DRDO and PSU news and discussion

Discussion in 'Strategic Forces' started by Sridhar, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    Lets continue on Nirbhay page
    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/nirbhay-cruise-missile-development.4624/

    I will tag you in this page.
     
  2. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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  3. kunal1123

    kunal1123 Regular Member

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    idrw.org
    Was DRDO developing the Rail-gun technology from 90s ?
    5-7 minutes
    SOURCE: Indrajit Majumdar / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

    [​IMG]

    Various of Publications/Newsletters from government agencies like BARC and DRDO’s ARDE, HEMRL etc. is indicative of that Railgun research in India was really started vary long back in the mid 80s or early 90s.

    Two ARDE publications in the DRDO website dating back to the April [Ref-1] and July [Ref-2] of 1994 clearly writes that:

    > “A railgun using electromagnetic propulsion was developed to launch hypervelocity projectiles.”

    > “A 240 kJ , low inductance capacitor bank operating at 5 kV powered the railgun.”

    > “Launchers and projectiles were designed and developed for this purpose.”

    > “A simulation code was developed to optimise the performance of the railgun.”

    > “Control and instrumentation facilities were set up along with a computer-based data acquisition system for measurement and analysis.”

    > “The capacity to launch projectiles of 3-3.5 g weight to a velocity of more than 2.00 km/s was demonstrated.”

    The articles then goes into details including inner workings, mathematical details, test details, and results of the already developed prototypes etc.

    So clearly enough, if they already had working prototypes of Railgun and were testing it in the time of publication of those two articles then they obviously started working on it at least 5 to 10 years before from the publication date.

    Another DRDO publication of October 2003 originating from HEMRL [Ref-3] indicates that they are researching on the fields of nonconventional concepts of solid projectile propulsion such as Liquid Gun Propellant, Rail Gun, Coil Gun, Electrothermal Gun, Electrothermal Chemical Gun along with Conventional Energetic Solid Gun propellants.

    So, as per the article, its not only Railgun which they are working on but other kind of alternate projectile propulsion also including Coil Gun. Their inner working concepts, properties, pros and cons are also mentioned briefly.

    But is it only DRDO going it alone? No other govt agencies involved?

    An article in the 2015 foundation day spacial issue newsletter [Ref-4, p48] from BARC by Dr. T.C Kaushik from BARC’s Applied Physics Division itself writes that:

    > “In our lab, we have developed a 60cm long; 6mm square bore Rail Gun. The rails consist of two 12×12 mm2 ETC grade copper bars. A 4mm deep step was introduced on either side of the rails to get a bore size of 6mm x 6mm. The rail gun is fired by a 38 kJ capacitor bank with peak current of 150kA with a quarter cycle rise time 0.12ms. A velocity of 3.1 km/s has been obtained which matches well with theoretically expected value of 3.2 km/s. Another 200 kJ capacitor bank has been commissioned for enhancing the velocity further with a new rail gun set up.”

    The interesting part of that BARC article is that it do not mentions development date. It seems the development was done in the past but on request for the spacial issue he wrote it in 2015.

    Its realy confusing which agency doing what. Are both the DRDO and BARC carrying development of Railgun separately? But why separately? Its wastage of resources and hard to believe also because they are government agencies and not private.

    So the best logical assumption would be they both are working together given that BARC is already experienced in vary high energy pulse power generation be it a capacitor bank, marks generator or a explosive based generator e.g. Explosively Pumped Flux Compression Generator (EPFCG) because of their KALI, LINAC and LIA programs [Ref-5]. They are doing it for decades. More precisely:

    > “The pulsed power program has been started in BARC since 1970s, it was developed for fusion related research (till 1980s) and then focus was shifted to NEMP (nuclear electro-magnetic pulse) simulation, hardening andsurge suppression. Pulse power systems were developed for generation of high power microwave and Flash X-rays for strategic applications.” [Ref-5]

    [Ref-1] http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/view/4160/2422

    [Ref-2] http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/view/4179/2439

    [Ref-3] http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/index.php/dsj/article/download/2279/1236

    [Ref-4] http://www.barc.gov.in/publications/nl/2015/spl2015/pdf/completeissue.pdf – p48

    [Ref-5] http://www.barc.gov.in/publications/nl/2015/spl2015/pdf/completeissue.pdf
    http://www.barc.gov.in/publications/nl/2013/spl2013/web/newsletter/pdf/DAE EA/paper05.pdf

    Disclaimer : Articles published under ” MY TAKE ” are articles written by Guest Writers and Opinions expressed within this article are the personal opinions of the author. IDRW.ORG is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness, suitability, or validity of any information on this article. All information is provided on an as-is basis. The information, facts or opinions appearing in the article do not reflect the views of IDRW.ORG and IDRW.ORG does not assume any responsibility or liability for the same. article is for information purposes only and not intended to constitute professional advice .
    Article by Indrajit Majumdar , cannot be republished Partially or Full without consent from Writer or idrw.org
    Note: If you have personal opinion and want to contribute for” MY TAKE ”on Defence matters kindly email us at [email protected]
     
  4. Bhumihar

    Bhumihar Jako Rakhe Saiyan Mar Sake Na Koi Senior Member

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    -Rail Gun
    -Nuclear Propulsion
    -Air Defence Systems
    -Stealth
    -Satellite navigation and Imaging
    -Battle field management System
    -Cyberwarfare
    -Drones
    These are the thing which will matter in future warfare.
     
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  5. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

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    These incompetent Idrw writers only cover when they found it that they can sell it cheaply, while such development is their in Defence science journal, since 1994
     
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  6. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Don`t take IDRW seriously ..

    They are known for making news out of rumors from forums such as BR, DFI and worst terrorist forum ..
     
  7. Vinod DX9

    Vinod DX9 Regular Member

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    Aqua Ace II_20171116_214205.jpg
    We are struggling for engine for long time.
    However, GTX incorporated all components /subsystems, such as transonic compressor, annular combustor, shrouded cooled turbines, fully variable exhaust nozzle, digital control system and sophisticated materials and metal-forming techniques. The engine was test run successfully bringing to an end the demonstrator phase of engine development.
     
  8. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    This was a turbojet engine I believe. The follow up re engineered Turbofan didn't make quiet an impact.
     
  9. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    India developed turbojet engine even now? Turbojet engines are like Afterburner engines. A big waste of fuel. They can't work properly. It was abandoned in 1970s itself
     
  10. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    The pic which @Vinod DX9 provided, is of 1971.

    Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.
     
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  11. Steven Rogers

    Steven Rogers Regular Member

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    Indian turbofan era has started, it is quite mature to miniaturize turbofan to be fitted on cruise missiles, just in 5years, all Indian missiles(smart as well as cruise) will be fitted with Indian turbofan, be it supplied from POEIR JETS or Manik, trainers will to see HTFE-25, and a separate engine for Ghatak UCAV, Kaveri engine will be solved in coming years, and that's the important point.
     
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  12. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ministry of Defence scraps $500-million Israeli missile deal, wants DRDO to make in India

    The deal, seen as another proof of growing Indo-Israel defence cooperation, was expected to be signed after price negotiations with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems of Israel were completed last year.


    ASKING THE Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to indigenously develop and produce a Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM) for the Army, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has decided to cancel the $500 million deal for Spike ATGM with Israel. The deal, seen as another proof of growing Indo-Israel defence cooperation, was expected to be signed after price negotiations with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems of Israel were completed last year.

    In anticipation of this deal, Rafael had entered into a joint venture with Kalyani group for missile production in India. The missile sub-systems manufacturing facility, based near Hyderabad, was inaugurated in August.

    Ministry sources told The Indian Express that the decision to cancel the deal was based on the consideration that importing a foreign ATGM at this stage would adversely impact the programme for indigenous development of the weapon system by DRDO. Earlier, India had also rejected an offer from US-based Raytheon-Lockheed Martin for Javelin ATGM in favour of the Israeli weapon system.

    “DRDO has successfully produced the Nag and Anamika ATGMs. It is confident about providing the Army with an MPATGM of 3rd generation missile technology, at par with Spike, within three to four years. It won’t also need any transfer of technology,” sources said.

    Also Read: India clears Rs 17,000 crore missile deal with Israel

    The decision to retract the Request for Proposal (RFP), however, will be a setback to the modernisation programme of the Army. In letters to the MoD, the Army headquarters had highlighted “the operational urgency of the equipment”, arguing that the Spike “gives a major capability impetus to troops deployed on the Line of Control, especially in the current operational scenario”.

    Spike MR missile is a 3rd generation, fire and forget, top attack, ATGM with a range of 2.5 km, which can operate both during the day and night. The Army is currently using 2nd generation ATGMs — Konkurs and Milan 2T — which do not have night-fighting capabilities. Moreover, the Army currently has a shortage of around 68,000 missiles, with no missiles held as War Wastage Reserves against a government stipulation to build up stocks to last for at least 10 days of intense fighting.

    In 2009, the MoD accepted the requirement of buying 321 ATGM launchers and 8,356 missiles, with 30 per cent offsets and a transfer of technology clause. An option of approaching the US for buying Javelin ATGM was also explored, but the US government was not amenable to transfer of technology. Only Rafael of Israel responded, and Spike missiles underwent trials in 2011-12. The ministry accepted the trial evaluation in 2013 and gave clearance for procuring from a single vendor. The US government later tried to offer the Javelin ATGM with transfer of technology but India chose to go ahead with the Israeli system.

    Ministry sources said that trials highlighted a problem with one of the two homing devices in the launcher which led to constitution of a study group. The study group presented its report in August 2014, and the ministry agreed in October 2014 to procure the missiles from Rafael.

    Price negotiations between Rafael and the MoD started in March 2015. After the prices were finalised in June 2016, then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar constituted an experts committee to review the evaluation report and explore the possibility of an indigenous missile system. There was divergence in the views of the DRDO representatives and Army representatives in the experts committee over the case. The matter was eventually resolved earlier this month with Army headquarters agreeing to retract the RFP for ATGM launchers and missiles.

    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ile-deal-wants-drdo-to-make-in-india-4945571/
     
  13. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    I don't understand why the deal was cancelled. Didn't Israel give 100% ToT on seekers? Otherwise, 500 million is a small price for 3-4 years of time saved
     
  14. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Spike failed in trails due to similar issues which plagued the NAG before, The reason everyone went for Javelin given ToT is there, Now Americans were not ready for such tot transfer involving 'algorithms for guidance'.then these people went back for Spike.

    The spike which failed in earlier trails but Israeli were ready for Tot transfer, Now the IA brass knows that the missile won`t work in hottest desert condition but in other seasons so they gave green for the purchase of spikes, As their were no other alternatives available.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Meanwhile DRDO was already working on such technology and succeeded with NAG in latter trails and now similar seeker only smaller will be applied on Infantry version of NAG, Hence the Spike deal is cancelled ..

    ==========

    Btw, AT-5 and Millan both are launched by Indian designed so call 'flame' universal launcher for both infantry and vehicle use, firing all three anti-tank missiles and it has night vision capabilities with necessary attachments ..

    [​IMG]
     
  15. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    I am surprised that Israeli-made Spike, which one would expect to be designed and developed for use in hot desert areas, considering the local geography, did not work during the trials, but the Amreeki javellin would work.
     
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  16. Vinod DX9

    Vinod DX9 Regular Member

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    Javelin or SPIKE which is more destructive?
     
  17. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Both carry more or less same size of warhead with top attack mode ..

     
  18. proud_indian

    proud_indian Regular Member

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    [​IMG]

    In reality, the MPATGM has been under development since 2009 by the DRDL, with VEM Technologies being responsible for product engineering development. Raytheon has already secured US approval for 97% transfer-of-technology (ToT) for licence-producing the missile’s cooled mid-wave imaging infra-red (MWIIR) seeker, and will withhold only the target acquisition algorithms. Both Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) and Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) will be responsible for the joint development ofthermobaric-HEDP and HE/FRAG penetration-cum-blast warheads, while the re-usuable launchers and missiles will be built by both VEM Technologies and BDL. A cooled MWIIR sensor can passively lock-on to targets at up to 50% farther range than an uncooled sensor, thus allowing the firing crew greater and safer standoff distance, and less likely to be exposed to counter-fire. An uncooled long-wave infra-red (LWIR) sensor on the other hand brings increased repairs, decreased operational availability, and dangerous vulnerabilities, while a cooled IIR sensor saves lives, lessens fratricide, minimises collateral damage, lowers risk, and protects its firing platforms/crew. Present plans call for equipping the Indian Army’s existing 356 infantry battalions of the 1.13 million-strong Indian Army and the projected 30 infantry battalions to be raised in the 13th five-year defence plan (2018-2022) with some 6,000 MPATGM launchers and up to 26,000 missile-rounds (including war wastage reserves).

    [​IMG]

    A similar practice had earlier led to the development of the 4km-range Nag ATGM and its air-launched HELINA variant. Back in 2005, the IA had ordered443 Nag missiles and 13 NAMICA tracked carrier/launch vehicles, and is expected to order another 7,000 Nag missiles and around 200 NAMICAs. The 4km-range Nag uses a RCI-developed uncooled LWIR sensor containing an IR-CCD supplied by France-based ULIS/Sofradir. For the 6km-range HELINA, the DRDO has developed a two-way RF command-video data-link. The missile-to-helicopter down-link used to pass the LWIR seeker video works in the S band and the helicopter-to-missile up-link to pass steering commands works in the C band. In addition, a DS-SS modulation scheme is used for the command up-link while a conventional FM technique is used for video down-link, respectively.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  19. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    DRDO developed its own seekers as the other seekers were incapable of seeing in the 59 degree celsius heat of desert. So, it is now DRDO supplied seekers in NAG.

    The problem I see in miniaturization is that NAG uses 3 seekers, optimised for different scenarios so as to be compatible with all scenarios - be it cold, heat, moist etc. Since MPATGM is small in size, how can all three seekers be incorporated? Also, what will happen to the manufacturing unit set up in Hyderabad by Israel-Kalyani group?
     
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  20. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Anti tank missile deal cancelled[​IMG]

    Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk
     

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