Early Mauryan temples discovered in Hardoi

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Shaitan

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Compare kshatriya castes of maharashtra with mahars and see the difference.


I will not assume that ancient indians were africans just because of ajanta paintings.

In india too we have pattern as in social hierarchy we see brahmins who are fairest on top followed by slight darker kshatriyas who are fairer than OBC castes and OBCs are fairer and ahead of ex untouchable castes.


Now do not tell me that SCs were kings of that time but brahmins were labourers.


you specialize in art history but i specialize in history and in case of brahmins we have clans and thus we are perfectly sure about how ancient brahmins looked.
I dont know how and when that all came about. But those paintings are how the ruling classes show/depict themselves AT THAT EXACT TIME. This is reality of the matter and there is no need for speculation.

And you have to be blind to think they're African.
 
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MAYURA

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Here is a picture from the inside of the Indian Parliament, with representation from all over the country (less than quorum is visible).



I think we should leave it up to the beholder whether he sees them as similar or different.
Yes we should leave it to beholder. again i agree with you.
 

pmaitra

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Obviously, I was talking about precious metals like gold and silver. Iron was seldom (ever?) used in India for making coins, though lead was.
I don't think Iron was used for coins, or if at all, rather rarely.

India had Silver and Copper coins. (Coinage of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Coming back to the supply of metals for coins, I think it is fair to say, the sources were both domestic as well as foreign.
 

MAYURA

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Forget the Kushans. The amount of coins found belonging to him is small compared even to regional satraps like Nahapana.
Nahpana has more silver coins than han dynasty so he becomes richer than han dynasty.

India never was a great source of metals. In the Kushan age, much of the metal used in making coins was imported. The Kushans acquired gold from Scythia and Transoxiana and silver and copper from Afghanistan. They also imported massive quantities of bullion from the Roman Empire in the course of their commercial dealings. The equivalent of 500 million sestertii worth of gold was being imported into India in the 1st century C.E. from the Roman Empire(see Intercourse between India and the Western World by H.G. Rawlinson, pg.103).
where are you contesting me? I did say it depends on metallic stock available to a dynasty and as the kushanas controlled zarafshan valley, it is proving my point.

Pliny complained of 100 million sestertii being exported to arabia, india an china so how do you get at 500 million figure?



Indian mathematics had almost zero practical usage. It was Arabs and especially Europeans who truly applied Indian mathematics and made the most out of the Indic numeral system. India was great at abstract mathematics but its engineering abilities were second-rate. Tell me what practical applications of these mathematics were made during Gupta period or later? What great inventions were made that could compare to Chinese or Greek inventions, let alone those of Renaissance Europe? I think Indian astronomy might have led to more precise calendars, which in turn led to more consistent agricultural yields. Besides this, I don't know what applications Indian astronomy was used for.
Gupta age Iron Pillar which compares to anything before 1750 in

1, being rust resistant

2. being forged of such height and weight .


Rest of your post does not take into account that advances in maths during gupta age that indian education was better in this period than other eras.

why is it that africa has no literature ? Because it was a hunter gatherer society and it shows general backwardness even though literature is useless.

similarly maths on its own is not useful but it shows general advancement of a society. If a society can produce an Aryabhatta, it is more advanced than a society producing nothing as the case was with kushan era where not a single maths text was produced.

BTW, chinese inventions too are useless as they do not make us wealthy.

How did chinese printing make chinese farmers wealthy? how did chinese gunpowder make them wealthy or even protected them as it is after invention of gunpowder that mongols swept chinese areas with masscres in millions.?

It is the end result that matters not the beginning arab maths was based on aryabhatta just as 19th century cannons owed a ;lot to song age gunpowder.
 

civfanatic

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Is this a joke???

Historically it's the Eastern Indians and Deccanese that were the imperial Indians. Northerners were ALWAYS getting screwed over and over and over again.
Not to mention that the greatest temple architecture and the greatest cave art and paintings (Ajanta, Karle, Kanheri, etc.) are in the Deccan and South and not North.

What North Indian empires in the 14th-16th centuries could match Vijayanagar in military, literature, arts, architecture, or any other metric?

Oh wait, there weren't any "North Indian empires" of that time! :rofl:
 

MAYURA

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What were the great brahmins of Gupta age doing with their knowledge of mathematics, actually?
Same as the chinese were doing with their printing. More books itself means a larger educated class and a larger educated class can only come into being if society is advanced. Why is that kushana age did not produce any mathematician ? because people did not have means to carry on education but were devoted to trade in order to survive.


Your thesis of kushana age being most prosperous is wrong as it is based on trade which constituted only 10 percent of overall GDP of india atmost.

on the other hand, we have evidence for greater expansion of agricultural into bengal, orissa, andhra, whole deccan in gupta and post gupta era.

the real golden age of india was from 400 ad to 1200 ad when the achievements of india were genuinely its own rather than some greek or persian.
 

Shaitan

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Not to mention that the greatest temple architecture and the greatest cave art and paintings (Ajanta, Karle, Kanheri, etc.) are in the Deccan and South and not North.

What North Indian empires in the 14th-16th centuries could match Vijayanagar in military, literature, arts, architecture, or any other metric?

Oh wait, there weren't any "North Indian empires" of that time! :rofl:


Lmao, you cant find shit from North India back then(Archaeology wise). I dont know WTF they were doing. In the 2nd-3rd century Hellenic-Gandhara art was exploding and you can find coins, statues, etc, etc. But was result of stability created by guess who? Outsiders.

And that area of Pakistan/North India was screwed so many god damn times.

The Deccan and East India were the ones consistently producing the finest Indian empires, architecture, etc.
 

MAYURA

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Not to mention that the greatest temple architecture and the greatest cave art and paintings (Ajanta, Karle, Kanheri, etc.) are in the Deccan and South and not North.

What North Indian empires in the 14th-16th centuries could match Vijayanagar in military, literature, arts, architecture, or any other metric?

Oh wait, there weren't any "North Indian empires" of that time! :rofl:

You people are just superstitious.

The cave paintings only represent those paintings which were done in caves and since north lacks caves, it is understandable that north would not possess these.
WE have some 27 caves so should we conclude that it is the whole ancient indians painted?

BTW, the canons of painting were laid down in north by vatsyayan in his kamasutra.



AS for temple architecture, we all know that everything in north was destroyed and this comment of yours on lack of temples only shows your shallowness.

Kanchipuram has 100s of temples of pre 1200 ad wheras my home city has none despite being holiest city. anyway, temple architecture itself was learnt by south india from north.

I can show you gupta gold coins, gupta literature, etc. from ancient india which closes at 650 ad. what you can show from south in similar timeframe?



You talked about north indian empires.

in what way khilji empire, tughlaq empire were behind Vijaynagar.

their architecture, literature, histriography are much greater than vijaynagar empire.
 

Shaitan

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Are they even caves??? They're artificial caves created by the artist.


It looks like a cliff which they cut through, painting on, made reliefs inside, etc.




 

MAYURA

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Lmao, you cant find shit from North India back then(Archaeology wise). I dont know WTF they were doing. In the 2nd-3rd century Hellenic-Gandhara art was exploding and you can find coins, statues, etc, etc. But was result of stability created by guess who? Outsiders.
You are just a buddhist art historian and nothing more.

did you forget qutub minar, tughlaq empire, khilji empire and gujarati mosques?

Have you seen them? they are better than any south indian temples.

In 16th century we have mughal architecture.


And that area of Pakistan/North India was screwed so many god damn times.

The Deccan and East India were the ones consistently producing the finest Indian empires, architecture, etc.

This is just because the modern day south indians dominate on fora like this.

Which south indian empire can be compared with Mauryan, Gupta, Sunga, kushana, khilji, tughlaq, mughal empires.?

which south indian architecture can match taj mahal and mughal art?
 

MAYURA

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Are they even caves??? They're artificial caves created by the artist.


It looks like a cliff which they cut through, painting, made reliefs inside, etc.
All this will not change that north lacks such hilly areas so we have no remains.

You are evading my question?

Did kushanas, Greeks, guptas were averse to painting.

read kalidas and you will find chitrasalas in towns.
 

Shaitan

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All this will not change that north lacks such hilly areas so we have no remains.

You are evading my question?

Did kushanas, Greeks, guptas were averse to painting.

read kalidas and you will find chitrasalas in towns.
Guptas, Greeks, or the Kushanas aren't North Indians.

Claim the British empire too.

did you forget qutub minar, tughlaq empire, khilji empire and gujarati mosques?
That's when you know when you have nothing. :rofl:

Which south indian empire can be compared with Mauryan, Gupta, Sunga, kushana, khilji, tughlaq, mughal empires.?
None of those are North Indians. Sungas, Guptas, Mauryas are East Indians. I have already said East Indians and Deccanese produced the best empires.
 
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MAYURA

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Guptas, Greeks, or the Kushanas aren't North Indians.

Claim the British empire too.
what? guptas not north indians? this is the biggest lie i have come across on this forum.


That's when you know when you have nothing.
are khilji empire, mughal empire, qutub minar not in north india?
 

Shaitan

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what? guptas not north indians?




are khilji empire, mughal empire, qutub minar not in north india?

You forgot the East India Company too.:laugh:


You always have to be invaded and teabagged on first. That's like the natural ritual.
 

MAYURA

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None of those are North Indians. Sungas, Guptas, Mauryas are East Indians. I have already said East Indians and Deccanese produced the best empires.
Look there is no such thing as east india and west india in any history books.

When i said north india it meant all indo aryan speaking region with exception of maharashtra.


read any book and you will find it. Even nepal is considered north indian as per civafanatic and he is right.

are you aware of any difference between eastern UP and bihar from where mauryas and guptas sprang? we are more culturally and racially similar than tamil nadu and andhra pradesh.
 

parijataka

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@MAYURA, N Indian empire of the Mauryas and Guptas i.e. of the Gangetic plains has been dead for 1500 years S India had the Cholas, Cheras and Pandyas and then the Vijayanagara empire. N India after 7-8 cent AD was more like scattered Hindu kingdoms buffeted by Muslim assault.
 
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MAYURA

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You forgot the East India Company too.:laugh:


You always have to be invaded and teabagged on first. That's like the natural ritual.
From 226 to 1010 ad, how many times was north india invaded? One and that was repulsed. so in 800 years we saw one great invasion and that is all.

You are showing typical ignorant south indian or marathi ignorance.
 

MAYURA

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@MAYURA, N Indian empire of the Mauryas and Guptas i.e. of the Gangetic plains has been dead for 1500 years S India had the Cholas, Cheras and Pandyas and then the Vijayanagara empire. N India after 7-8 cent AD was more like scattered Hindu kingdoms buffeted by Muslim assault.
Cheras were non entity ruling over a backward region kerala. Pandyas were too brief and cholas did not reach delhi as guptas did and mauryas did with south.

You want to see North India after 8th century. Read about gurjar pratihara empire which till 950 was greatest power in india.

 
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Shaitan

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Look there is no such thing as east india and west india in any history books.
When i said north india it meant all indo aryan speaking region with exception of maharashtra.
There are definitely differences between North India, deep South, Western-Deccan, East India, South-East India, etc. without a shadow of a doubt.

Just because their languages are related doesnt mean everything. Even today there is big difference between Bengalis and Pashtons who speak to Indo-Aryan langs.

are you aware of any difference between eastern UP and bihar from where mauryas and guptas sprang? we are more culturally and racially similar than tamil nadu and andhra pradesh.
There are differences between Bengalis, Bihairs, etc to Western UPs, Punjabis, Rajasthanis, etc, etc, etc. and other North Indians.



Magadha is a East Indian kingdom. Not North Indian what so ever.

Cheras were non entity ruling over a backward region kerala. Pandyas were too brief and cholas did not reach delhi as guptas did and mauryas did with south.

They're not North Indians at all. Who the ---- considers Biharis, etc. North Indians?
 
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