Esoteric talk on Gog-Magog, Russia, Syria, and Israel

Discussion in 'Members Corner' started by pmaitra, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Esoteric talk on Gog-Magog, Russia, Syria, and Israel

    After coming across a lot of material on speculation of the current events in Syria having been predicted in the Bible (yes, I am talking about the Bible, not the New Testament), I have seen two competing schools of thought.

    One of them claims that Russia will destroy Israel because Russia is Gog and Magog. Technically, Gog is an person from the land called Magog.

    [​IMG]
    Source: The Gog and Magog War


    There are persons who have countered this. Two such videos are presented herein. The interpretation here is, it is not Russia that will invade Israel, but Turkey, along with Iran, Libya, and Sudan.

    Essentially, Gog, from the land called Magog, is prophesied to invade Jerusalem. We have two competing views, about who the invader is:

    • Gog is Russia (GiR Theory)
    • Gog is Turkey (GiT Theory)


    backpressure123 1 week ago

    Magog one of the sons of Japheth became the ancestor of Scythians. Scythians were Iranic nomads that lived above Caucasus in present day Russia. They have more in common with Slavs (Russia's main ethnicity) than they do with Turks. Scythians were Y-haplogroup (paternal gene that passes from dad to son) R1a people. Y-haplo R is Aryan Indo-European marker that is most dominant in both Europe and Northern India today. Slavs are also mainly R1a. We can thus say that the two people, Scythians and Slavs are brothers that came from the same ancestor. Some Scythians could be ancestors of some Slavs.

    Mongols and Huns are not identical people. The Xiongnu Huns above China were Turkic. They were the original Turks. Xiongnu were originally Y-haplo N (Native Siberian / Finno-Ugric - closest brother group of N is O which makes up majority of east Asians such as Chinese and Korean. N and O come from common ancestor NO) + Q (Native American - Q's closest brother group is Indo-European R, they come from common ancestor P) + C (Mongol , Tungus) people. But they had quite a bit of R1a (Scythian) gene mixed into them as well, making them a Caucasoid - Mongoloid hybrid race. Han Chinese defeated Xiongnu, and XIongnu fled westward. When they appeared in Europe as Huns, they already absorbed many Scythians (R1a) and Sarmatians (G) into their group, thus were more Caucasoid than they originally were. The Mongols are mainly Y-haplo C people (Samoans are also C) and they are from the tribe called Dongho (meaning eastern barbarian in Chinese). Dongho and Xiongnu (Huns) were distinct tribes. The Huns controlled present day Mongolia region, and Dongho lived in eastern Mongolia/western Manchuria, but after Huns moved west, Mongols replaced them and came to occupy Mongolia region. Both Mongols and Huns speak Altaic language, but genetically they are not the same, although there are some overlaps.

    Togarmah from the line of Japheth is said to be an ancestor of Turkics and some Caucasians. However, as mentioned earlier, the Xiongnu, ancestors of Turkics have multiple origins. They are a mixture of different peoples (N+C+Q). So saying that Togarmah is the only ancestor of Turkics is problematic. Moreover, Turks of Central Asia / Siberia (the more original Turks) have very different genes from Turks of Turkey. Turks' homeland is Central Asia, but they came to Anatolia and mixed with the Natives there. Genetically, Turks of Turkey today are closer to fellow middle-easterners (J - Semitic marker) than they are to original Turks (N+C+Q), indicating that the Natives of Anatolia are still the more dominant group in Turkey in terms of numbers.

    Khazars were Turkic people from Central Asia (N + Q) that came to Caucasus and mixed with the Scythians (R1a) and Native Caucasians (e.g. Sarmatians (G), Chechens (J2), Dagestanis (J1), etc.) already settled there. Thus, they would have been a mix of various people. Ashkenaz (from the line of Japheth), a brother of Torgramah, is said to be ancestor of many Ashkenazi Jews. Chechens and Dagestanis in southern Caucasus are close brothers of Semites for they all have Y-haplo J (Semitic marker). J's closest brother group is I which is Balkan, Viking, German. They come from common ancestor IJ (many of them look similar such as having high long noses and long slender faces with high foreheads). It is possible that some Chechens and Dagestanis are descendants of the lost tribes of Israel that moved up to Caucasus or descendants of Esau (descendant of Shem) who is said to have had red hair (his name means red). Many Chechens have red hair so do Ashkenazi Jews. Many Zionist Jews are said to be Edomites (Esau's descendants). Perhaps some Edomites have moved up to Caucasus and became part of Khazars. So to summarize, biblically, Turkic Khazars are descendants of Ashkenaz (Japhethic), Magog (Japhethic), Torgamah (Japhethic), and perhaps Esau (Semitic). Genetically, they are Central Asian Turkic (N + Q) + Scythian (R1a) + Chechens / Dagestanis (J) + Sarmatians (G+F+K).

    Celts (many of whom have red hair) are Y-haplo R1b. They are brothers of Scythians (R1a) and Northwestern Indian Aryans (R1a), both coming from R. Basques of Spain are also R1b.

    There is a legend that Alexander the Great built a wall on Caucasus to keep Gog and Magog (living North of Caucasus) at bay. During Apocalypse, this wall will be breached and Gog and Magog will come down.

    Biblical origin of Mongoloid people is still being disputed whether they are Japhethic, Hamitic, or Semitic (or even from Cain). But one thing is clear, and that is they have diverse origins. The term mongoloid doesn't mean originated in Mongolia or closely related to Mongols. It simply denotes to a set of physical traits such as big cheekbones and small eyes that are best exemplified by Mongols and are shared among all east Asians. Chinese people for example, are Y-haplo O, and they are very distant from Mongols (C) genetically. However, they are both mongoloid by appearance. Therefore, whoever is the ancestor of Mongoloid people, there's gotta be more than one person. C (Mongols, Samoans) and D (Tibetans, Native Japanese Ainu - D's closest brother group is E which is North African Hamitic - Ainu are known as Asians that lack mongoloid features for they followed warm southern coastline and didn't have to adapt to cold climate as much) people came to east Asia first, but O, a newly formed group came later and dominated fertile mainlands. C and D were pushed to remote parts as a result. Most east Asians now are Y-haplo O. Mongoloid features are known to be adaptations to Ice age conditions, but there are debates as to whether it's true or not. Some people that adapted to cold climate are not mongoloid (e.g. Vikings) and other people that didn't adapt to cold climate are mongoloid (San people of South Africa, southeast Asians, etc.). So not all questions are resolved. There are some debates as to whether a big nose or small nose is better in cold climate for example. Some say small is better for it reduces surface area thus preserves heat and prevents frostbite, others say big is better for it heats up air before entering body. But one thing is for certain, and that is environment plays as big of a role in shaping peoples' looks as genetics. People that look different can have close genes, and people that look similar can have distant genes.

    There are others who say Y-haplo A people (most ancient people, that gave birth to all other people - some of their genes survive to this day without mutating into some other haplogroup) can be Caucasoid, Mongoloid, or Negroid. Therefore, these differences in looks existed from very early on, via random mutation that gave rise to different looks, but as people spread out, those with certain traits flourished more in certain regions, for their traits fitted the environment better, becoming the dominant traits of people in those regions.

    Those of you who are not against discussing the Bible, please share your views.

    Please note, this is an extra-scientific discussion, and hence, is in the Members’ Corner. I do not encourage pilferage of the discussion here in the main thread entitled “Russian involvement in Syrian crisis.”




    Possibly interested persons: @roma, @A chauhan, @rock127, @rockey 71, @Akim, @gadeshi, @Cadian, @Gabriel92, @Rashna, @blue marlin, @jouni, et al..
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
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  3. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Interesting prophecy !

    From Wiki:-
    Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and as per wikipedia it has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times, so it's tough to say if Gog and Magog war still remaining.

    Seeing the present situation Palestinians as well as Israelis consider it their capital, and Muslim countries around Israel are hostile towards it, so the Gog might be Turkey since it may help other Muslim nations to attack Israel i.e. Jerusalem, though Russians have turned atheist but still majority is Christian so it's unlikely that Russians will attack :noidea: :noidea:
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  4. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    well i did not see that comming. i personally though isreal would nuke a country and they will be nuked back . love how you said this agreed!
    yes, I am talking about the Bible, not the New Testament
     
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  5. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sir, you seriously believe what is written in the bible? I personally have literally zero belief when it comes to that text.
     
  6. Rashna

    Rashna Senior Member Senior Member

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    From some vague memory i have of pakis discussing Yajooj and Majooj this prophecy exists in the islamic world too. Because a lot of the bible finds its way in to islamic texts it isn't totally improbable. Google helps throw some light on this however i would not go so far as to imagine Russia and/or China as one/both of these mischief makers [that's what the text calls them]. The prophecy says they are from the land of ice and are disbelievers. Could be China, Russia considering they are warming up to each other. But this text i read says one of them goes to jannat. No prizes for guessing where the other one goeth. LOL
    Now this guessing game might cause some real friction btw these two non believers, when they don't believe in heaven and hell does it matter where they go? That's how contradictory these prophecies are.
    Reference:
    http://www.islamawareness.net/Yajuj/
     
  7. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah it exists in Islam too, only because the concept of Quran was copied from Bible. Bible's inspiration was so called "Jesus" and Quran was orated to Mohammed by the angel "Gabriel". Basically, Islam is Christianity but more radical and barbaric.
     
  8. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    @pmaitra, very interesting discussion. Thanks for putting up here.

    This is the first thing which came in my mind when I read the OP.

    Well it's highly unlikely that, prophecies will become reality in this age. However, we cannot rule out them altogether as well.

    Israel is under tremendous threat since its inception and they have already faced few wars in the past and they will face new war in the future.

    Seeing the current trends, if ISIS and their ilks are not contained, they will not hesitate to wage war against Israel in near future using the help of Turkey which is already backing them as of now.

    Even Nostradamus predicted this gog magog aspect!

    The Final Warning

    In his Epistle to King Henry II of France, dated June 27th of 1558, Nostradamus gave us the following prophecies which are cited here as the final warning to the world:

    " ... Of the three sects ( Lutheran, Catholic, and Mahometan ), that which is middlemost, by the actions of its worshippers, shall be thrown into ruins. The first, wholly in all Europe, and the most part of Africa undone by the third, by means of the poor in spirit, who by madness elevated shall, through libidinous luxury, commit adultery. The people will rise and maintain it, and shall drive away those that did adhere to the legislators, and it shall seem, from the kingdoms spoiled by the Eastern men, that God the Creator has loosed Satan from his infernal prison, to cause to be born the great Dog and Dohan ( Gog and Magog ), who shall make so great and abominable a breach in the Churches, that neither the reds nor the whites, who are without eyes and without arms, shall not judge of it, and their power shall be taken away from them.

    Then shall there be a greater persecution against the Church than ever was, and in the meantime shall be so great a plague, that two parts of three in the world shall fail, so much so that no one shall be able to know the true owners of fields and houses, and there shall happen a total desolation to the clergy, and martial men shall usurp what shall come from the City of the Sun, and from Malta, ...

    Their sea forces shall be weakened by the western men, and to that kingdom shall happen great desolation, and the great cities shall be depopulated, and those that shall come in shall be comprehended within the vengeance of the wrath of God. The Holy Sepulchre, held in great veneration for so long a time, shall remain a great while open to the universal aspect of the heavens, sun and moon. The sacred place shall be converted into a stable for cattle small and large, and put to profane uses. O what a calamitous time shall be then for women with child! For then the principal Eastern Ruler, being for the most part moved by the Northern and Western men, shall be vanquished and put to death, beaten, and all the rest put to flight, and the children he had by many women put in prison. Then shall be fulfilled the prophecy of the Royal Prophet ... "

    COMMENT:

    Three religious sects, Protestant, Catholic, and Muslim shall dominate the world at the time being prophesied here. The most part of Europe shall become Protestant. The northern part of Africa is dominated by Islamics. And Catholic Church by the lack of Faith of Catholics will be thrown into ruins. Due to the loss of Faith and by madness they shall lead an adulterous lifestyle laden with unmarried sex, homosexual sex, extramarital affair, contraception, abortion, etc. The so-called Christians shall rise up to take the religious matter into their own hands as they become disobedient to the Holy Pontiff, the Pope, and to disregard the Church' Law and Tradition ( Keep in mind that Nostradamus wrote this when most Europe was still Catholic. Protestantism up to now has accomplished the task that Islamic religion failed to do, which is to devastate the Catholic Faith and the Sacred Edifice or the Holy Mass. But due to the decline of the Church and desecration of the Holy Liturgy, evils in the world has reached its climax inviting the inevitable consequence, the Divine Chastisement. )

    And to punish the rebellious children, God shall loosen Satan and his evil cohorts, Gog and Magog who shall be incarnated as the leaders from Eastern countries such as China and Iran. These shall destroy all things including churches to the point of complete devastation that neither Red Russia or White NATO who are blind and lame can comprehend or foresee. And their destructive and seductive power shall be nullified by the Eastern armies.

    The great wars and persecutions shall be so vast that at the end two-thirds of the world population shall perish. The whole earth shall be so deserted that no one really know the owners of houses and fields which are totally desolated and ruined. The clergy for their parts shall be persecuted or martyred by the men of wars for their heresies and their neglect in shepherding their sheep. Paris, the City of the Sun, shall be demolished. And Malta shall become the island housing prisoners, jailing, torturing and incinerating them.

    The Muslim forces will be defeated at the end and will retreat to Middle East which shall be destroyed by the Western conquerors. Whoever witnesses the devastation of this region can only attribute it to the Wrath of God.

    The Holy Sepulchre or Vatican shall be completely ruined by Muslims. The sacred place shall become deserted, inhabitated only with birds and cattle. Iranian leader eventually shall be put to death for the crime against humanity and his associates and allies shall be put in prison.

    Then the prophecy of the Royal Prophet or the Psamist King David shall be fulfilled.

    http://ourlady3.tripod.com/last_warning.htm
     
  9. Rashna

    Rashna Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes that is why the question arises, who exactly are these non believers? According to islam anybody who doesn't accept Allah as the only god is a non believer or a Kafir. But it also accepts the Jews and Christians as people of the book and doesn't forbid inter-marriages between people of the book as long as they convert to islam. Much of these three religions comes from the same root and it is apparent that the ultimate fight will also be between the three of them. All their prophesies center around Palestine and Jerusalem, which is the topography of these religions, however the centre of power has been out of that region for the longest time ever.
    In the current age it seems like the ISIS are the predicted non believers.

     
  10. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    .... and some say, God loves you ....

     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    God also sends his plenipotentiary to chastise us and destroy those amongst us who are evil doers (see in red below):

    यदा यदा हि धर्मस्य ग्लानिर्भवति भारत ।
    अभ्युत्थानमधर्मस्य तदात्मानं सृजाम्यहम् ॥४-७॥

    परित्राणाय साधूनां विनाशाय च दुष्कृताम्
    धर्मसंस्थापनार्थाय सम्भवामि युगे युगे ॥४-८॥​
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
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  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    If you have some time to spare, please listen to this. It is an interesting commentary, but the author could have made it a little bit more concise.

    The Gog Magog War Led by Turkey or Russia
     
  13. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, as the Bible and Quran are highly contradictory among their own texts, the answer is pretty simple. Islam is the monotheistic religion that exists today. Their aim is not to stop until every single person in this world is muslim. Hence, anyone and everyone who isn't a muslim is a non-believer.
     
  14. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    I wonder, what will happen, suppose everyone on Earth accepts Islam and becomes a Muslim?

    Will there be peace?
     
  15. apple

    apple Tihar Jail Banned

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    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

    Yeah, I know.

    And Pmaitra claims to have gone to a Roman Catholic school.
     
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  16. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The answer once again is right before us. In case that happens, there will still be sunnis, shias, ahmedis, etc. etc.
    At last if there are just sunnis left, they will struggle for the control of Islam and Mecca. Some would want Sharia, some won't. More fighting.
     
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  17. rockey 71

    rockey 71 Regular Member

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    1.Muslim tradition is similar to what is stated in OP and by Alien - except that in the end Muslims will prevail.
    2. The other point is to note that Islam is not a "religion" as the word religion is defined in the dictionary. There is no idol or image to worship. There is no temple - a mosque is really a community center. Muslims can pray anywhere clean. There is no clergy or priesthood or theocracy in Islam. If mullahs appear visible that is an aberration. In reality Islam is more of a socio-cultural watchdog and a continuous reformist revolution over human society.
    3. The Holy Quroan in many respect evolved from the Testament (alas now lost owing to machinations by Christian priests over the centuries) and the holy texts of Judaism. These scriptures of Christianity and Judaism are also considered holy books by the Muslims, and their prophets acknowledged as prophets of Islam. Lately research is going on to ascertain if Gautam Buddha was also not one of Islam's prophets the identity of most of them being unknown.
     
  18. Alien

    Alien Regular Member

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    Aha ha... :rotfl:are you referring ISIS as Islams watchdog and their revolution over human society?:confused1:

    Man :doh: I understand that, anyone can claim anything, no one can stop other from claiming something but this is one of the most absurd assertions I have read so far :facepalm:

    Could you please enlighten us with some references about that research?
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Guys, I think Buddha is going far off topic. Please focus on the topic. I request members to contribute towards the discussion on the identity of Gog or Magog, and the Middle Eastern Crisis centred around Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Israel please.
     
  20. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Buddha do not believe in Judgement day, he believes in reincarnation and Nirvana(Moksha). This is contrary to abrahamic belief.
     
  21. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Buddha? Never. He never went to give speeches and ask people to create a religion on his name. He didn't have an army. In fact, he left his kingdom (future kingdom), gold and all earthly pleasures to seek eternal happiness. This is in all ways completely contradictory to Islam and Christianity.
     

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