Encircling China

[Bangalorean]

Head start? Funny, consider that Indian GDP was bigger than Chinas when the CCP took over. India was in a much better shape than a war torned China.
Now the chinese economy is several times larger.

It was India who had an head start, not China.

You wasted it, end of story.

I was referring to 'economic reforms'. Ever heard of them?

 

[ice berg]

I was referring to 'economic reforms'. Ever heard of them?

You mean India never had any "economic reforms" before the 90s?
If that is your understanding of "economic reforms" then I rest my case..

 

[J20!]

The Chinese members here need to understand that India started economic reforms nearly 15 years after the Chinese did. I have said this time and again, but somehow the Chinese members fail to grasp this. The reason China is around a decade and a half ahead of India has nothing to do with the "great" CCP or great "Chinese model". It has to do with the head start that the Chinese had, thanks to Deng Xiaoping. If that goon Mao had been alive till 2000, India would have been ahead of China today in almost all parameters.

That is the truth. Extrapolate India's growth (in all parameters) over the next 10-15 years, and you will see it approaching Chinese levels as of today.

I wasn't trying to hurt anyones feelings, there's no reason to get all defensive. I was simply comparing the economies of two similar (population-wise) countries who follow different systems to illustrate why I'd like China to follow the status quo till the average Chinese citizen is as well off as the average S. Korean citizen, and why I'd like the US (the West in general) to stop butting in on Soverign countries internal matters.


India's been a democracy since its independence, so really it doesn't matter when you implemented economic reforms when we're comparing the standard of living of your democracy and our Communism "with capitalist characteristics"..

 

[W.G.Ewald]

This should be the last straw, in their long history, they have waged many a war, got dragged into some and slyly created conditions for war in many places of the world. I am sure, the world would be a more balanced and relatively calmer place if US was forcefully denuclearised by other nations of the world. Their time is over, they cannot force their will on every country on earth. It is unfortunate that the 'greatest democracy on earth' fails to understand the concept of soverignity of other nations. The self appointed guardians of the world should go.
At first it was USSR, Now its China, am sure one day it will be India's turn too. It is time the world powers snipped the wings of USA.

Not arguing with your main point, do you not consider India to be the greatest democracy on earth? And, the US is really a representative republic to be accurate.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Snipping the wings of the USA is a pipedream.

From the article:

Alice Slater is the New York Director of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation and serves on the Advisory Board of the Global Network.

As they say, consider the source.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

If we gradually start rejecting all things US, starting from culture ....

Too late!

 

[W.G.Ewald]

No contest.

The only thing I think is that to ignore the US and bring it to its knees, we have to be economically and military strong too!

US is not just US. It is the joint will of US and Europe.

That is where the military and economic might is, assisted by the lackeys in the Middle East!

My question would have to be, who is whose lackey in the Middle East? Is the US not the lackey of the oil producers?

 

[Tolaha]

You mean India never had any "economic reforms" before the 90s?
If that is your understanding of "economic reforms" then I rest my case..

Utter wastage of space.
Can you atleast make an attempt to comprehend what other members tell?

 

[Ray]

My question would have to be, who is whose lackey in the Middle East? Is the US not the lackey of the oil producers?

US is not their lackey.

The US keeps them in good humour and when they step out of line, the US merely squeezes them in the golis (as the British used to say) till they nod their heads and agree!

I am sure you would understand what are golis.

 

[Ray]

Quote Originally Posted by spikey360 View Post
If we gradually start rejecting all things US, starting from culture ....

The US has no culture as such.

They are a pot-pourri.

And they don't wear ties and only Jeans.

Wear a vest and on top of that a shirt with buttons open!

And eat with a fork, even though the cutlery is laid on the table.

Eat from a counter and not on table!

So...........

Are you speaking of this?

If you are, you are wasting your time.

More so, because they could not care less as to what anyone thinks of them!

Arrogance is another thing that is a US copyright.

They never admit that they can lose!

To them the word 'Lose' is Blasphemy!

 

[Bangalorean]

You mean India never had any "economic reforms" before the 90s?
If that is your understanding of "economic reforms" then I rest my case..

Please don't waste bandwidth with silly posts. You are typing some nonsense just for the sake of arguing.

That thug Mao led the country in a certain direction. Deng Xiaoping corrected the course of the nation in 1978-79.

In India's case, the NehruGandhi period was a period of economic stagnation with quasi-socialist policies, known in India as the era of "license raj". The economic growth was horrendously slow (or non-existent) in that period, and was derisively called the "Hindu rate of growth". It should have been called the NehruGandhi rate of growth.

This flawed economic policy was corrected in 1991 by the Narasimha Rao - Manmohan Singh government, just like Deng corrected that thug Mao's policies.

That is what leads to the 13 year headstart - actually a bit more if one wants to be precise.

I know that you are aware of all this and are just trolling here and wasting forum space - yet, I am typing replies here so that the uninitiated find out the level of education that the 50 cent army gets.

I wasn't trying to hurt anyones feelings, there's no reason to get all defensive. I was simply comparing the economies of two similar (population-wise) countries who follow different systems to illustrate why I'd like China to follow the status quo till the average Chinese citizen is as well off as the average S. Korean citizen, and why I'd like the US (the West in general) to stop butting in on Soverign countries internal matters.


India's been a democracy since its independence, so really it doesn't matter when you implemented economic reforms when we're comparing the standard of living of your democracy and our Communism "with capitalist characteristics"..

You post does not make sense.

The fault with India was always flawed economic policies. The quasi-socialist license raj was the problem. That is the freaking reason the "standard of living" is lower. It has nothing to do with democracy. The fault never was with "democracy", as you put it.

The only reason standards of living are lower here is because of the head start that your country had in implementing economic reforms. I will say it again: if that goon Mao had lived till 2000, your nation would have been far behind India.

You do realize that India's literacy is growing year on year. The current 78% will change to 95% in 15 years time. Per capita income will reach $3000+ in the same amount of time. Take the growth of all possible indicators, extrapolate them over the next 15 years, and you will see that India will be at the same level as China is today, give or take a few percentage points in some indicators here and there.

Credit does not go to communism, credit goes to nature, for knocking down that thug Mao when it did.

 

[niceguy2011]

What a magical 15 years can make such a different.
so, When do u think India can catch up China's pace(in terms of GDP per capita, eduction rate , militarily power.etc)

Please don't waste bandwidth with silly posts. You are typing some nonsense just for the sake of arguing.

That thug Mao led the country in a certain direction. Deng Xiaoping corrected the course of the nation in 1978-79.

In India's case, the NehruGandhi period was a period of economic stagnation with quasi-socialist policies, known in India as the era of "license raj". The economic growth was horrendously slow (or non-existent) in that period, and was derisively called the "Hindu rate of growth". It should have been called the NehruGandhi rate of growth.

This flawed economic policy was corrected in 1991 by the Narasimha Rao - Manmohan Singh government, just like Deng corrected that thug Mao's policies.

That is what leads to the 13 year headstart - actually a bit more if one wants to be precise.

I know that you are aware of all this and are just trolling here and wasting forum space - yet, I am typing replies here so that the uninitiated find out the level of education that the 50 cent army gets.



You post does not make sense.

The fault with India was always flawed economic policies. The quasi-socialist license raj was the problem. That is the freaking reason the "standard of living" is lower. It has nothing to do with democracy. The fault never was with "democracy", as you put it.

The only reason standards of living are lower here is because of the head start that your country had in implementing economic reforms. I will say it again: if that goon Mao had lived till 2000, your nation would have been far behind India.

You do realize that India's literacy is growing year on year. The current 78% will change to 95% in 15 years time. Per capita income will reach $3000+ in the same amount of time. Take the growth of all possible indicators, extrapolate them over the next 15 years, and you will see that India will be at the same level as China is today, give or take a few percentage points in some indicators here and there.

Credit does not go to communism, credit goes to nature, for knocking down that thug Mao when it did.

 

[Bangalorean]

What a magical 15 years can make such a different.
so, When do u think India can catch up China's pace(in terms of GDP per capita, eduction rate , militarily power.etc)

Yes, "magical 15 years" can make an effin' huge difference.

I don't know about "catching up" - did I say anything about "catching up"? I am not an astrologer. All I am talking about, is the head start that China had. That is the only freaking reason China is ahead. I can prove this statistically.

In the worst case (from India's POV), India will be where China is today in 15 years time. Maybe even earlier, if we do beyond expectations.

You can do the math yourself. China's current GDP (PPP) is $8000. India's is around $3000. India's GDP PPP will be around $8000 by 2020, if not earlier. Look at the projections - you can google it. China's literacy rate is 95, whereas India's is 76. Based on growth in previous decade, India's literacy will be 92-93 in 15 years. If growth is better, maybe it will be 95 in 15 years.

Please understand, all you Chinese members - these things are easily calculable and verifiable. Your nation is ahead because of the head start you had. You are not ahead by virtue of some great inherent capability. If you believe in some God, go and thank him that that goon Mao died when he did.

 

[ice berg]

Please don't waste bandwidth with silly posts. You are typing some nonsense just for the sake of arguing.

That thug Mao led the country in a certain direction. Deng Xiaoping corrected the course of the nation in 1978-79.

In India's case, the NehruGandhi period was a period of economic stagnation with quasi-socialist policies, known in India as the era of "license raj". The economic growth was horrendously slow (or non-existent) in that period, and was derisively called the "Hindu rate of growth". It should have been called the NehruGandhi rate of growth.

This flawed economic policy was corrected in 1991 by the Narasimha Rao - Manmohan Singh government, just like Deng corrected that thug Mao's policies.

That is what leads to the 13 year headstart - actually a bit more if one wants to be precise.

I know that you are aware of all this and are just trolling here and wasting forum space - yet, I am typing replies here so that the uninitiated find out the level of education that the 50 cent army gets.

I am afraid you are the one wasting your bandwidth here, precious as they are in your country.

Both India and China had economic reforms since their independence . They both followed the so-called socialisme path with differenct economic reforms.

China opened up her economy in the 70s and India did it in the 90s. But they had economic reforms all the way up till then.

Therefore your comment about India didnt have any economic reforms until 91 is flawed at best.

So my point still stands. When the commies took over China. China lags behind India in several areas including GDP.

Today they are several times bigger than Indian GDP.

The numbers speak for it-self. India had the head start.

When India opened up her economy is complete irrelevant. They followed different paths.

India focused on service and domestic consumption. China focused on export. There is no comparison here because they had and still have different methods for growth.

I know that you are unaware of all this and are just trolling here and wasting forum space - yet, I am typing replies here so that the uninitiated find out the education level of certain people here. No need to thank me.

Have fun with this thread!

 

[J20!]

so, it is all against the US that is encircling China and making it impotent?

How is the US making China impotent? Influence doesn't come with the fact that you have a bigger army or airforce, its all down to money. China right now is the biggest trading partner to all its neighbors, and yes, even India. Someone said the US can offer more than what China does to the region. That is false. The US isn't the largest tradng partner to the countries in the region, China is. As long as that's the case, all the States can do is keep pposting marines all over the pacific, but that doesn't change the fact that economically, China rules the roost

The fault with India was always flawed economic policies. The quasi-socialist license raj was the problem. That is the freaking reason the "standard of living" is lower. It has nothing to do with democracy. The fault never was with "democracy", as you put it.

The only reason standards of living are lower here is because of the head start that your country had in implementing economic reforms. I will say it again: if that goon Mao had lived till 2000, your nation would have been far behind India.

You do realize that India's literacy is growing year on year. The current 78% will change to 95% in 15 years time. Per capita income will reach $3000+ in the same amount of time. Take the growth of all possible indicators, extrapolate them over the next 15 years, and you will see that India will be at the same level as China is today, give or take a few percentage points in some indicators here and there.

Credit does not go to communism, credit goes to nature, for knocking down that thug Mao when it did.

I was not comparing ECONOMIC REFORMS. I was comparing India's democracy with China's form of Communism. Was India not a democratic country before economic reforms? Yes it was. it's not like you were something else and changed all of a sudden.

Your post on economic reforms proves my point even further. Our form of government is decisive. When they decide to do something, it is done. What takes years to do in India is done in months in China. Decisive action is what has pulled China out of poverty, five year plans and the like. Those fifteen years weren't because India stood there and let us have a "head-start" are they? And you cant just say India will DEFINITELY be where China is now in 15 years. You say it like the Chinese Govt just sat there and coasted along and the economy grew.

 

[Blackwater]

]I am afraid you are the one wasting your bandwidth here, precious as they are in your country.
[/COLOR]
Both India and China had economic reforms since their independence . They both followed the so-called socialisme path with differenct economic reforms.

China opened up her economy in the 70s and India did it in the 90s. But they had economic reforms all the way up till then.

Therefore your comment about India didnt have any economic reforms until 91 is flawed at best.

So my point still stands. When the commies took over China. China lags behind India in several areas including GDP.

Today they are several times bigger than Indian GDP.

The numbers speak for it-self. India had the head start.

When India opened up her economy is complete irrelevant. They followed different paths.

India focused on service and domestic consumption. China focused on export. There is no comparison here because they had and still have different methods for growth.

I know that you are unaware of all this and are just trolling here and wasting forum space - yet, I am typing replies here so that the uninitiated find out the education level of certain people here. No need to thank me.

Have fun with this thread!

Don't worry about our bandwidth. here bandwidth is not imp, contra band is more imp, You chini think of aid infected bed partner porkistan.

 

[niceguy2011]

U forgot to compare the inflation rate. most of ur GDP growth are course by inflation.

Yes, "magical 15 years" can make an effin' huge difference.

I don't know about "catching up" - did I say anything about "catching up"? I am not an astrologer. All I am talking about, is the head start that China had. That is the only freaking reason China is ahead. I can prove this statistically.

In the worst case (from India's POV), India will be where China is today in 15 years time. Maybe even earlier, if we do beyond expectations.

You can do the math yourself. China's current GDP (PPP) is $8000. India's is around $3000. India's GDP PPP will be around $8000 by 2020, if not earlier. Look at the projections - you can google it. China's literacy rate is 95, whereas India's is 76. Based on growth in previous decade, India's literacy will be 92-93 in 15 years. If growth is better, maybe it will be 95 in 15 years.

Please understand, all you Chinese members - these things are easily calculable and verifiable. Your nation is ahead because of the head start you had. You are not ahead by virtue of some great inherent capability. If you believe in some God, go and thank him that that goon Mao died when he did.

 

[Bangalorean]

I am afraid you are the one wasting your bandwidth here, precious as they are in your country.

Both India and China had economic reforms since their independence . They both followed the so-called socialisme path with differenct economic reforms.

China opened up her economy in the 70s and India did it in the 90s. But they had economic reforms all the way up till then.

Therefore your comment about India didnt have any economic reforms until 91 is flawed at best.

So my point still stands. When the commies took over China. China lags behind India in several areas including GDP.

Today they are several times bigger than Indian GDP.

The numbers speak for it-self. India had the head start.

When India opened up her economy is complete irrelevant. They followed different paths.

India focused on service and domestic consumption. China focused on export. There is no comparison here because they had and still have different methods for growth.

I know that you are unaware of all this and are just trolling here and wasting forum space - yet, I am typing replies here so that the uninitiated find out the education level of certain people here. No need to thank me.

Have fun with this thread!

Being part of the Chinese 50-cent army, I cannot expect you to have the decency to back down when you are presented with facts and figures, your behaviour is on expected lines.

Keep harping on the words used - "economic reforms", "opening up the economy", whatever. First go and nag all the newspaper editors and writers and tv anchors who loosely refer to these as 'economic reforms'. Instead of harping on semantics, why don't you talk about the freaking point?

Call it economic reforms, opening up - whatever shit you want. But understand this, and understand it well - China is ahead of India by 15 years because India started the economic reforms/opening up 15 years later. That is all there is to it.

I was not comparing ECONOMIC REFORMS. I was comparing India's democracy with China's form of Communism. Was India not a democratic country before economic reforms? Yes it was. it's not like you were something else and changed all of a sudden.

Your post on economic reforms proves my point even further. Our form of government is decisive. When they decide to do something, it is done. What takes years to do in India is done in months in China. Decisive action is what has pulled China out of poverty, five year plans and the like. Those fifteen years weren't because India stood there and let us have a "head-start" are they? And you cant just say India will DEFINITELY be where China is now in 15 years. You say it like the Chinese Govt just sat there and coasted along and the economy grew.

I don't understand why all the Chinese here completely fail to understand the point, and just fly off on a tangent.

When it comes to India/China, democracy and communism has no damn relation with the state of the economy and social indicators, that is what I have been saying. I proved it statistically. Take whatever human development or economic statistics you want and extrapolate it over the next 15 years, you will get the same result. The 'head start' is the difference.

Yeah, your form of government is decisive. Decisive enough for deranged goons like Mao to implement their 'great leaps' and 'cultural revolutions'. If the top layer is rotten, a decisive government is the worst possible thing that can happen.

Yes, those 15 years were because India "stood aside" as you put it. The leaders were too stupid to read the writing on the walls and change the direction of the economy in time.

I am not taking credit away from the Chinese government for doing the right thing in the late 70s. But the Chinese here need to understand a few things about what is the real reason for things being the way they are.

U forgot to compare the inflation rate. most of ur GDP growth are course by inflation.

You are an idiot who doesn't know shit about economics. All growth figures that we see are already adjusted for inflation. Don't make nonsense statements. If you don't know stuff, go and learn about it. Remember the saying, "it is better to keep one's mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, rather than open it and dispel all doubt".

 

[spikey360]

Not arguing with your main point, do you not consider India to be the greatest democracy on earth? And, the US is really a representative republic to be accurate.

Well, India is the largest democracy, but is it the greatest democracy on earth? Perhaps not, maybe we can be, given enough time. US has been a democracy for almost 250 years. We're just 64 year old democracy. So, yes, parities exist. We do have a lot to learn still. However, that is purely my view, my compatriots may disagree.

 

[spikey360]

Too late!

It's never too late. But there has to be a strong incentive to do so. The world needs that incentive, it hasn't appeared yet, whatever it may be.