End of MTA with Russia? Antonov and Reliance signed MoC for India's Multi-role Transport Aircraft

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Lions Of Punjab, May 3, 2016.

  1. Lions Of Punjab

    Lions Of Punjab Regular Member

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    The Indian company Reliance Defence Limited and the Ukrainian state-owned aircraft manufacturer Antonov signed a memorandum of cooperation with the purpose of placing aircraft of different purposes based on An-148 / An-158 aircraft in the Indian market, the Indian company announced on April 29.

    [​IMG]Antonov's An-178 medium military transport aircraft
    (Credit: Antonov Company)

    Under the agreement, Reliance and Antonov will jointly bid for the Medium Military Transport Aircraft program of the local aircraft maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). In addition to this, the two companies will also collaborate for assembly, manufacture and maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) of Antonov series of aircraft to address the requirements of the Indian market and also the agreed global markets.

    Antonov's An class of aircraft have long served the Indian Air Force and Navy for over five decades. The Indian Air Force currently operates more than 100 An-32 aircraft, which forms the backbone of its transport fleet. The partnership agreement would provide the benefits of quality and low cost solution for 50-80 seater aircraft through its core competencies.

    The partnership of Reliance Defence and Antonov envisions design of fixed wing Military Aircraft configured for use in tactical as well strategic roles. Powered by two turbofan high fuel-efficiency jet engines, the medium lift aircraft is capable of short field runways operating from remote airfields with unpaved surfaces.

    It is understood that HAL is looking at a market size of up to 300 aircraft in the medium range. This will be potentially the largest collaborative effort involving the Public Sector, Private Sector and Global OEM as part of the Make in India and Skill India initiatives of the Government with value of programs exceeding Rs 50,000 crore (US$ 7.5 bn).

    http://www.airrecognition.com/index...-s-multi-role-transport-aircraft-program.html
     
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  3. Lions Of Punjab

    Lions Of Punjab Regular Member

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    According to reports , India and Russia r facing problem with their Multi Role Transport project . And now Antonov is ready to build its MTA with Realiance in India . This way MTA can be acquired quickly and IAF will not have problems as they r already operating Antonov is big numbers .

    Does project has enough puch to kill the Indo-Russian MTA deal ?
     
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  4. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Antonov jet does not fit our requirement ,it is 18 ton lifter while we need a 20 ton lifter with FADEC engine ,the only other jet is C 130 J,,KC 390 or Kawasaki C 2 that can do the trick, but that is if MTA is not renegotiated
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
  5. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is not so easy to get a military deal in India. Tatas are still waiting for C295 despite finalization of tender.

    And c130 will get a priority for 20 ton transport as 6 more arriving in 2017, and I have a feeling another 10 are likely.
     
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  6. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Antonov needs to complete An32 upgrade.

    A blacklisted company is unlikely to get new deals.

    Reliance is new to the defence game. Anil Ambani always makes mistakes in business.
     
  7. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is a dispute on engine ,IAF wants a FADEC engine and Russian say that it will be a part of a upgrade as they just started work on a new engine family ,but IAF wants it now but does not have the money to integrated a western engine as it will require a some design and avionic changes .So most probably we renegotiate the deal or get C 130J but I would like KC 390 or C 2.
     
  8. smestarz

    smestarz Senior Member Senior Member

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    Is IAF looking for a plane with Turbo prop or Turbo Jet engine, If they do not mind then maybe eve Airbus A400M is also a candidate.
    I think this move by reliance is good, now maybe Russians would have to do development on their own and then have a JV with an Indian company to produce in India.
     
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  9. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Cant't the 2 to lifting capacity be increased? What is required is a bit powerful version of existing engine and bit more stiffer air frame. What say?
     
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  10. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    That's nice, HAL put out, and private Co in. :biggrin2:
     
  11. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Antonov is likely out of Indian market for a long time due to An-32 fiasco.
     
  12. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Actually, it was Russia who was trying to bully us due to the single vendor situation which we found ourselves in, so it is not necessarily a bad thing if it gets cancelled. The most important reason India wanted a JV for this type of planes was because we wanted to gain experience in the engines, but Russia wasn't willing to share the engine tech with us. They wanted to use the same old engine to make sure no new R&D takes place, while India wanted to build a new engine with more power. Seems like Ukraine acceded to those demand. Serves us well, and serves Russia well. Now they know the cost of acting tough with India. They will lose a good amount of much needed revenue if this deal goes to Ukraine. Russia was planning to use our revenue to build up their own fleet while making sure India gains no vertical enhancement in aircraft building capability. The fact that Russia chose to be so stubborn and arrogant despite being under the desperate pressure of sanctions shows how they take India for granted. Glad Modi squeezed Putin on all the other deals including diamond trade, oil refinement and S400. At the same time the entire HAL cabal was kept out of this, which is a good thing.

    Ukraine also sells military hardware to Pakistan and was in the process of selling more; Hopefully, this JV will give us enough leverage to get them to dump Pakistan. It works for all parties involved. US and China will happy because Pakistan is prevented from having an alternate vendor to hedge as a bargaining chip against. US will also be happy that Russia lost Indian contracts. India will be happy because we will be getting new technology from a non-bully nation by eliminating the scope for potential US sanctions and Russian blackmail.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  13. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    You really want to buy from Ukraine? You must be living in middle of Sahara!

    Have you heard Modi visiting Kiev? Or any exchange of delegations between Kiev and Delhi?

    Have you heard of An-32 story. Or the fact that Antonov is bankrupt?

    Typing gibberish is easy. Do some research before typing.

    An Air Force which is not convinced of Russians will get convinced of Ukrainians? IAF wants European maal, or American if possible.

    Ukraine is nowhere on the horizon.
     
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  14. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    But we still can get ToT from them like Chinese.
    They also didn't crawl up to Ukraine for ToT. Diplomatic relations can easily get it.
     
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  15. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why do you want this TOT? I doubt IAF wants these planes in the first place.

    IAF's resistance to Russia is mostly on the grounds of "quality". How can Ukrainian do better here?

    You may not know but Antonov was mostly surviving on Russian projects. There are lot of IPR disputes with Russians. The cautious Indian MOD will NEVER buy from Antonov, I can guarantee.
     
  16. Gessler

    Gessler Regular Member

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    If MTA is cancelled, then C-130J (or the cheaper 130XJ version) is most likely to be pursued. But we must remember that IAF/MoD will not go after the 130J as a viable alternative until & unless they are absolutely certain that they cannot go ahead with the MTA project.

    The currently in service version (also the additional six) are the extended 130J-30 version that we put mostly for Special Forces use. For replacing the An-32s, the shorter baseline 130J version should suffice.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    What IAF wants?
    This has screwed us our Air Power against US, Russia and China for years.
    :smash:
    Whatever be quality, get it as your own. After that it won't be difficult to further develop that tech. Others who innovated had to fight with whatever they're given. They couldn't choose like us.
    IAF standards are always behind shining stuff and crushing opportunities of domestic sector. Good to see government has looked into the matter.
    Get ToT, make planes, develop them further and then, make them adapt to your standards instead of continuing this buying legacy forever.

    HAL delays everything, Reliance will bring tech for us.
     
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  18. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    We also purchased 56 C-295, how does that fit into the entire calculus? Will the C295 be used for SF, and C130 for dropping resupplies?
     
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  19. Gessler

    Gessler Regular Member

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    The C-295s are for replacing the HS-748M. They are the most basic tier of turboprop transports - for everything from shuttling personnel to delivering service mail. They won't be used by SFs (though if SFs want them for a particular mission, they can have).

    The C-130J/MTA are for replacing the An-32B. They do most of the menial transport duties (resupply, rotate infantry deployments across bases, carry around light armored vehicles, assist in para-dropping of airborne forces etc.), but over longer ranges and with higher payloads than the basic C295 level.

    The C-130J-30 version (of which we bought 12 so far) is dedicated for SFs use.
     
  20. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Anil Ambani is a failure. His group is sliding constantly.

    He has big ambitions for defence but he has started making mistakes already.

    I would bet on L&T, Tata, Bharat Forge, and Mahindra for defence projects.

    It is not easy to navigate the complex maze of defence contracts in India.

    Pipapav should focus on shipbuilding where the biggest opportunity is Kilo class submarine.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  21. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Reliance has entered industry very recent. They have not even started properly and you said they're failing. :facepalm:
     
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