Edward Snowden sees 'no chance' for fair trial in US

Discussion in 'Americas' started by pmaitra, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Edward Snowden sees 'no chance' for fair trial in US

    Source: Edward Snowden sees 'no chance' for fair trial in US - The Times of India
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Source: US hints at Edward Snowden plea bargain to allow return from Russia | World news | The Guardian
     
  4. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    No surprise there. The US is a fascist state, and not very liveable generally. I hope Russia grants permanent asylum to the poor guy.
     
  5. Free Karma

    Free Karma Senior Member Senior Member

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    People should dharna in front of the white house for him. This guy has done them a massive favour and revealed some pretty serious stuff.
     
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  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    The American people need to take power back in their hands. A referendum should decide Snowden's fate, not Eric Holder, et al..
     
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  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, this government, and the previous ones too, have been engaging in unconstitutional activities all along.

    Also, what is this "classified" nonsense? What does, "I have evidence, but it is classified," mean? Just show the evidence, and let the people decide whether it is classified or not!
     
  8. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I don't think power was ever in the hands of the people in the true sense, and certainly not after the world wars.
    And this "I have evidence, but it is classified" trick has been used several times in the past half century. It is only now that the general public is getting more exposure to such hypocrisy in the "Land of the Free...".
    And Snowden better not go back to the US (or any country with which the US has an extradition treaty), his life will be limited to the confines of four walls, just like Manning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
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  9. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    India should have provided him asylum. :tsk:
     
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  10. JMM99

    JMM99 Regular Member

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    Re: Indian diplomat arrested, handcuffed in US for visa fraud

    @pmaitra

    Thank you for the Snowden thread. Quid pro quo is only fair - and, since you are in North Carolina, you will be interested in this SWC thread, "We are all honorary Muslims now" with PRISM?.

    The thread deals with Snowden on the first page; then goes quickly on to the NSA metadata programs. I think we at SWC are doing a pretty good job of covering that story - we have a huge amount of links to what Snowden leaked and to what NSA has voluntarily and involuntarily released in pages 2-5; as well as the reports and cases which are developing pro and con the programs.

    As to Snowden, I don't care what he does or what happens to him - he can spend the rest of his life in Putin's garden and eventually be buried next to our friend Kim Philby - or cremated in Cuba like Philip Agee.

    I also don't care what Snowden says; he is either a conman or was an agent in place.

    I do listen to what Bill Binney says - Google William Binney (Wiki);

    spend 90 min.

    Youtube

    and learn a great deal.

    Read our posts and judge our positions on the NSA.

    Regards

    Mike
     
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  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Skeletons popping out of US' closet

    Edward Snowden, the man who gave up his job, his family, and his partner, and ended up in Russia, has a lot of fans, and detractors. Some stand by him as a hero, while some call him a traitor. To each his own.

    In this backdrop, one must look at what is going on in the US. This précis will present some facts, and some speculations, and will leave it up to the reader to pick a side.

    On the 4th Amendment

    The National Security Agency, or NSA, has been accused of "unreasonable search," and was declared probably unconstitutional by federal judge Richard J. Leon, who remarked, “Surely, such a program infringes on ‘that degree of privacy’ that the founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment.” Not surprisingly, another federal judge, William H. Pauley III, declared that, "While robust discussions are underway across the nation, in Congress, and at the White House, the question for this Court is whether the Government's bulk telephony metadata program is lawful. This Court finds it is."

    So, which judge is correct? That, is the question.

    Either we accept that there is a constant threat of terror attacks and NSA must be allowed to do what it has been doing, or accept that there is little evidence that NSA has helped prevent terror attacks and is actually used for industrial espionage, causing US companies to lose trust, and eventually, business.

    On the 2nd Amendment

    There has been a concerted effort to portray guns as the single biggest evil in the US today. CNN has also roped in a charming British journalist, Piers Morgan (pronounced: Pie's Mo'gan or "mow-gun" if you will) to champion the cause of the anti-gun lobby. While Piers Morgan has managed to garner much popularity, ended up being almost physically threatened by Alex Jones, he has also been accused on "standing on the graves of the Sandy Hook" victims by Ben Shapiro, a pro-gun activist.

    So, what is this hullabaloo about? Should we limit guns? Are we going in the right direction? Looking at the recent unfortunate events, that seems so. However, historically, the US is going the opposite way.

    The American independence came about as a result of non-conventional armed struggle between Americans and the regime forces of the British government, along with their American loyalists, and the success can be largely attributed to the balance of firepower that the two warring sides had - they both had muskets. Thus, when it came to writing the Constitutions, it was observed that it offered no protection from a tyrannical regime the freedom fighters had just defeated. "Attacking the proposed Constitution for its vagueness and lack of specific protection against tyranny, Patrick Henry asked the Virginia convention, 'What can avail your specious, imaginary balances, your rope-dancing, chain-rattling, ridiculous ideal checks and contrivances.'" The story goes on, but let us look at the current scenario. If one were to ensure the same balance as the freedom fighters enjoyed against the then British regime, should the Americans not be allowed to own the very weapons the government has in its disposal? Yes, the ordinary citizens should be allowed to own rifles with standard magazines, including drum magazines, fully automatic assault rifles, sub-machine-guns, machine-guns, sniper and anti-materiel rifles, RPGs, Carl Gustav type RCLs, . . . , and anything that an individual can feasibly own and operate, and don't let this surprise you, it includes fighter jets as well.

    To return to a realistic chime, one should consider the path shown by Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Mandela, i.e., the path of non-violence as a tool against tyranny. The only problem with these great men's philosophy is the lack of the option to use violence. That is where one needs to rope in the philosophy of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. While non-violence should always be the first option, it would be unwise to exclude violence as an option.

    On the 6th Amendment

    Holding prisoners in a place that is not a war-zone and is under American control, and denying them trial, not telling them what the charges against them are, and not allowing them to see and know who their accuser should be unconstitutional. It has been argued, that it also violates the 5th Amendment and the 8th Amendment. Exception has been made, but concerns remain.

    On the 1st Amendment

    The US is generally a free country and allows everyone to express themselves freely. However, the recent prosecution of Dinesh D'Souza might suggest that the government will use any means it can to stifle any opposition to the government, and not let the Constitution come in the way of the larger scheme of things. This isn't the first time such concerns have been raised. The Internal Revenue Service has come under scrutiny on suspicions that it was being used by the government in politically motivated targeting of people.

    Whistleblowers' character assassination

    We have seen this with Julian Assange, as he was accused of sexual impropriety. Now, Edward Snowden is being, in a not so explicit way, shown as a possible Russian spy. Where is the evidence? "Well, it is classified," seems to be the only answer.

    Why is the government offering plea bargains, when it is one of the parties accused of violation of the people's right? Will the government acquiesce to a referendum on whether Snowden should be given clemency? This seems to be the most logical way out.

    A quasi-hijacking

    US Ambassador to Austria, William Eacho, the brainchild behind this "hijacking," used all the finesses he could muster, by getting the Bolivian President's private jet to be denied entry in France, Spain, and Italy, and having it searched in Vienna, Austria. Austria, being a subservient spineless forgettable European country, could only bow down to the "master," do the bidding, in gross violation of International Law, as well as the basic decorum required in the comity of nations. According to an article in The Guardian, UK, "In revealing a vast Orwellian police state apparatus servicing history's greatest war-making machine, they illuminate the true extremism of the 21st century. Unprecedented, Germany's Der Spiegel has described the Obama administration as 'soft totalitarianism.' If the penny is falling, we might all look closer to home."

    Marijuana, the new cool thing

    Colorado and Washington (the state) have taken steps to gradually legalize, in a controlled fashion, marijuana use. Obama has gone on to equate that with drinking alcohol.

    Putting it all together

    So, we have curbs on freedom of speech, curbs on right to a free, fair, and speedy trial, a neutering of the American people by taking away their guns, unreasonable and warrant-less search, and seizure without the possibility of habeas corpus petitions, and the willingness to take extreme steps, even if it means endangering the life of the president of another country, allowing the people easier access to intoxicating agents, hitherto legally and socially unacceptable.

    The excellent speech by William Binney (above post) only demonstrates and accentuates the fear that the government, regardless of the party it claims to represent, will always do the bidding of the large corporations, and by extension, will go to war for these corporations, and will also violate the rights of its own citizens for these corporations.

    It appears that the government is anticipating an uprising, and not wanting a "well regulated militia" rising up in arms against what it might perceive as a "tyrannical regime," the government wants to take away the guns, keep the young people busy with marijuana (the inebriate won't fight for a cause) and thus off the streets and from protesting, demonstrate the promise of retribution in the event of criticism of the government, and the resolve to hold people under detention indefinitely. The recent court judgments in favour of the government on issues where so many people have been skeptical about the government raises questions about the Judiciary. Is it really independent?

    Famous and relevant quotes

    "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - John Emerich Edward Dalberg
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson
    "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." - Gordon Hewart

    [HR][/HR]

    @JMM99, @ladder, @Adux, @Known_Unknown, @W.G.Ewald
     
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  12. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    A couple of things.

    Snowden has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. I'm guessing the committee will award it to him.

    Snowden might have accomplished what he intended without going to China and Russia.

    (What is the source of the above article? Was it written by pmaitra?)
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, it is my original content, in response to this comment below, which I had promised to respond to, explaining why I am a cynic:

     
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  14. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    That's right, when compared to other developed countries, the US fares poorly in terms of "livability". Canada is so much better in almost every way.
     
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  15. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    Snowden (2015)
    [​IMG]

    CIA employee Edward Snowden leaks thousands of classified documents to the press.
     
  16. Prometheus

    Prometheus Regular Member

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    Well I personally believe the people have NEVER been in power EVER!. Its only after the French revolution that the Monarchs and people in power understood that being in an authoritative position can be dangerous too, if the people revolt. So these guys adopted the concept of democracy, where they still remain in power and people are fooled into believing that THEY are the ones who elected these people into power, and hence avert a revolution. The choice is either Pepsi or Coke, well both are one and the same thing, it dosent really matter

    The last independent US president was JFK, ever since he, his brother Robert and his son were eliminated, the US. has been a slave to the American Military and Industrial complex. People thing that their smart phones and internet are here to serve the people and are tools of freedom, but actually these are tools of control and enslavement. If these were truly tools of freedom, the US would have NEVER let them reach the public!. Cell phones are used to monitor people. They can be tracked and can listen to conversation, with or without a SIM. The NSA have complete control over us. In spite of knowing this, we still cant live a life without the cell phone or the Internet. We have become slaves to technology.

    Today we have the knowledge and information that we need, but we simply don't want to get outside our comfort zone. We know about 9/11, Ukrainian war and the Iraq war, but there is no one on the streets. If this were the 70's or 80's, people would be protesting all over the world. But sadly today people don't care and don't want to miss their clubbing session.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015

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