Encircling China

spikey360

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Well, the Chinese seem to be overjoyed with their lack of democracy. They are absolutely oblivious to the fact that one protest means you disappear from the world forever. If economic growth is everything, the foremost joy in the world, then the richest man on earth is also the happiest. Unfortunately it is never so. If you cannot live like a free human, just like you were born, it is not a life worth living.
 

niceguy2011

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r u sure what r u talking?" All growth figures that we see are already adjusted for inflation"?
Being part of the Chinese 50-cent army, I cannot expect you to have the decency to back down when you are presented with facts and figures, your behaviour is on expected lines.

Keep harping on the words used - "economic reforms", "opening up the economy", whatever. First go and nag all the newspaper editors and writers and tv anchors who loosely refer to these as 'economic reforms'. Instead of harping on semantics, why don't you talk about the freaking point?

Call it economic reforms, opening up - whatever shit you want. But understand this, and understand it well - China is ahead of India by 15 years because India started the economic reforms/opening up 15 years later. That is all there is to it.




I don't understand why all the Chinese here completely fail to understand the point, and just fly off on a tangent.

When it comes to India/China, democracy and communism has no damn relation with the state of the economy and social indicators, that is what I have been saying. I proved it statistically. Take whatever human development or economic statistics you want and extrapolate it over the next 15 years, you will get the same result. The 'head start' is the difference.

Yeah, your form of government is decisive. Decisive enough for deranged goons like Mao to implement their 'great leaps' and 'cultural revolutions'. :crazy: If the top layer is rotten, a decisive government is the worst possible thing that can happen.

Yes, those 15 years were because India "stood aside" as you put it. The leaders were too stupid to read the writing on the walls and change the direction of the economy in time.

I am not taking credit away from the Chinese government for doing the right thing in the late 70s. But the Chinese here need to understand a few things about what is the real reason for things being the way they are.



You are an idiot who doesn't know shit about economics. All growth figures that we see are already adjusted for inflation. Don't make nonsense statements. If you don't know stuff, go and learn about it. Remember the saying, "it is better to keep one's mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, rather than open it and dispel all doubt".
 

Bangalorean

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r u sure what r u talking?" All growth figures that we see are already adjusted for inflation"?
Of course! This is true of India, China and all other nations. Check any economics discussion or website.

And one more thing. In many cases, inflation will actually decrease the GDP (PPP) , and not increase it. Let me explain how.

What is GDP (PPP) ? One dollar in the USA will not fetch much - it does not have much value. But in India, one dollar is fifty rupees, and with that money, a person can eat three meals in the rural regions. So, comparing per capita figures on pure dollar values will not make any sense. That is why, the calculation is adjusted to calculate how much goods those many dollars will actually fetch in India. So, even though India's GDP per capita is $1100, it seems very low to a Westerner, but the GDP (PPP) is $3000 per capita. China's GDP per capita is around $3300, but GDP (PPP) is $8500.

Now, what happens due to inflation? The price of a haircut in rural area in India is around Rs. 25. Let us assume that due to inflation, the price goes up to Rs. 50. Then, it has an adverse impact on GDP (PPP) figures. Because formerly one dollar in India would have fetched two haircuts, but now it fetches only one. Suppose the price of everything goes up so much that one haircut starts costing Rs. 400 ($8), which is the same as US rate. Then, India's GDP (PPP) will come down to $1100, same as nominal, because everything costs the same as US, and things are not cheaper anymore.

It is a rather complex subject, and even I am not an expert at all - I am an IT guy. But I know some basics, and I do know that what we speak of is "real growth rate", always - completely adjusted for inflation.
 

niceguy2011

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So, you think India will be always behind Chin one and a half decade(or little bit less)?

Of course! This is true of India, China and all other nations. Check any economics discussion or website.

And one more thing. In many cases, inflation will actually decrease the GDP (PPP) , and not increase it. Let me explain how.

What is GDP (PPP) ? One dollar in the USA will not fetch much - it does not have much value. But in India, one dollar is fifty rupees, and with that money, a person can eat three meals in the rural regions. So, comparing per capita figures on pure dollar values will not make any sense. That is why, the calculation is adjusted to calculate how much goods those many dollars will actually fetch in India. So, even though India's GDP per capita is $1100, it seems very low to a Westerner, but the GDP (PPP) is $3000 per capita. China's GDP per capita is around $3300, but GDP (PPP) is $8500.

Now, what happens due to inflation? The price of a haircut in rural area in India is around Rs. 25. Let us assume that due to inflation, the price goes up to Rs. 50. Then, it has an adverse impact on GDP (PPP) figures. Because formerly one dollar in India would have fetched two haircuts, but now it fetches only one. Suppose the price of everything goes up so much that one haircut starts costing Rs. 400 ($8), which is the same as US rate. Then, India's GDP (PPP) will come down to $1100, same as nominal, because everything costs the same as US, and things are not cheaper anymore.

It is a rather complex subject, and even I am not an expert at all - I am an IT guy. But I know some basics, and I do know that what we speak of is "real growth rate", always - completely adjusted for inflation.
 

Bangalorean

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So, you think India will be always behind Chin one and a half decade(or little bit less)?
That is a matter of prediction. I am confident that India will continue to grow the same way as it did in the last decade. And if China continues growing the same way as it has grown in the last decade, then India will remain behind China even in 2025. If China's growth slows down or stagnates, then all bets are off.
 

ice berg

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Being part of the Chinese 50-cent army, I cannot expect you to have the decency to back down when you are presented with facts and figures, your behaviour is on expected lines.

Keep harping on the words used - "economic reforms", "opening up the economy", whatever. First go and nag all the newspaper editors and writers and tv anchors who loosely refer to these as 'economic reforms'. Instead of harping on semantics, why don't you talk about the freaking point?

Call it economic reforms, opening up - whatever shit you want. But understand this, and understand it well - China is ahead of India by 15 years because India started the economic reforms/opening up 15 years later. That is all there is to it.




I don't understand why all the Chinese here completely fail to understand the point, and just fly off on a tangent.

When it comes to India/China, democracy and communism has no damn relation with the state of the economy and social indicators, that is what I have been saying. I proved it statistically. Take whatever human development or economic statistics you want and extrapolate it over the next 15 years, you will get the same result. The 'head start' is the difference.

Yeah, your form of government is decisive. Decisive enough for deranged goons like Mao to implement their 'great leaps' and 'cultural revolutions'. :crazy: If the top layer is rotten, a decisive government is the worst possible thing that can happen.

Yes, those 15 years were because India "stood aside" as you put it. The leaders were too stupid to read the writing on the walls and change the direction of the economy in time.

I am not taking credit away from the Chinese government for doing the right thing in the late 70s. But the Chinese here need to understand a few things about what is the real reason for things being the way they are.



You are an idiot who doesn't know shit about economics. All growth figures that we see are already adjusted for inflation. Don't make nonsense statements. If you don't know stuff, go and learn about it. Remember the saying, "it is better to keep one's mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, rather than open it and dispel all doubt".
Sigh, ignorance is a bliss.

So when you cant debate , you resort to name-calling? It reflects more on you how you label others.

Consider you dont even know where I live, it is funny how you come up with those names. :lol:

Let me educate you, here:

Comparing India and China: Chasing the dragon | The Economist

Comparing India and China
Chasing the dragon
Oct 3rd 2011, 15:26 by The Economist online

..How the Asian superpowers compare on various measures of development

IN THE recent Singapore Grand Prix, a car belonging to the Force India team reached the finish line just 111 seconds after the leader. Today's chart uses a stopwatch to compare India's progress in development against another pace-setter, China. The chart shows the number of years that have elapsed since China passed the development milestones that India has now reached. India's income per head, for example, was about $3,200 in 2009 (holding purchasing power constant across time and between countries). China reached that level of development nine years ago. The lag in social progress is much longer. A child's odds of surviving past their fifth birthday are as bad in India today as they were in China in the 1970s. Moreover, the chart does not necessarily imply that India in nine years' time will be as rich as China is today. That is because China grew faster in the last nine years than India is likely to grow over the next nine. We stopped the clock at $3200 per head. But China did not stop racing ahead.




There goes your 15 years down the toilet. I feel no need to adress your other points since you dont even know the basics.

Keep trolling and flamebait, kid.
 
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Ray

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I am reminded of the story of the rabbit and the tortoise.
 

debasree

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And who says I'm not free? I didn't know China was under dictatorship either.. I guess that's the default excuse for poor leadership in India: We're free, so it doesn't matter that almost 40% of the population lives under the poverty line.
one party rull mean for what then looks like u have agood brainwash in ccp schools
 

J20!

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Well, the Chinese seem to be overjoyed with their lack of democracy. They are absolutely oblivious to the fact that one protest means you disappear from the world forever. If economic growth is everything, the foremost joy in the world, then the richest man on earth is also the happiest. Unfortunately it is never so. If you cannot live like a free human, just like you were born, it is not a life worth living.
Look, i cant demonstrate against the ruling party. It has been this way since before I was born. I accept it. But trying to claim that because I cant demostrate means I have no freedoms is stupid on your part. I do not live in a guilded cage. I own my own house, my own car, I go work were I want and can choose were to send my daughter to school. I am not a "slave". The CCP doesn't decide and plan out my life, I decide my path, and that, as far as I'm concerned is the definition of MY freedom. I'd bet you anything that most of the 400 million plus Indians living under the poverty line have never participated in a protest against their government, but then ALL of them need to eat and a place to sleep and a constant supply of income with which to feed their children. The average Chinese citizen can do all that. Somethings are neccessities, and I'd rather have those than protest.


Maybe China will become a democracy in the future, and my daughter will be able to vote. That would make me happy, but right now, I'm content with being able to provide for her, and I'm sure that's something a third of your population wish they could have.
 

spikey360

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Look, i cant demonstrate against the ruling party. It has been this way since before I was born. I accept it. But trying to claim that because I cant demostrate means I have no freedoms is stupid on your part. I do not live in a guilded cage. I own my own house, my own car, I go work were I want and can choose were to send my daughter to school. I am not a "slave". The CCP doesn't decide and plan out my life, I decide my path, and that, as far as I'm concerned is the definition of MY freedom. I'd bet you anything that most of the 400 million plus Indians living under the poverty line have never participated in a protest against their government, but then ALL of them need to eat and a place to sleep and a constant supply of income with which to feed their children. The average Chinese citizen can do all that. Somethings are neccessities, and I'd rather have those than protest.


Maybe China will become a democracy in the future, and my daughter will be able to vote. That would make me happy, but right now, I'm content with being able to provide for her, and I'm sure that's something a third of your population wish they could have.
Ok. We hear you. We hope that you become a democracy sooner than later. And since you've accepted whatever has been said, personally, i'll accept it too that we indians have not done as much as we could have. Yes, we faultered at times. But that is human nature when it is free and unbridled. No escaping that.
Perhaps it is best not to compare the achievements of the two countries in this thread. I do hope we live in peace in the near future.
And definitely, US power projection in this region is most unwelcome, however opportune it might be for India at present.
 

spikey360

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And you're damn wrong when you say the poor masses haven't participated in protest against the government. Maybe you chinese should get rid of that great firewall to let all information flow into the public domain. Think about it. Your ignorance will push you to your own graves.
 

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