Egyptians, Jordanians hold anti-peace rallies

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Nonynon, May 13, 2011.

  1. Nonynon

    Nonynon Regular Member

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    Cairo protestors burn Israeli flags, chant 'millions of martyrs marching to Jerusalem' ahead of upcoming Palestinian 'Nakba Day'; Jordanian demonstrators demand end to peace treaty with Israel, expulsion of envoy

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    Egyptians, Jordanians hold anti-peace rallies - Israel News, Ynetnews
     
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  3. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Not doing themselves any favours..
     
  4. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    They will again get their asses kicked by Israel and become like failed state pakistan the shameless beggar-terrorist nation that getting raped by america each day! :)
     
  5. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think its a bit disengenous to refer in such a way that ALL Egyptians and Jordanians are calling for anti-peace rallies. There might be extreme protesters but the Nakhba Day - meaning catastrophe - is a commeration day when Palestinians were forced out of their land in 1948. Its estimated to be around 700,000 Palestinians back then and most of these people continue to live in refugee camps even today. Naturally it evicts intese emotions for people there.

    Infact, there are many Israelis that recognise this and feel that this commeration should be made by Israelis as well to build bridges. Its another story that Israel has banned commeration of Al Nakhba.

    For those who don't know, readup on Nakhba Day -commerated on May 15 pretty much around the world on wikipedia here Nakba Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Here is an opinion piece by a Jewish author on this.
    Israel should remember Nakba day | Rachel Shabi | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
    Life for Palestinian citizens of Israel, always a testing experience, seems to be getting more precarious of late. This is a section of society that, since Israel's creation, spent 20-odd years under direct military rule and thereafter continued to be treated as second rate and a potential fifth column. Recently, Arab-Israelis, the identity-blurring label for this 20% sector of the population, have had to contend with threats that they must swear loyalty to a Jewish and Zionist state as a precondition of citizenship. Now, Israel's ministerial committee has approved a draft law that would ban the commemoration of Nakba day in Israel. The day marks the dispossession of some 700,000 to 800,000 Palestinians who fled or were forced out of their homes in 1948. Arab-Israelis remember Nakba day with demonstrations in Israel – but if the proposed law goes through parliament, such action would result in a three-year prison sentence.

    Fortunately, many voices within Israel have slammed the proposed bill as absurd and dangerous. Campaigners, rights groups, leftwing politicians and organisations such as the New Israeli Fund have swiftly issued condemnation, counter-argument and petitions. Some Israelis have used the words "Nuremburg laws" and "thought crime" to describe the Nakba bill. And commentators in the Israeli press have pointed out the unconstitutional hazards of such a law.

    All of which is encouraging. But it is countered by an absolutist current within Israel, predicated on an "us or them" rationale and finding its spiritual home with foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman's party Israel Beiteinu – proponents of the Nakba bill. By definition, this style of thought does not tolerate the idea that history might be of totally different import to two different peoples. Ha'aretz writers are not necessarily proponents of such logic (in fact a Ha'aretz editorial condemned the proposed Nakba bill), but there is a taste of it in the paper's headline for an article on the subject: "Israel moves closer to banning mourning of its independence."

    This seems like an unnecessarily loaded way in which to define commemoration of Nakba day. Palestinians aren't mourning Israeli independence, but rather Palestinian dispossession and displacement. The tears aren't triggered by the idea of a Jewish state or by Jewish self-determination, but rather by the suffering and turmoil caused when historical events forced Palestinians out of their homes, off their lands and into refugee-status limbo. That might sound to some like a gratuitous distinction, but it's one that ensures both people's narratives get the space to speak, neither one threatened by the other.

    "Give an inch and they'll take a mile," is a common Israeli take on the Palestinian issue – applied to negotiation, de-occupation and the necessity of overpowering the perceived enemy with military force. It's virtually an embedded thought process: question certain historical points and the response is all too often knee-jerk: if we hadn't done that, we wouldn't have a state. It's a rapid acceleration, from discussion to absolute decree; a conversation culture that seems practically totalitarian in the lack of space it leaves for divergent voices. And it is precisely such rigidity that propels the quest to negate the Nakba – the worry being that admitting to any part of this story would cause the Jewish state to suddenly collapse.

    But it won't. It can't. Accommodating another people's history – not resolutely rejecting it – is the real show of strength and security. Israelis don't have to subscribe to every syllable of the Palestinian side of the story, but they do need to respect the Palestinian right to have a history and a narrative. That's the cornerstone of reconciliation: acknowledge the other person's experience, apologise and find a mutually acceptable form of recompense. Doing the opposite – blocking your ears, shouting "Liar! Liar!" and using the law to impose silence – only causes anger, hatred, violence and, inevitably, more suppression and more solutions premised on force and the dissolution of democratic rights. Or, to put it another way: as long as Israel keeps trying to erase Palestinian history, it is Israelis, not Palestinians, who are jeopardising the Jewish state.
     
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  6. Nonynon

    Nonynon Regular Member

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    I don't have time to read the whole opinion peace but looking at it's source it looks quit fishy if I may say so.
    And I also dont have much time to look into the link but from experience I can say wiki is extremely bias and filled with half truths and often even lies when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict so I advice to careful when reading it.

    As for the rest of it:
    Nekaba day is about more then mourning being forced out of Israel, it's about mourning the existence of Israel. Personally I think marking that day should be seen as nothing less then treason. The Israeli Arab community is far richer then any other any other of the Arab communities living with no oil, and even richer then some that do. Hell, they don't even pay their taxes or serve like everyone else in the army except for a small minority of them. However they do get paid by the government, both personal social help and communal funding. That's why their such an economic burden to the Israeli economic growth.

    For some backround on how the Arabs where pushed out of Israel:
    In Israel's war of independence, securing the roads was the key to victory. Jewish villages had Arab villages in between that ambushed and destroyed convoys trying to supply them (Arabs getting massive British support is noteworthy, as well as former Nazi German Officer volunteers). Jerusalem itself was under heavy siege because of the large number of Arab villages and cities blocking any possible way for aid. Attempts to break such sieges was extremely risky and a lot of soldiers died attempting it. Mean while Arabs continued to raid Jewish settlements and massacre anyone they could, taking little or no prisoners. It was then decided that in order to secure the roads and a possible chance for a Jewish country that those Arab are to be deported out of the country and the front lines. Some where actually given an option to stay (like the Haifa Arab communities) but they thought the Jews are going to lose the war so they fled in fear of being marked traitors would they stay. The general Arab plan was to massacre most of the Jews and Arab 'traitors', force Europe to take in the rest and then to maybe keep the remaining 5-10%. And this was only 2 years after the holocaust.
    So yes, some of them where deported and the rest grow to be 20% of the Israeli population, it was necessary and it was a lot nicer then what the Arabs had in mined if they won. As for Arab Israelis, they are still considered traitors by a lot, if not most of the international Arab communities. The Palestinian 'refugee camps' are nothing less then ways for Arabs around Israel to focus more hatred on Israel by not excepting them in just like Israel excepted in all the million of Jews who lived in Arab countries but where forced out and came to Israel.
    Personally I've read a lot into that war, if someone is interested here's a good book: 1948: The First Arab Israeli War

    BTW, I never heard about anything like the Nekaba day for the millions of non Arab Sudanese that got deported and massacre a short while ago, or for any of the other minorities getting forced out in ethnic cleansing in the modern Arab world.

    Edit: Fergot to mention the Nekaba day riots are planed for tommorow. Riots already started in some parts and about 20-30 are reported injured and one killed. However the killed person (a 17 year old kid) was shot by a pistol not owned by Israeli security forces so it could either be an angery settler or the kid stated with some tough guy's girl. What was it, we may never know because the family had taken the body away for burial before any further research on it so the Arab street is convinced it was Israeli security forces and their anger is only fueled harder by it.
    So far the riots have hit only East Jerusalem and some West bank cities and there was already an attempted to break into a Jewish home living in an Arab neighborhood. Can't help but think of what would have happened if they would have managed to get in...
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2011
  7. Nonynon

    Nonynon Regular Member

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    Arabs neighboring Israel are trying to infiltrate all day. Some even did it, 4 where shot to death. About 20 injuries by Israeli fire on Gazan 'protests' trying to get into Israel. In most cases the protests include hurling stones at the Israeli police or Israeli soldiers, some Molotov cocktails and in some cases even shooting. Some driver killed an Israeli in Tel Aviv and injured about 14 others in a road rampage - probably a terror attack but not confirmed yet.

    Overall this is the strongest and most violent Nekaba day seen in a long time.

    For more, plenty of articles can be read on Israel News: Ynetnews
     
  8. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    @Nonynon

    Let me put it this way.

    I fully agree on Israel's right to exist and also agree that Israel has the right to defend itself if its existence is threatened.

    But what I am saying is that to deny over 700,000 Palestinians natives were uprooted and made refugees in Palestine is not correct. It doesn't mean Israel should accept all these refugees back alongwith their children which probably now number in the millions. But there should be token acknowledgement that this happened when Israel came into existence.

    If the protests turn violent or bombings take place e.t.c that is condemnable. But that still doesn't mean the underlying reason for the protests or the day of commemoration is wrong.

    For example, in Kashmir about 400,000-500,00 pandits were uprooted from their native place in 1992 and these Hindu refugees and their conditions still evoke strong emotions from the rest of the population whenever the Kashmir solution/talks come about. This is despite the fact that the pandits have the right to return to their homeland and only providing adequate security is the main issue. And still some pandit organisation commemorate "martyrs day" to remember those victims who died and symbolic day to remember when forced migration took place.

    I'm not saying the Israeli govt. should participate in the Nakhba commemoration. But there was no reason to ban it. And if the protests get rowdy and out of hand and rioting takes place; then Israeli police has the full rights to tackle the rowdy mobs as any other mob violence situation.

    And atleast from recent coverage, it looks like although the Nakhba day protests are larger, they are quieter than previous years. Probably an affect of the non-violent mass agitations Egypt style
    E. J'lem ‘Nakba Day’ protests ‘quieter’ than expected
     
  9. Nonynon

    Nonynon Regular Member

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    Well if that was all there is to it I would have no problem with it but like I said, Nekaba day is about more then mourn for those refugees, its about mourning the mere existence of Israel.
    I'm not so sure they where quieter then expected. Maybe the east Jerusalem ones where but in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza thousands tried to infiltrate Israel and only extreme restraint managed not to get much people killed. But it's worth mentioning that the Lebanese army are reported to have opened fire on the protestors, probably in order to injure and kill people so that the Arab anger will be turned to Israel instead of their own governments.
     

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