DRDO should focus on areas where it has capacity to deliver: PM

Rahul Singh

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Open the damn thread.
Do I need to? I did not said DRDO is unprofessional and amusingly I did not tried back it up by bringing accommodation issue.

Decision to select large scale production partner is not part of DRDO's mandate. Moreover, Does it stop drdo from commercializing at all?
Actually it does. A lab produced product (doesn't matter how great design it is) is not going to win you orders because a potential buyers do look at the manufacturing standards apart from judging other things. And it is well known today that present manufactures of DRDO designed products are incapable of maintaining required QR. So what's the use remains in floating commercial arm when you are going to loose irrespective of what you are capable of?

Truth? Append my post which blamed non-professionalism due to drdo taking decades in perfecting IRBM or just shut up!
This example of IRBM was posted against assertion "DRDO is unprofessional" and it served the purpose very well. Do I need to say prove DRDO is unprofessional or i repeat bold part?

You forgot nut bolts. .
DFCC, MMR Antenna etc. all contains bolts and nuts but I did not mentioned in specific terms because , Nevermind.....My bad will take care of from next time.
Acquiring the great ability to assemble different parts is not an enough excuse to hide from the fact that you don't 'own' the most important component of yet to be operational aircraft
FYI, DFCC of Tejas and Flight computer of MKI is our own design, RWR is also one which has found its place in many serving fighters of foreign origin and these are just two in the sea of examples. And the whole point was, development of these products have made us worthy of putting our own systems aboard jets including FGFA.

Actually SAAB could not also get an engine of home origin aboard JAS-39 Gripen, so going by your words it is doing nothing but falsifying itself as developer of Gripen! Wonder what next?
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Lets Discuss such matter with cool head..

Counter Points with Counter Counter points..
 

nrj

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Do I need to? I did not said DRDO is unprofessional and amusingly I did not tried back it up by bringing accommodation issue.
Then don't ask me to comment about other government organizations.

Actually it does. A lab produced product (doesn't matter how great design it is) is not going to win you orders because a potential buyers do look at the manufacturing standards apart from judging other things. And it is well known today that present manufactures of DRDO designed products are incapable of maintaining required QR. So what's the use remains in floating commercial arm when you are going to loose irrespective of what you are capable of?
Such a pessimistic view for a allegedly progressive entity.

This example of IRBM was posted against assertion "DRDO is unprofessional" and it served the purpose very well. Do I need to say prove DRDO is unprofessional or i repeat bold part?
I personally did not give IRBM example so don't put words in my mouth. You don't have any records to prove it otherwise.

Actually SAAB could not also get an engine of home origin aboard JAS-39 Gripen, so going by your words it is doing nothing but falsifying itself as developer of Gripen! Wonder what next?
Saab has hundreds of fighters serving in various forces, it is pointless to compare Saab's professionalism with DRDO regarding LCA.
 

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Bureaucratic system of administering scientists must change: PM
(Press Release: Unedited)

"We have to change our current bureaucratic system of administering scientific and technical departments, particularly if we have to inspire young scientists to participate enthusiastically in the task of building India into a scientific and technological powerhouse", stated Dr Manmohan Singh, Hon'ble Prime Minister of India stressing on the need to attract and retain high quality scientific manpower in Defence R&D. He was speaking after giving away DRDO Awards for the year 2011 to select scientists, industries, distinguished persons from the academia and DRDO labs in a function organized at Kothari Auditorium, DRDO Bhawan, New Delhi in the presence of Hon'ble Defence Minister, Shri A K Antony and galaxy of dignitaries. The DRDO awards are given every year to honour individual Scientists/Teams for their outstanding contribution in furthering DRDO's efforts for self-reliance in developing cutting edge defence technologies.
In his address the Hon'ble Prime Minister congratulated the scientists and said "It gives me immense pleasure to be amidst the scientific fraternity of the Defence Research and Development Organization once again to honour distinguished scientists and technologists who have made outstanding contributions to defence research and development. I extend to the awardees my heartiest congratulations. The nation is grateful to you for your dedication and committed service to our national causes. Ever since its establishment in 1958, DRDO has made significant contributions in putting India on the path of achieving self-reliance in critical defence technologies." Raising concern over the current security scenario he said "As we look around us, a net deterioration in the international strategic and security environment becomes so obvious. Political uncertainties in our immediate and extended neighbourhood, civil strife and turmoil in the Middle East, terrorism and threats to cyber security present complex challenges that require both conventional as well as technological responses". Emphasising the need to strengthen the indigenous industries, he stated, "In the longer term, we have to build our domestic defence industry, in the public as well as in the private sectors, to a level where it can compete with global players not only in terms of developing state of the art technologies but also on commercial parameters and customer satisfaction". He concluded his speech by saying "I am very confident DRDO will continue to serve the nation with excellence in year that lies ahead".

Earlier, in his welcome address, Dr Vijay Kumar Saraswat, Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and Secretary, Deptt. Of Defence R & D presented glimpse of DRDO's recent achievements ranging from crowning success of Agni 5 long range ballistic missile within few months of successful launch of Agni 4 to Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, Main Battle Tank Arjun MkII, Rocket launcher system Pinaka, Autonomous Underwater Vehicle, heavy weight torpedo VARUNASTRA, Submarine Escape Suite and productionisation of DMR steel and Titanium sponge. Reiterating DRDO's commitment to its mandate of providing cutting edge defence technologies of world class standards to serve the operational requirements of the Indian Armed Forces and achieve higher level of self reliance in defence technologies, Dr Saraswat stated "the percentage of indigenous systems through the Acquisition route has significantly increased from the earlier 30% to almost 60%, thanks mainly to DRDO developed weapons & platforms". He underlined the importance of augmenting production capabilities stating, "There are problems related to capacity & capability build up viz. Requirement of Exclusive assembly line for DRDO systems, augmentation & modernisation of existing production infrastructure, induction of trained skilled manpower in DPSUs & OFB – all of which are critical to enable DRDO systems to be produced in required numbers, with requisite quality". "Yet another area of concern is the need for Policy decisions on more JVs with DRDO" Citing example of Brahmos as an outstanding example joint venture which has seen remarkable success, he said "We feel the need for such mechanisms to be evolved for DRDO JVs so that an efficient workable system can be put in place to enable quick returns in technology areas with complementary work share".
Unveiling the future roadmap, he stated, "Our major goals for the year ahead include flight test of Interceptor missile for targets of 5000 km Range class, First flight of Nirbhay- our sub-sonic cruise missile, and First flight of AEW&C system in India with all systems integrated. In the 12th Plan, we will launch a number of major programs which will mark a paradigm change in force preparedness including SRSAM for Tri Services, Pravira- for protection of Critical Infrastructure, Micro-Nano satellites with Launch-on-Demand capability and G-SAT6 based Communication system." Highlighting DRDO's contribution to society through civilian applications of spin-off from technologies developed for armed forces, Dr Saraswat stated, "Under the Technology Transfer program, about 40 MoUs have been signed and business development for another 20 technologies is in the advanced stage of Commercialization. Citing example of bio-digester technology developed for safe disposal of human waste in extreme cold climate of high altitude regions of mighty Himalayas, he said, "The acceptance of DRDO developed bio-digesters for the Railways, in turn has resulted in the Min. of Environment requesting DRDO assistance and the first set of bio digesters was installed in the Dhamra coast, with plans to extend the installation to 2.4 lakh Gram Panchayats in phases"

The awards ceremony concluded with vote of thanks from Lt Gen Anoop Malhotra, Chief Controller R&D (RM&I).
This year the Life Time Achievement Award has been conferred on Prof P Rama Rao in recognition of his exceptional contribution to multi-fold array of technology and management initiatives that led to transformation of several institutions seeded by him into frontline centres of excellence. Instruments Research & Development Establishment (IRDE), Dehradun has been awarded Silicon Trophy for the best systems laboratory of DRDO. Titanium Trophy has been awarded to Defence Food Research Laboratory (DFRL), Mysore for developing food packaging technologies for armed forces. Shri A K Chakrabarti of DRDL, Hyderabad, Dr K Sekhar, CC R&D, DRDO HQrs and Dr K Tamilmani of CEMILAC, Bangaluru have been conferred upon the coveted Technology Leadership Award in recognition of their technological contribution and leadership qualities. The Academic Excellence Awards have been given to Prof V G Idichandy of IIT Chennai with his team and Dr P Seetharamian of Andhra University, Chennai. The Technology Absorption Award has been conferred on M/s Graphite India Ltd, Bangaluru and M/s Fluoro Carbon Seals, Chennai, who are the DRDO's Industrial partners.

The event was witnessed by Shri V Narayanasamy, Minister of state PMO, Shri Shivshankar Menon, National Security Adviser, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, PVSM, AVSM, VM, ADC, Chief of Air Staff, Shri Shashi Kant Sharma, Defence Secretary and other luminaries.

Speech Copy of DRDO chief (Unedited)

Honourable Pradhan Mantriji, Honourable Raksha Mantriji, National Security Adviser, Chiefs of the Armed Forces, Secretaries in the Ministry of Defence / Govt of India, distinguished invitees, Awardees & their families, members of the media my colleagues, ladies and gentlemen. It gives me great pleasure to welcome you all to the Annual Awards Function 2012. A special word of welcome goes out to Hon Prime Minister and our Raksha Mantriji who have by their presence today demonstrated their solidarity with DRDO.

2.This annual event held to celebrate the accomplishments of our dedicated work force is an occasion when we pay collective tribute to the work output of DRDO Scientists. Indeed the year 2011-12 was marked with major accomplishments in almost every technology domain, as DRDO worked to catapult itself as a technology leader in defence systems.

3.As always, our prowess in strategic systems led the way with a number of milestones achieved- including the spectacular maiden launch of India's long range strategic missile Agni 5, successful launch of Agni IV and Prahar and launch of the Endo-atmospheric interceptor missiles.

4.In the arena of tactical systems- major milestones included maiden flight of LCA Navy and the AEW&C platform with a number of DRDO developed systems and successful tests of long endurance UAV Rustom1 which will pave the way for development of Rustom II in full deliverable configuration. Two regiments of Arjun MkI entered the proud possession of our Army; Arjun MK-II developed in record time of 2 years is now under trials. The induction of large number of PINAKA rocket launchers in the operational command of the Indian Army is a much needed boost to DRDO as it strives to establish its credentials with the Indian Army's operational units.

5. DRDO's efforts in development of Naval systems received a major boost with the successful trials of the Autonomous Underwater Vehicle, operationalization of a number of SONARs on respective platforms and extensive sea trials of heavy weight torpedo VARUNASTRA. The completion of DIVYA DRISHTHI signal intelligence program and trials of a number of Radars have given a major boost to self reliance in this critical area. The productionisation of DMR steel leading to production of about 30,000 tons; and Titanium from the newly established KMML were other achievements. Bulk production orders were received for Submarine Escape Suite for Navy and Lightweight Helicopter Oxygen System for IAF.

6. In the field of Cyber Security, notable achievement was the setting up of Cyber Defence & Forensic labs and the launch & preliminary design activities in the development of network hardware and software systems. DRDO has also initiated substantial development activity in the field of Space security viz. in Space based ELINT/COMINT, Satellite based communication & Navigation programs etc

7. These were just a glimpse of achievements of DRDO in the past year which spans the entire gamut - from the Nation's strategic deterrence capability to technology spin-offs for India's civil sector. The production value of systems based on technologies developed by DRDO during the past one decade is well over 1, 48, 000 crores. I would like to take this opportunity to announce that the percentage of indigenous systems through the Acquisition route has significantly increased from the earlier 30% to almost 60% as of 2012(without accounting for strategic systems), thanks mainly to DRDO developed weapons & platforms.

8. Our major goals for the year ahead include:

Flight test of Interceptor missile for targets of 5000 km Range class.

First flight of Nirbhay- our sub-sonic cruise missile.

First flight of AEW&C system in India with all systems integrated.

9. In the 12th Five year Plan, we will launch a number of major programs which will mark a paradigm change in force preparedness including:

1. SRSAM for Tri Services

2. Pravira- for protection of Critical Infrastructure

3. Micro-Nano satellites with Launch-on-Demand capability

4. G-SAT6 based Communication system

10. Let me now highlight a few corporate initiatives & policy plans.

In the year 2011 about 125 projects at a total outlay of about Rs 100 Crores was sanctioned to about 70 research/academic institutions. Based on our innovation patent portfolio DRDO has won the prestigious Thomson Reuters Innovation Award. The DRDO Innovation Centre at the IITMadras Research Park which was initiated last year is now ready for formal launch with specific areas and teams identified to pursue Basic & applied research in close association with Academia, Industry and research scholars.

11. Under the Technology Transfer program, about 40 MoUs have been signed and business development for another 20 technologies is in the advanced stage of Commercialisation. A significant initiative under the DRDO-FICCI collaboration was our contribution to the Aahar program using DRDO developed food products, thus providing employment to women for the benefit of the lowest economic strata of society. The acceptance of DRDO developed bio-digesters for the Railways, in turn has resulted in the Min. of Environment requesting DRDO assistance and the first set of bio digesters was installed in the Dhamra coast, with plans to extend the installation to 2.4 lakh Gram Panchayats in phases.

12. DRDO-Industry interaction received fresh impetus in 2011, with participation in major defence exhibitions including the Indo-Africa Business Partnership Summit at Hyderabad, the Aerospace and Defence exhibition(AAD) at S. Africa, Defence Expo at Rio-de-Janiero Brazil, MSPO at Poland and DSEi at London, wherein interest was evinced for joint collaboration with DRDO. At the Def Expo 2012 held in March-April at Delhi, we have proudly showcased our products & systems in competition with the best in the world.

13. Appreciating the benefits of International Cooperation DRDO in the past year has interacted with a number of countries including UK, Canada, Germany etc which have yielded fruitful results- one of which was the establishment of a Kyrygyz-Indian mountain Biomedical research Centre.

14. In a departure from our traditional role of prototype development, DRDO has over the recent production cycle of our major programs, realised that a substantial amount of hand holding is required in the post development phase. There are problems related to capacity & capability build up viz. Requirement of Exclusive assembly line for DRDO systems, augmentation & modernisation of existing production infrastructure, induction of trained skilled manpower in DPSUs & OFB – all of which are critical to enable DRDO systems to be produced in required numbers, with requisite quality- and we look to the Govt for efforts in this direction.

15. Yet another issue which I would like to highlight is the need to augment the capability of India's manufacturing sector: This is an area of concern- as use of modern manufacturing techniques can provide a big boost to both defence products and the Indian economy in the long run. DRDO proposes:

a. Specific manufacturing facilities (for e.g CMTI/HMT) to be dedicated to futuristic technology development projects .

b. Creation of National centres for aeroengine structures and Naval structures which are currently a big lacuna in the country and is hampering indigenous capability.

c. Investments in establishment of Silicon and MEMS foundry, GaN foundry and photonics-required for technology dominance.

d. Establishment of Electronic hardware sanitisation centres- to counter cyber threats

For each of the above, substantial funding will be a prime requirement.

Yet another area of concern is the need for Policy decisions on more JVs with DRDO: As you are aware Brahmos was an outstanding example of Indo Russian joint venture which saw quick success . Guidelines have been recently issued for JVs for DPSUs. We feel the need for such mechanisms to be evolved for DRDOJVs too- so that an efficient workable system can be put in place to enable quick returns in technology areas with complementary work share.

The paper on establishment of Empowered Defence Technology Commission has been moved by DRDO and is under protracted discussion at various levels of Govt. We hope that it will be approved soon and the Commission on lines of Space & Atomic Energy Commission will be setup with suitable empowerment so as to enforce Self Reliance - which is of critical importance for India to become a world leader in Defence Systems.

The final issue which I would like to highlight is the DRDO Budget which has remained more or less same. In tune with Hon'ble Prime Minister's announcement at the 99th Indian Science Congress held in January this year and in view of major programs which are on the anvil viz. SRSAM, LCA MKII, ATVP etc we look forward to getting higher allocation of funds at the review stage- which is essential to bring in next generation technology maturity.

As is evident, we have set for ourselves an ambitious roadmap, armed with the desire to dream big and propel our nation to an elevated position on the world stage. For this to become a reality we look forward to the collective efforts, co-operation and support from all stake holders.

I would like to conclude with a word of thanks to the Honourable Prime Minister for having accepted our invitation to Address the DRDO community and honour the awardees. We also thank the Hon. RM, RRM and other dignitaries for their presence & continued support to our endevours. DRDO is committed to fulfilling its mandate of providing cutting edge defence technologies of world class standards to serve the operational requirements of the Indian Armed Forces and achieve higher level of self reliance in defence technologies.

Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: Bureaucratic system of administering scientists must change: PM
 
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Rahul Singh

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Then don't ask me to comment about other government organizations.
You tried to relate poor accommodation with professionalism of an organization, which in case of DRDO you related it with condition of rooms and accommodation being made available to DRDO scientist. This assertion of yours was contradicted by me with examples which of course included other government organization to give sense of environment and culture which is prevailing equally all over the country. And it was to show that this problem is not DRDO specific but of country by large and also the fact that DRDO being an government owned organisation can't change in isolation. But the real point was does it actually affects the professionalism? I guess i have already given enough examples.

Such a pessimistic view for a allegedly progressive entity.
No pessimism, not a bit. It is smart decision and calculated thinking. Why venture into sure shot failure, why build over something which lacks base, a base upon which you have jurisdiction?

I personally did not give IRBM example so don't put words in my mouth. You don't have any records to prove it otherwise.
Actually I did never say you said it. I always said I used it as an example to show how supposed unprofessionalism did not stop DRDO from maiden flight testing A-5 in under 4 years from project initiation. And it was put in contrast with IRBM just to prove that it was lack of experience not unprofessionalism which took DRDO get (comparatively less challenging) IRBM perfected in over a decade.

Saab has hundreds of fighters serving in various forces, it is pointless to compare Saab's professionalism with DRDO regarding LCA.
But it can't manage a Swedish engine in its JAS-39 Gripen and that's what I said in response to this statement of yours --quote – Acquiring the great ability to assemble different parts is not an enough excuse to hide from the fact that you don't 'own' the most important component of yet to be operational aircraft—unquote— And I also gave examples to contradict your statement that ADA/DRDO/HAL etc are masters of assembling and nothing more.

Now I wonder what's point in bringing 'own engine' issue if it has nothing to mean? Just because you think DRDO is unprofessional and you bring 'own engine' issue to prove some point don't mean I have to accept it blindly.

I believe reason why DRDO takes so much time to get things done is its lack of experience not professionalism and i will continue to stand by it unless proven otherwise.
 

Ray

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Notwithstanding what the DRDO may claim, compare the funds available to them over time and what they have given to the Forces.

Most of the functional equipment given are a patch work of foreign assemblies married to each other.
 

Ray

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Some years ago, India carried out three test launching of the Agni, but then had stopped further tests because of American pressure. Now this cap has been removed. It may be worth noting that Agni is a copy of the US scout missile. Agni's architect, Dr Abdul Kalam, received four months training in 1963-64 at NASA's Langley Research Centre in Virginia (Where US scout rocket was designed) and the Wallops Island Flight Centre on the Virginia coast (where the scout was flight tested).

Nuclear Weapons & Missiles - 2
 

Ray

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I know many PhDs here in the US, some of them are much celebrated and have plenty of journal publications. Frankly, I have not heard of anyone living in a 5 bedroom accomodation, leave alone 5 star accomodation.
You may have not seen DRDO guest rooms.
 

nrj

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You tried to relate poor accommodation with professionalism of an organization, which in case of DRDO you related it with condition of rooms and accommodation being made available to DRDO scientist. This assertion of yours was contradicted by me with examples which of course included other government organization to give sense of environment and culture which is prevailing equally all over the country. And it was to show that this problem is not DRDO specific but of country by large and also the fact that DRDO being an government owned organisation can't change in isolation. But the real point was does it actually affects the professionalism? I guess i have already given enough examples.
It does affect professionalism. These organizations score poor on human resource management. I was highlighting symptoms, causes are different which begin with government control of course.

No pessimism, not a bit. It is smart decision and calculated thinking. Why venture into sure shot failure, why build over something which lacks base, a base upon which you have jurisdiction?
I wonder if ISRO has freedom to choose its production partner?

Actually I did never say you said it.
Fair enough.

But it can't manage a Swedish engine in its JAS-39 Gripen and that's what I said in response to this statement of yours --quote – Acquiring the great ability to assemble different parts is not an enough excuse to hide from the fact that you don't 'own' the most important component of yet to be operational aircraft—unquote— And I also gave examples to contradict your statement that ADA/DRDO/HAL etc are masters of assembling and nothing more.

Now I wonder what's point in bringing 'own engine' issue if it has nothing to mean? Just because you think DRDO is unprofessional and you bring 'own engine' issue to prove some point don't mean I have to accept it blindly.
Engine issue was brought in to put down chest thumping that 'drdo is putting it's own system on its aircraft'.

Technological capability can not be an excuse to compensate how you handle your human resources.

I believe reason why DRDO takes so much time to get things done is its lack of experience not professionalism and i will continue to stand by it unless proven otherwise.
I don't blame long timeline of its projects. I am aware of many external reasons which lead to delay.

However drdo lacks professionalism, be it mismanagement or under utilization of human talent.


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nrj

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"We have to change our current bureaucratic system of administering scientific and technical departments, particularly if we have to inspire young scientists to participate enthusiastically in the task of building India into a scientific and technological powerhouse", stated Dr Manmohan Singh, Hon'ble Prime Minister of India stressing on the need to attract and retain high quality scientific manpower in Defence R&D.
we have to build our domestic defence industry, in the public as well as in the private sectors, to a level where it can compete with global players not only in terms of developing state of the art technologies but also on commercial parameters and customer satisfaction".
There, he said it himself.


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Rahul Singh

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It does affect professionalism. These organizations score poor on human resource management. I was highlighting symptoms, causes are different which begin with government control of course.
That's how government owned organization works in India and it includes military. You are either privatizing entire sector or you live with it. To me, it doesn't really matters as long as work is getting done. BTW privatized India is not very different, Indian private Inc. also scores low to their western counterparts, that of course if you see west as standard.

Philosophically speaking, i personally see life sustenance on minimum requirement as best form of life because it does lesser harm to environment and leaves larger scope for coming generations. I don't agree to theory of higher per capita consumption being indicative of better life.

I wonder if ISRO has freedom to choose its production partner?
ISRO shoots how many missions a year? 5-10"¦ How many of these are purely commercial missions? 0-1"¦ How many satellites ISRO has sold so far? 1-2"¦. And even at peak of its business, how many it can possibly sell a year? May be 10-20"¦.. Now compare it with an order for a system like Akash or INSAS in volume. You are actually talking about hundreds and thousands at minimum. Point is, in case of ISRO numbers are so low that it can meet requirement with lab scale / low scale production with some support from external production agencies. Noticeable thing is, because of smaller numbers ISRO can enforce and maintain required quality standards. In contrast, in case of DRDO, volume of order is such which DRDO can't meet with lab scale production. And also because of same large volume it is practically impossible to enforce quality control upon a production agency which was not selected by you in first place. Worth full is mention of INSAS as an example. In words of Ajai Shukla (not exactly in same in structure) "otherwise an excellent design, the gun has been much mingled due to low production standards practiced among OFBs". Now it should be amply clear why DRDO is reluctant to venture into commercial arm business and why it has (apparently) decided against earlier held wish of floating commercial arm.



Engine issue was brought in to put down chest thumping that 'drdo is putting it's own system on its aircraft'.

Technological capability can not be an excuse to compensate how you handle your human resources.
Why should there not be any chest thumping or rejoice over success? "¦"¦..Technological success among scientist and user are seen differently and none of two is wrong. While sharing concerns of user we must not overlook hard earned achievements of scientific community. Like I said earlier, no technological project is failure as long as you develop something for first time through it. And this is how world works..... Much of the west today is successful because it has passed through the period of 'hit and trail' but in our case it is still going on because we were late to start. And despite leaping many decades we are still behind because minimum time is something which can't be further cut short.

As for engine in specific terms, well GTRE failed to get Kaveri perfected for LCA requirements and it's a truth. Another truth is, GTRE did develop a working turbofan out of no where. Now I do acknowledge that it did take considerable amount of help from outside but it does not discount fact that this was our very first attempt and that too without having any infrastructure at project initiation, does it?

Many people say it is DRDO's habit of vetoing any purchase by promising moon. But the questions I ask, do we as a country ever been serious about high tech R&D, especially military oriented? Could we have developed aviation culture and much of fighter jet related technology independently if joint work was not launched to fulfill requirements of project LCA? Could we have ever attempted work as challenging as developing Fly-by-Wire control for a unstable fighter if a project like LCA would not have been in hand?

It's very easy to pass the blame but very hard to acknowledge the fact that DRDO is very part of what country itself has created.



I don't blame long timeline of its projects. I am aware of many external reasons which lead to delay.

However drdo lacks professionalism, be it mismanagement or under utilization of human talent.
Professionalism in terms of what, getting the job done or just following western style? The main reason why DRDO did not delivered in past was inexperience, and reason why it delivering now is experience, something which it has gained over time and it matters a lot. Most of time DRDO's failure has been attributed to supposed lack of professionalism and management skills but our mud-shelling media never actually acknowledged the very fact that it is experience which actually teaches better management and this includes proper uses of resources.

In world of management, you were never imperfect nor will you ever be perfect, you can only be better so keep evolving which is what DRDO is doing as always.
 

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That's how government owned organization works in India and it includes military. You are either privatizing entire sector or you live with it. To me, it doesn't really matters as long as work is getting done. BTW privatized India is not very different, Indian private Inc. also scores low to their western counterparts, that of course if you see west as standard.
I know how govt organizations work in India and that is why I believe that DRDO should go public. We had it entirely in babu/neta control for long time and overall performance is not exactly impressive.

Time to introduce major change. Once the domestic private sector deepens it's legs in defense industry, drdo will find it pretty difficult to compete against rival's practically abundant resources. Not necessary that you should agree with me.


ISRO shoots how many missions a year? 5-10"¦ How many of these are purely commercial missions? 0-1"¦ How many satellites ISRO has sold so far? 1-2"¦. And even at peak of its business, how many it can possibly sell a year? May be 10-20"¦.. Now compare it with an order for a system like Akash or INSAS in volume. You are actually talking about hundreds and thousands at minimum. Point is, in case of ISRO numbers are so low that it can meet requirement with lab scale / low scale production with some support from external production agencies. Noticeable thing is, because of smaller numbers ISRO can enforce and maintain required quality standards. In contrast, in case of DRDO, volume of order is such which DRDO can't meet with lab scale production. And also because of same large volume it is practically impossible to enforce quality control upon a production agency which was not selected by you in first place. Worth full is mention of INSAS as an example. In words of Ajai Shukla (not exactly in same in structure) "otherwise an excellent design, the gun has been much mingled due to low production standards practiced among OFBs". Now it should be amply clear why DRDO is reluctant to venture into commercial arm business and why it has (apparently) decided against earlier held wish of floating commercial arm.
Well, idea of floating commercial arm came from high quarters so owner i.e. GOI can move it with or without accepting DRDO's terms.

Why should there not be any chest thumping or rejoice over success? "¦"¦..Technological success among scientist and user are seen differently and none of two is wrong. While sharing concerns of user we must not overlook hard earned achievements of scientific community. Like I said earlier, no technological project is failure as long as you develop something for first time through it. And this is how world works..... Much of the west today is successful because it has passed through the period of 'hit and trail' but in our case it is still going on because we were late to start. And despite leaping many decades we are still behind because minimum time is something which can't be further cut short.
We determine DRDO's success in terms of user satisfaction i.e. how much it is useful to the armed forces.

You want to celebrate over every tiny hardware prototyped at DRDO, do it. I am worried about the 'end' and not the 'means'.

As for engine in specific terms, well GTRE failed to get Kaveri perfected for LCA requirements and it's a truth.
In practical terms, that's all that matters.

Professionalism in terms of what,
Like I said, start with human resource management.
 

Bhadra

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The user do not differentiate between a Lab and a production factory. Tell me in which case user is supposed to compare between the Lab designs and the final factory product. If the final product is as substandard as INSAS, why should Army accept it only because it has been designed by DRDO. You clearly have no case here.

When the final product is bad, user has right to reject it. Why then DRDO starts howling and calls rejection by the user as "Generals desire for Foreign Mal", etc etc. DRDO has become a propagandist organisation, a lobbyist rather than a research organisation. And whatever little research is conducted has no bearing on the ground conditions where final product is used. That is why MoD proposal that all DRDO scientists should serve for at least five years in the Armed Forces is worth reconsideration.

DRDO needs serious introspection rather than encourage persecution complex.
 

Kunal Biswas

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If the final product is as substandard as INSAS, why should Army accept it only because it has been designed by DRDO. You clearly have no case here.
I hate to comment, People dont have idea about they are talking or have clue,

DRDO dont make Insas OFB does..

OFB manufacturing quality is to be blamed not Deign..
 

pmaitra

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The user do not differentiate between a Lab and a production factory. Tell me in which case user is supposed to compare between the Lab designs and the final factory product. If the final product is as substandard as INSAS, why should Army accept it only because it has been designed by DRDO. You clearly have no case here.

When the final product is bad, user has right to reject it. Why then DRDO starts howling and calls rejection by the user as "Generals desire for Foreign Mal", etc etc. DRDO has become a propagandist organisation, a lobbyist rather than a research organisation. And whatever little research is conducted has no bearing on the ground conditions where final product is used. That is why MoD proposal that all DRDO scientists should serve for at least five years in the Armed Forces is worth reconsideration.

DRDO needs serious introspection rather than encourage persecution complex.
Bhadra, INSAS is made by OFB. Have you visited the OFB website, ever?

Go to this link (http://ofb.gov.in/index.php?wh=inbrief&lang=en) and find the excerpt below, and also, there is no mention of DRDO anywhere:
Introduction

Indian Ordnance Factories is a giant industrial setup which functions under the Department of Defence Production of the Ministry of Defence. Indian Ordnance Factories, headquartered at Kolkata, is a conglomerate of 41 Factories, 9 Training Institutes, 3 Regional Marketing Centres and 4 Regional Controller of Safety.
Today OFB along with its 41 factories spread over India provide
  • a broad and versatile production base with multi-technology capabilities
  • state of the art manufacturing facilities
  • large reservoir of skilled and professionally qualified manpower and managerial personnel
  • strict adherence to quality standard (all the units are ISO-9000 certified)
  • original as well as adaptive research & development to make need based refinement and modifications
  • project engineering capability
  • a strong base for industrial training facilities
  • ready market access due to convenient location
 

Bhadra

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Read carefully what I wrote and do no ascribe motves.

That is what I said . If INSAS is produced by OFB and user do not accept it due to poor quality, who are DRDO to come in between and startd defending it?

User is user and not a slave agency.
Does DRDO and OFB exist for the AF or AF exist for them to throw their "scientific" muck.

If your barrel bulges after 100 rounds of firing, who is DRDO to defend it.
But DRDO has taken upon themselves to the name callers to the Army !

This way things are not going to work up. Let OFB defend themselves.
 
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