Dutch ban on halal and kosher meat

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by GPM, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. GPM

    GPM Tihar Jail Banned

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    The Dutch lower house of parliament has passed a law effectively banning the ritual slaughter of animals, in a move condemned by Muslim and Jewish groups.
    The legislation states that all animals must be stunned before being killed.
    But the Islamic dhabiha and Jewish shechita methods of ritual slaughter require them to be fully conscious.
    The legislation was proposed by an animal rights party with two MPs, which argued that failing to stun the animals subjected them to unnecessary pain.
    But debate over the matter swiftly became a focus of animosity towards the Netherlands' 1.2 million-strong Muslim community. The country's Jewish population is comparatively small at 50,000.
    Following months of debate a last minute concession was offered - the Muslim and Jewish communities will have a year to provide evidence that animals slaughtered by traditional methods do not experience greater pain than those that are stunned before they are killed.
    However, observers say finding such proof will be virtually impossible.
    The bill must still be approved by the upper house of parliament before it can become law.
    Religious freedom

    Before Tuesday's vote, the head of the Party for the Animals, Marianne Thieme, denied the bill was an attack on religious minorities.
    She argued the law was necessary because scientists agreed that animals suffered pain or fear if they were not stunned before slaughter, and because current regulations allowed exceptions for ritual slaughter.
    Continue reading the main story “Start QuoteOne of the first measures taken during the Occupation [by Nazi Germany during World War II] was the closing of kosher abattoirs”
    End Quote Binyomin Jacobs Dutch Chief Rabbi
    "If you stun an animal before it's been killed, the animal won't experience its own death," she told the BBC World Service. "If you have new techniques to ensure there's no unnecessary suffering then you have to use it."
    "Three-thousand years ago, there were no anaesthetics," she added. "But since then we have developed more humane methods."
    In a rare show of unity, the Muslim and Jewish communities condemned the legislation and said it infringed on their religious freedom.
    "One of the first measures taken during the Occupation [by Nazi Germany during World War II] was the closing of kosher abattoirs," Dutch Chief Rabbi Binyomin Jacobs told MPs during a debate in The Hague.
    "If we no longer have people who can do ritual slaughter in the Netherlands, we will stop eating meat," he added.
    The Party for the Animals said two million animals were subjected to ritual slaughter every year in the Netherlands, although the organisation Halal Correct said only 250,000 were killed without being stunned beforehand.
    To make meat kosher for Jews or halal for Muslims, animals must be slaughtered while still awake, by swiftly cutting the main arteries and veins in their necks with sharp knives, and then allowing the blood to drain out.
    BBC News - Dutch MPs effectively ban ritual slaughter of animals
     
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  3. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bold move if its not in Dutch culture why impose that on them
     
  4. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Because they want Muslims out. Who knows if it will work.
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    How will anyone prove if the animal felt more or less pain? This is pure BS, hypocritical even. Either you kill an animal or you don't. Then how it is killed should not matter.

    There are benefits to humans to consume meat if the animal is killed by slitting the throat. The blood is drained off and it does not coagulate in the body of the dead animal.
     
  6. sanjay

    sanjay Regular Member

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    The replies I'm hearing in this thread are ridiculous. If you're not intelligent enough to understand what pain is from having your throat cut and blood drained out, then I suggest you try an experiment on yourself.

    We're not living in the 7th Century anymore. Netherlands has a longstanding Animal Rights movement - I don't understand what Animal Rights has to do with intolerance. It's those who insist on bloodletting who are intolerant. Update your beliefs and move on. As if people so many centuries ago had the education and standards of humaneness to compare with modern practices. Preposterous.

    Anybody can cry "racism" and play the race card. We see that in India all the time. Meanwhile, when it comes to the people complaining, their countries of origin are absolutely firm in imposing their cultural standards on all inhabitants, whether minorities or not. I'm not going to consider the protestations of one-sided hypocrites to be credible. They can flap their lips all they want, but others won't believe in what they have to say.
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    So stunning is more humane. Who is going to figure that out? Are you going to volunteer yourself? It is ridiculous. Animal rights activists, bloody hell you either don't kill animals or let them be in any manner.

    May be they should go to the jungles as well an teach the lions and tigers to hunt in a more "humane" manner as well
     
  8. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yusuf,

    Stunning is quicker, Its most definitly cyanide in some sorts of way, while cutting throat is slower and more gruesome.
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Who is going to measure the pain?

    My point is, you wither kill and animal or you don't. If you are going to kill, then why bother how.
     
  10. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well its not limited to Dutch even some support Marine Le Pen even she has a similar agenda but then you cannot stop people from thinking.
     
  11. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    I think sometimes these animal rights people go to ridiculous extremes. Maybe few years down the line there may be technology to record the anguish of the plants being plucked, then maybe there would be cries of what stop eating it is cruel to the plants. Wonder where it will end.

    The dutch should send a force to the Faeroe Islands where they mirthlessly butcher whales every year just for the sake of tradition.

     
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  12. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    In Europe the Muslims are basically Asians or Africans or Middle eastern .So they immediately and easily stand out ; Racially .

    There are very few white Muslims

    The aversion to Muslims in Europe is growing rapidly .Muslims are being demonised as monsters

    All talks of integration has been thrown Aside
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  13. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    In stunning, the pain comes and goes, before you know it. Not the same when you cut the throat. Idea is, if you are going to kill them, then kill them with least possible pain. It hypcritical, but it is what it is. And I agree to it
     
  14. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    There's a real underlying problem but there is no smoke without fire
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Some Europeans have a problem with everyone regardless of your religion. They have more problem with colored people than religion.
     
  16. AOE

    AOE Regular Member

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    This I strongly disagree with. If we're going to kill animals then we should have certain standards of practice with the intention of creating the least amount of suffering, otherwise the practice becomes barbaric. I applaud this decision as actually not being hypocritical for once, since I've been arguing for a while now that one cannot ban the practices of halal slaughter without banning similar practices in other faiths that are stuck in the dark ages. If they cannot update their beliefs to the scientific and moral breakthroughs of the modern age, then they shouldn't expect these countries to bend over backwards and have double standards by accepting any and all dubious beliefs and practices of other cultures; that's where the real hypocrisy is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Like one poster has already mentioned, why not include chopping of trees in this as well? So what is a the humane way of killing trees?
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I got a good answer from a chap on a different forum.

    He said it was no hassle.

    They would eat imported stuff from the UK!!
     
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  19. AOE

    AOE Regular Member

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    lol that would be one of the strangest moral equivalences I have ever read in my entire life. Do the religious have their own halal or kosher methods of cutting down trees? If not, then what is the point of the question?
     
  20. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    No the point is in finding out if an animal wants to die this way or that way. Very funny that.
     
  21. AOE

    AOE Regular Member

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    Well unless you want to get into the rhetoric of militant veganism, I don't see the point in chasing such a question except to point out that one is more cruel than the other (halal and kosher as opposed to secular methods).
     

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