue to buy US debt. 70% of China's assets are dollar-denominated.

    Devaluation of the US dollar will hurt China by depreciating the value of its US bonds and the assets it holds, not to mention the impact it will have on its own exports.And when you consider that 57% of US debt is privately held it is unimaginable the amount of damage China will cause to itself and the global economy by dumping US bonds.

    As for the Europeans selling military technology to China, this effort is being spearheaded by the French.With the short term objective of making some money for its ailing defense industries. It may prove counter productive in the long run, once China has absorbed European knowhow What prevents China from consuming European market share with its own arms the same arms the Europeans helped improve? Unless, the Europeans expect to sell complete solutions with no ToT or licensed production - I doubt China is interested in complete solutions.
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The arms embargo is not for any reason except that Chinese are very good at replicating and also improving.

    They are afraid that if the Chinese gets hold of their equipment, then their third world market may vanish with the Chinese giving a better bargain.

    Of course, the EU has to cloak it with some excuse!

    Even the Russians are very chary about giving their latest, because the Chinese will not only copy their technology, but better it!!

    On the other issue, China may have built an inroad in the US economy, but then the US Bonds they hold, if it sinks, then China sinks too!
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  21. icecoolben

    icecoolben Regular Member

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    Though I myself had speculated that any leverage an Euro bird could give us in MMRCA, would be offset by chinese potential to absorb Europeon weapons and technology, I woluld not get worked up too much at this stage.

    After all this may be a desperate time, but certainly not the first time Europe headed by France had sought to lift the arms embargo. The previous time the initiative was pushed, at the eleventh hour entire europe was strong armed by USA into extending the ban. Though the first 6 nations France, GB, Germany, spain, italy and sweden account for 80% military production and 98% research in miliary technology, a resolution in Europe is essentially evolved by consensus, thus giving USA a strong leverage vis-a-vis the pro-lift ban countries. Consider why the litte guys in EU are jokeying behind wahington for F-35, they need American protection from their own western big brothers on several diverse issues.

    Still remember NATO accounts for 2/3 of the world's conventional forces, which gives Europe the military edge over any rival faction across the world. Essentially during the cold war, Europe was completely under American security umbrella. The nations of eastern europe still rely on american umbrella military to face Russian hegemony. In one of such reports, I found that USA had threatened the existance of the trans-atlantic itself on the ban. If not for USA, Europe would still be a fracturous polity like the end of WW1. EU's inherent stability of both economics and military power is provided by USA. Euope by itself is no military power, it entirety depends on NATO whose weight upto 3/4 is made up by american might.

    Conclusion: It ain't over till the fat lady sings, it won't pass over till washington approves. India and Japan have no weight regading the issue with EU.
    I'm willing to wait till Obama makes a comment.

    This is not the first time the issue cropped up, may be the economics change, but its still relevent.

    The first time in 2003,

    http://www.crosswalk.com/1312255/


    The result in 2004
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3637807.stm
     

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