Encircling China

Discussion in 'China' started by LETHALFORCE, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Encircling China » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the NamesOn UN Day, at a panel on Nuclear Disarmament, Secretary General Ban-ki Moon spoke about his 2008 five point proposal for nuclear disarmament, including the requirement for negotiations to ban the bomb. It was dismaying when the next speaker, a retired US Air Force General, Michal Mosley, breezily assured the audience and his fellow panelists that it certainly was now possible to rid the world of nuclear weapons, since atomic bomb technology is thoroughly out of date. He boasted that today “we” have long range attack weapons of such “unbelievable precision and lethality” that we no longer need nuclear weapons in the US arsenal. Our conventional weapons are ever so superior to those of any other nation. He said this as his fellow co-panelists, the Russian and Chinese ambassadors, took in the full import of his braggadocio, to my extreme embarrassment as a US citizen. Did the General consider for a moment the effect his words were having on the Ambassadors and the other non-US participants in the meeting? His astonishing disregard for the effect of such provocative war talk on our fellow earth mates seems to be a major failure of our “tin ear” foreign policy.


    Hillary Clinton proclaimed a similarly tone-deaf policy in an article in November’s Foreign Affairs, “America’s Pacific Century”, remarking that now that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were winding down, we were at a “pivot point” and that “one of the most important tasks of American statecraft over the next decade will be to lock in a substantially increased investment—diplomatic economic, strategic and otherwise—in the Asia-Pacific region.” Calling for “forward-deployed” diplomacy, she defined it to include “forging a broad-based military presence” in Asia…that would be “as durable and as consistent with American interests and values as the web we have built across the Atlantic…capable of deterring provocation from the full spectrum of state and non-state actors” She added that just as our NATO alliance “has paid off many times over…the time has come to make similar investments as a Pacific power”.


    Citing our Treaty alliances with Japan, South Korea, Australia, the Philippines and Thailand as the “fulcrum for our strategic turn to the Asian-Pacific”, she also spoke of the need to expand our relationships to include India, Indonesia Singapore, New Zealand, Malaysia, Mongolia Vietnam, and the Pacific Island countries. While acknowledging “fears and misperceptions that “linger on both sides of the Pacific”, stating that “some in our country see China’s progress as a threat to the United States; some in China worry that America seeks to constrain China’s growth” she blithely asserted, “we reject both those views …a thriving America is good for China and a thriving China is good for America”. This said as the United States aggressively lines up a host of new nations in an expanded Pacific military alliance, providing them with missile defenses, ships, and warplanes, encircling China. What is she thinking?


    Shortly after Clinton’s article appeared, Obama went to Australia to open up a new military base there with a token 250 US soldiers, and a promise of 2500 to come with plans for joint military training, promising that “we will allocate the resources necessary to maintain our strong military presence in this region.” He also adopted the “Manila Declaration”, pledging closer military ties with the Philippines and announced the sale of 24 F-16 fighter jets to Indonesia. Clinton just paid a visit to Myanmar, long allied with China, to re-establish relations there.





    In her article’s conclusion Clinton bragged, “Our military is by far the strongest and our economy is by far the largest in the world. Our workers are the most productive. Our universities are renowned the world over. So there should be no doubt that America has the capacity to secure and sustain our global leadership in this century as we did in the last.” Didn’t anyone tell her that the number of Americans living below the official poverty line, 46.2 million people, was the highest in the 52 years the census bureau has been publishing those figures? Or that the United States deteriorating transportation infrastructure will cost the economy more than 870,000 jobs and would suppress US economic growth by $3.1 trillion by 2020, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers?





    The tone-deaf quality of US foreign policy pronouncements is like an infant who pulls the covers over his head to play peek-a-boo, thinking he can’t be seen so long as he can’t see out. China has responded as would be expected. A Pentagon report warned Congress that China was increasing its naval power and investing in high-tech weaponry to extend its reach in the Pacific and beyond. It ramped up efforts to produce anti-ship missiles to knock out aircraft carriers, improved targeting radar, expanding its fleet of nuclear-powered submarines and warships and making advances in satellite technology and cyber warfare. What did we expect? And now, having provoked China to beef up its military assets, the warmongers in the US can frighten the public into supporting the next wild burgeoning arms race in the Pacific and what appears to be endless war.





    This month, Mikhail Gorbachev , in The Nation , observed the US elite’s “winner’s complex” after the end of the Cold War, and the references to the US as a “hyperpower”, capable of creating “a new kind of empire” . He said, “[t]hinking in such terms in our time is a delusion. No wonder that the imperial project failed and that it soon became clear that it was a mission impossible even for the United States.” The opportunity to build a “truly new world order was lost.” The US decision to expand NATO eastward “usurped the functions of the United Nations and thus weakened it. We are engulfed in global turmoil, “drifting in uncharted waters. The global economic crisis of 2008 made that abundantly clear. “





    Sadly, the powers in control of US public policy and their far-flung global allies appear to have learned nothing from the extraordinary opportunity we lost for a more peaceful world at the Cold War’s end. We are now repeating those expansionary designs in Asia, and “thus we continue to drift towards unparalleled catastrophe” as Albert Einstein observed when we split the atom which “changed everything save man’s mode of thinking”.
     
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  3. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    Yup, everyone can see that USA is turning the gun point to China now
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The US is succeeding in encircling China!
     
  5. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    This should be the last straw, in their long history, they have waged many a war, got dragged into some and slyly created conditions for war in many places of the world. I am sure, the world would be a more balanced and relatively calmer place if US was forcefully denuclearised by other nations of the world. Their time is over, they cannot force their will on every country on earth. It is unfortunate that the 'greatest democracy on earth' fails to understand the concept of soverignity of other nations. The self appointed guardians of the world should go.
    At first it was USSR, Now its China, am sure one day it will be India's turn too. It is time the world powers snipped the wings of USA.
     
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  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Snipping the wings of the USA is a pipedream.
     
  7. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    No one said that it is easy, but it is not impossible neither is it a 'pipedream'. You see, there are two perspectives to everything. The idealistic one and the pragmatic one. What most of us fail to realise is that both views enforce each other and are not necessarily opposing. Sure, prima facie, it can be said that punishing the US is a stuff of dreams, but think about it a bit, how does US influence others in the first place? With force. Economic primarily backed up by Military force.
    If we gradually start rejecting all things US, starting from culture to buying their bonds and ultimately refrain from buying their BS rhetoric about the their 'Threats to US' from all parts of the world, they will start losing their influence. Defiance is better than slavish resignation and I hope you recognise this truth of life.
    I hope the world sees this middle path between pragmatic kissing of US soles and idealist holding of sovereign heads, high.
     
  8. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Trying to "export democracy" as the US is actively trying to do is in itself undemocratic, and as unwise as Hitler trying to Aryanise Europe. It is for soveriegn nations to decide which system they chose, it is not America's duty. Both the US and the SU were wrong in trying to ifluence nations to chose their systems.



    As for China, I believe in following the status quo until the average Chinese citizen is as well off as the average Japanese citizen. We've all seen the current system's ability to rapidly raise people out of poverty. I mean if you compare China and India, they were roughly peers around the and 60's and 70's in economic terms. But then look at them today. China's economy is almost 4 times larger than India's, and its average citizen is much much better off than an average citizen in India, despite them being comparable in population terms. It seems that China's Communism with "Capitalist Characteristics" is far better at improving standards of life than India's democracy.
     
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  9. Arunpillai

    Arunpillai Regular Member

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    i guess we'd rather be free and poor than be rich and under communist dictatorship rule..
     
  10. lemontree

    lemontree Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Thats the crap they teach you in CPP schools?
    ,
     
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  11. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is the reality, buddy. We can see it wth our own eyes.

    Do we need more China VS India threads to augment your impression on that reality?
     
  12. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    And who says I'm not free? I didn't know China was under dictatorship either.. I guess that's the default excuse for poor leadership in India: We're free, so it doesn't matter that almost 40% of the population lives under the poverty line.
     
  13. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    1.They already Are..
    2. The are not very popular among them either..
     
  14. The enlightened

    The enlightened Regular Member

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    The point is it is unlikely that communism will ever work in India like it did in China.
     
  15. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Ideological warfare against democracy ?

    What is your definition of better? You mean to say well fed animals...???
     
  16. illusion8

    illusion8 Regular Member

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    The US need to take out the Pakistan factor to effectively blow china apart.
     
  17. Arunpillai

    Arunpillai Regular Member

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    so you say you are free. All right. Tomorrow, do yo dare go to Tiananmen square and hold a banner that says "WE WANT DEMOCRACY"? Day after tomorrow, if you'r still here, i'd agree you are free.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No contest.

    The only thing I think is that to ignore the US and bring it to its knees, we have to be economically and military strong too!

    US is not just US. It is the joint will of US and Europe.

    That is where the military and economic might is, assisted by the lackeys in the Middle East!
     
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Of course you are free.

    You are free, till of late, not to have more than one child.

    You are free not to write articles or express views that are against the CCP and the policies of the Chinese Govt.

    And one could go on!
     
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  20. Soorya Dhanush

    Soorya Dhanush Regular Member

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    OHHH is it ????

    I heard you people cannot own land ? Because all land belongs to govt ?? Is it true.. ?
    Lucky me i am indian...I have my own land back home....At least can i be proud of that for that matter.. ??? Yes i think so..:cool2:
    You are living under the false light my dear friend.
    If this is what you think is the better living standards..thank you i am happy with what i have now..that is in india....:rofl:
     
  21. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why do Indians on this forum insist on attacking every post they dont like, regardless of authenticity? China's per capita GDP is $5184, that's comparable to Thailand's, despite the fact that we have around a billion more people than they do. Whilst India's, on the other hand, is $1527, that's less than Nigeria's. So basically, India is Nigeria with a billion more people in terms of standard of living. The average Chinese citizen's standard of living, is over 3 times better than his Indian counterpart, relative to cost of living. And second, over the last two decades, China has pulled hundreds of millions of its people from below the poverty line, whilst in India:


    "BBC News - 'More poor' in India than Africa" BBC News - 'More poor' in India than Africa



    So no my friend, fact, not "crap" as you so eloquently put it.



    You misunderstand me. I wasn't recomending communism for India, or trying to offend. I was making a comparison between two countries of comparable populations that follow two different systems, to illustrate why I think communism is the best way forward for China, and why the US should stop meddling in sovereign nation's matters in blatant attempts to make the "democratic". I for one, do not want my country to become another "democratic" Iraq or Afghanistan. If China IS to become democratic(that's code for more chaotic) in the future, let it be so AFTER our GDP per capita is ATLEAST between that of South Korea and Japan, no less.
     

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