Economics of Diplomacy and Intelligence

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by HariPrasad-1, May 3, 2016.

  1. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Securing National interest is vital. The huge amount we spend on maintaining the army buying and producing the high tech equipment is just to secure national interest. Any country spends a big chunk of its revenue on defense just to safeguard their country and their interest inside and outside their country. Can't this amount be spend on fighting the poverty and feeding the hungry stomachs? Can't this amount be used for educating the youth and developing the skills of young ones? Can't we use this huge amount to better the life of people and any other goals bringing happiness to the life of people?

    Why even the defense spending gets priority over such burning national issues of Hunger, health and education? It May be because it is more vital than any of above. Perhaps, all your educations, good health and posh leaving standard have no meaning without the people being secure. Securing the country from internal and external enemies is most important of all and that cannot be compromised. You can enjoy all your fruition and well being in secured environment only. We have to pursue these goals even at the cost of hunger or poverty or education.


    Now the question to be asked here is whether the national interest is so vital and if cannot be compromised and should be pursued at the cost of any other important goal than can we find any other way by which the above interest can be secured at minimum cost? Is there any other way by which we can secure our national interest more cost effectively and divert this vital amount for the betterment of masses and achieving hunger free and poverty free country? We must explore the ways and means of safeguarding the securities and national interest more cost effectively.


    This is the economics of security. Economics is nothing but a choice of allocating the scarce resources to fulfill unlimited wants. In Economics we find the new and effective ways of allocating the scares resource to satisfy our need to the highest extent in resource constrains. Now what can be these ways? What can be substitutes of huge defense spending to safeguard our national interest of internal and external security? Human being has tried to find the answers. In this journey of exploring the ways, human being have discovered two most important are among many others and they are diplomacy and intelligence. These arts are practiced by politicians and diplomats very effectively.


    Let me starts with a real scenario of recent past. China, in order to expand its influence in Indian ocean to devised a strategy named string of pearls. They strategy was aimed at encircling India by building good relations with small Indian neighbors by helping them economically and in return get some strategic advantages of allowing Chinese ground forces naval vessels to use their ports and land and park their submarines in vicinity of India on the shore of these small nations such as Maldives, Srilanka, Myanmar, Maldives and Pakistan. Now naturally Indian government has to take some counter measure and it devised a counter strategy to counter china. They Iron curtain strategy was devised. It had a philosophy of building a robust naval fleet to counter china in Indian ocean. India need a huge hardware to deter the china and safeguard its interest in Indian ocean.

    In 2014, government changed and Modi came to power. He adopted the act east policy and pursue it with a great aggression. He stated his diplomacy with the visit to Bhutan followed by all neighboring countries particularly which were on the card of china to encircle India. BD gave India right to park her naval ships at the Bangladesh port. Maldives declared that they will not do anything which may harm Indian interest. New government of Srilank is lot friendlier than the previous one. He visited Mauritius and india put its maritime Radar in this small island nation to monitor the traffic of Indian ocean. Modi's action gave a big blow to Chinese string of pearl. Here no huge military hardware is required. no conflict, no face of, no angry exchange of statements but the net result is the desolation of string of pearls. Now compare the resource we would have required to counter china by the way of Iron curtain.
    Now, I would like to draw an attention of another incident of chinese incursion in the time of UPA. Salman khurshid traveled to china to pursue them to withdraw and made lots of compromises. Now, some time back chinese did the same mischief. They came in and build a watch tower. Indian troop went there and destroyed it. Massage was well conveyed to china. This is the power of diplomacy.
    Take the another example of the power of Diplomacy. Modi visited Middle east. He improved the relationship and the Pakistani friends Arabs issued a clear statement that state sponsored Terrorism against India is not acceptable to them. UAE dumped Pakistan. Saudi drift away from Pakistan. Now they are considering to reduce Pakistanis workers substantially from their country. Now count the damage done to our enemy by this diplomatic move and punch delivered without spending any money.

    Now let me come to intelligence. Had you people read the news some time back that because of sabotage of foreign funded NGOS, GDP growth took a blow of 1%. this is the power of sabotage. Now imagine if we exercise offensive strategy to protect our interest and go to war with Pakistan or china. It has lots of constrains and it is very costly. Any aircraft loss will cost us between 200 to 1000 crore. On the other hand many works Intelligence agencies can accomplish very cost effectively by the way of sabotage, subversion and influencing the policy of enemy and defaming them on international arena or even by soft power. Pakistan is a classical example. In an endeavor to harm India by covert means, it has failed very badly . Her strategy has proved to be totally counter productively and it has harmed Pakistan many more time than it heart India. It has lost its credibility completely and they are treated like dogs everywhere. I heard a discussion on Paksitn TV. They were discussing that what will be the status of Pakistan by 2050 when Indian economy shall be 40 to 50 times bigger than the Pakistan. We can easily destabilize them and keep them in that position for few years. And it will cost them very hard. They will be marginalized economically and loose its importance. Now this can be done by using intelligence instead of a direct war. As Ajit doval had said, You do a Mumbai and you loose Baluchistan. No war is involved. No collateral damage.

    Now take the example of china. They were successful in challenging US just by having few old bulky 180 ton so called ICBMS. It happened because they knew very well that even with such a Marginal military power compared to US, US dare not go to war with china. Do we need really Big ICBMS and many Nuclear bombs to counter china? In my opinion really not. What we need is some very good tactical weapons by which we can teach them a quick lesson and hit a psychological blow to them. Some highly targeted intelligence driven operations will demoralize them. We need some very quick boats and ultra light howitzers to be showcased on border to scare them. That will bring an end to this border gimmicks.

    What I want to argue here is that we can achieve our objectives of protecting our interest inside and outside more cost effectively, provided we focus more on diplomacy and intelligence. We must allocate more budget to our intelligence forces and we must deploy our best manpower to study the policies and diplomacy of our adversary so that we may devise a counter strategy and can protect our objectives in peaceful manner and at a very low cost without creating the tense atmosphere.
     
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    After losing Tibet ,Ladakh half of the subcontinent you believe defense is not a priority and India has diplomatic skills to stop spending ? One silly delusional article.


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  4. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    @HariPrasad-1
    Money matters a lot these days.
    Let India earn enough money in this and coming term.
    Then even Rajapakshe will listen to us.
    Economics of Diplomacy only work if we have enough muscle backed with money to scare people.
    Most of our neighbours are third world countries which are full of corrupted people.
    Rajapakshe or Nepali communists or even pak def. Officials. You name them, they can be bought with enough money.
    Heck even our own people are corrupted to core.
    Let Indians start earning money without resorting to shortcuts. Then the corruption falls. We can then flex our muscle a lot.

    Hope I made sense.
    P.S. India sucks at diplomacy.
     
  5. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The half of the laddakh was not lost due to only lack of weapon but also due to some other reason and blunders of naheru and his unwillingness to use airforce and his bull shit diplomacy of non allignment and his unwillingnwss to accept US help. Rest this here. It is a long discussion.
     
  6. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I want answers of some simple questions.

    Has our economic standing increased substantially in last 2 years?
    Have we become more powerful substentially in last 2 years?

    What are the factors whch have made us stand strongly against china?
    What are the factors by which we have been able to marginalize Pakistan in last 2 years?
    What are the factors by which our neighbors cooperates with us better than ever before?
    Whay have we been able to forge a strong ties with eastern nation better than ever before? We have our Radars and satellite stations in Vietnam and maritius ?

    Are these factors military might , economic might or diplomacy?

    @Yusuf, @Navnit Kundu
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
  7. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    Those achievements have nothing to do with economy or growth rateor diplomacy.
    Modi-Doval work is more like Street fighter diplomacy.
    We are still not able to make any significant progress with first world countries.
    Heck even China is showing us middle finger time to time.
    Your favoured type of diplomacy only works if we are super rich and powerful.
    We are kind of restricted to the third world neighbours only.
     
  8. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Wrong china used to show us middle finger very of and on but now we have shtarted showing them middle finger.
    Diplomacy always work whether you are rich or poor. However it should be as per your strength. Srilank can have a diplomacy of US. But by appropriate diplomacy, We can achieve a lot. I have quoted above incidents.
    Our Diplomacy has put left its marks every where from SL to US.

    Diplomacy is such a nice thing that if exercise properly, It can give you a lot which would otherwise take a very big effort and huge resource to achieve.
     
  9. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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  10. Superdefender

    Superdefender Regular Member

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    When we have enough wealth and power in future, then forget China; we can even destabilise entire North American region (playing the same game which US had historically played to break Asia). If we play our dice good, then we can enable Canada, Mexico and US against each other; breaking their bonds. But world politics and diplomatic shots have to be just perfect.
     
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  11. Superdefender

    Superdefender Regular Member

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    When we have enough wealth and power in future, then forget China; we can even destabilise entire North American region (playing the same game which US had historically played to break Asia). If we play our dice good, then we can enable Canada, Mexico and US against each other; breaking their bonds. But world politics and diplomatic shots have to be just perfect.
     
  12. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    Can you show me the mark we left on USA?
    I swear I read some where in this forum about amerika gifting pak some F-16s just 5 mins ago.
     
  13. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes why not?

    We have entered into a new era of friendship. US has offered us a partnership in about 100 low tech defense stuff. They have offered to produce F 16 and F 18 here.

    Now you will say that US has some XYZ interest. Yes , I know. But diplomacy is an art of en-cashing our need to others. Every partnership has some interest and some potential. If exploited properly, there will be a win win situation situation. They need us so we should also try to exploit maximum out of this partnership. Look here,

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...s-india-discuss-anti-submarine-warfare.76326/
     
  14. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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  15. Ancient Indian

    Ancient Indian Unplugged Version Senior Member

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    Who initiated it?.
    Until we have upper hand in deal, we continue to be weak guy.
    I don't call it power of Indian diplomacy.
    America doing whatever it wants to, irrespective of regional sentiments. It irks people a lot.
     
  16. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is too much to expect a super power country to play a younger brother role.
    They have their interest and we have ours. The question to be asked here is that whether we can exploit our interest without sacrificing more than what we can get?
    We need to explore this potential. And potential exists.
     
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    The drought today in India is caused by the diversion of Brahmaputra waters in Tibet. Theft by China. Ladakh was a distraction.
    How would having less defense help in the future when all the water is stolen from Tibet? Just one example.


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  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Give me one example of an Indian diplomatic success past or recent where use of defense was prevented?


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  19. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Diplomacy will not let the time of using the force to come. We are not forced into a position where we have to use force and that is diplomacy. We rescued our citizens from each and crissis. Even from ISIS. These were the success of our intelligence and Diplomacy. Even US could not do that. I hail that though the people like you may undermine it.
     
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  20. adrenalin

    adrenalin Regular Member

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    actually incorrect. brahmaputrah flows into the bay of bengal, noting to do with drought in rest of india. wen brahmaputah is conected by river linking, rest of india have water too. new dams building by china might not be problem becoz northeast india gets too many rainfall and flood every year.
     
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  21. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly . I agree and that is exactly I want to argue here. We had a spine less government at that time which could not stand up to china and ask them to shut up. Now we are saying this. We have told china to remain away from POK. Had MM that guts to say that?

    China use to issue us warnings time to time but now they are on back foot. We are improving the ties with all enemies of china. We are aggressively exploring the oil from south china sea (Since MM time). Neither our economy is matching china now nor there is any substantial change in our military power. They only thing which has changed is the diplomacy. Actually your argument prove my point.
     
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