Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by bennedose, Jun 10, 2014.
Taftan bombing toll rises to 30 - thenews.com.pk
Pakistan is killing Muslims.
But what can we expect from a country which is created by Pork eater and Wine drinker.
Pakistan is a dangerous country for Muslims.
this is the reason iran yesterday fired dozens of rocket at balonchistan.
The truth must triumph over hatred | Fatah | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun
From what I've heard, the official estimate of 21 dead is just that, an example of sialkot statistics, in other words, made up. The toll is likely much higher
Pakistan is in a state of total confusion.
Are Shias not Muslims?
This time I will agree with you, we are confused and being mislead by the mullahs. We used to be a very tollerant society few decaded ago. My family is core but moderate sunni and as a kid I used to attend shiah festivities with our shiah neighbors in the holy months of Muharram and Shabaan and my mother attented their 'majlis'. We did not chant or mourn but just set there to pay respect to the rites. I ofcourse was waitng for the haleem, meethi tikki and kheer to be served.
What happened to this once so tollerant society is the rise of Arab influence and political interference in Pakistani affairs, specially by the Saudis. Madrassahs set by them didnot only train mujahideen to fight jihad on Afghanistan, they also brainwashed our mullaha and youth to fight non sunnis.
Jinnah and Bhutto were shiahs but it never matterd and the clashes were always small and restricted to the holy month of Muharram. But today we have become a proxy to Saudi and Irani religious war who are trying to control the clergy in Pakistan.
Yes we are a confused nation today and worst thing is the arrogance that we individually take the divine right to decide who is a true muslim today and who is not.
RIP to the dead
More than the confusion, what seems to be a bigger problem emerging is the neglect of the Shia killing from the political discourse, and what this is translating into is polarisation at the core of populace, and an emerging apathy towards these killings over all with general acceptance for it.
There was this fine article which articulated that it was easy for Pakistan to discard the Ahmedis, also rubbished as qadianis, as garbage, but to do the same with the Shia will come with very painful repercussions, and heavy costs. You have Iran right across, a country that won't let their faith brothers end up the way they are, then Shias have had a big hand in making Pakistan what it is, a lot of them are in positions that matter, and they won't let go off without a fight if it were to come to that.
The most unfortunate thing about hate is, if you take away the factor that generates that hate, by then hating has become a habit, and this then gets directed elsewhere. Take India out from the Pakistani perspective, and that hate is going to manifest in various forms, possibly a larger part directed internally, until and unless Pakistan creates another hyperbole for hatred. The other, since Islam was a guiding principle for the creation of Pakistan, the Islamists with the passage of time are only going to go more orthodox in their views, and their ability to influence the mass is going to be that much more.
It is not about voting in these extremists, that gets argued, suggesting no one seems to be voting for them, so no mass appeal, what keeps happening silently is the general mass keeps getting swayed by more orthodox point of views, what was not acceptable a generation back, is acceptable now, and what was acceptable back then, is no more now, in the mean time, the extremist has gone more extreme with his, and the transition continues, imagine the extent of normal argument by an average Sunni in Pakistan in another decade's time from today if this person as a kid today doesn't get to mingle up with Shias as you did when you were a kid. What you find as unacceptable today, could very well be the norm, and a point of view held today will be seen as too liberal to keep with and with passage of time be discarded, that is a normal evolution process.
Stretch this thought a little further, today the extremists call out a Shia as a non-muslim, what if in another generation's time, this idea gets a wider acceptance? How is Pakistan the going to safe card itself against this huge challenge? Far deeper than just being confusion.
Neo you are saying the usual things that Pakistanis say without examining the truth about Pakistan. YOUR family may have been moderate but Pakistani society at large were never moderate from the outset.
The anti-Ahmediya movement started in Pakistan in 1952 - just 5 years after Pakistan was created and long before East Pakistan rebelled against racist intolerane from West Pakistan. Are Ahmedis Muslims or not? And so what if they are not Muslims? Pakistani passport application forms apparently ask one to declare if one is Ahmedi and even Abdus sattar's grave has been desecrated.
This intolerance for Ahmedis ran alongside anti Hindu and anti Sikh sentiment. You can say what you like but please don't spout this typical Pakstani lie that Pakistan had a "tolerant society" Many Pakistanis may have been individually tolerant - but they have been beaten into silence by an intolerant sunni Muslim Pakistan. Just because there are naive/uninformed people here who will talk to a Pakistan and believe what he says does not mean that ignorance or bluffs need tobe tolerated.
And please don't blame the Mullahs - the usual targets. Your famous army generals and leaders are equally complicit in selective genocide.
Anyone who bothers reading independently about Pakistan wil understand that "tolerance" to non Sunni Muslims is non existent in Pakistan. The opulation of Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in Pakistan has been gradually decimat from over 15% to about 3%.
One of the most famous pilots of the PAF who led a successful air raid on Pathankot in 1965 and destroyed Indian MiGs on the ground (Air Commodore Sajad Haider) was arrested many years later and tried for treason where it was alleged that the PAF was being destabilized by Ahmedis. This is there in his autobiography.
It is compete and utter nonsense to claim that Pakistani society is tolerant. They are tolerant mainly to sunni Deobandis. Even sunni Barelvis and the sufi tradition of Sindh is being attacked by these bigoted, murderous liars. Many educated Pakistanis are in denial or they are too scare to speak up. Pakistan is a bullshit country that has survived too long by saying India and Indians are bullshit - we Pakis are the best. Indians (and Americans) are idiots to have beleievd that.
You can just see the denial and lies from Pakistan in the last 5 days. Karachi was attacked and on the same day Shias were killed. The Sunni leader Hafiz Saeed blamed India even after the TTP claimed responsibility. But everyone was wacthing Karachi. No one is even talking about the shias who were killed. What a pathetic pretence of a nation. It really needs to be broken up into governable and decent parts.
Relentless killing of Shia Muslims in Pakistan â€“ by Anita Joshua (The Hindu)
Even Senators endorse that Shias are kaffir!
@Neo This confusion is funded by saudis.
And perpetuated and not corrected by Pakistanis. There is always one person to pay and the other person to accept payment. Pakistanis are not killing shias against their will. They are only pretending that theirs is a "tolerant society" and everyone is "confused" about why Shias are being killed.
This is utter crap.
Hundreds of shias being killed in Pakistan. What's the confusion? When Indians are accused of killing people in Kashmir there is no confusion. It is Hindus killing Muslims. How does confusion suddenly arise when Shias are killled by Sunnis in Pakistan? There is an entire jihadi group - the Lashkar e Jhangvi dedicated to killing of Shias. What is the confusion about that?
Let me not hear this nonsensical non existent "confusion". "Oh we Pakis are so nice and gentle and tolerant. We would like to stick a carnation behind the ear, hold hands and sing "Kumbaya my love" with Shias - and we are so confused when they get killed." If it wasn't murderous the story would be funny.
"How do you control someone when they don't care about their own head?"
Or so goes a line in Carlotta Gall's new book 'The Wrong Enemy' This was in reference to the Taliban in Afghanistan, but it can be applied to quite a few people in Pakistan as well, no?
How does one enforce the writ of the state when the dominant ideology is specifically geared toward negating the one real source of the state's power, its monopoly on violence? Leaving aside for the time being the fact that in its gross mishandling of governance, the Pakistani state cannot even claim this monopoly, How do you threaten a man to comply when he feeds off of that threat? You can't. You either change his attitude or you eliminate him. Neither of these options is halaal because it would mean accepting defeat and the inherent contradiction of your ideology rendering it self-destructive in the long run. One only needs a rudimentary understanding of Kant's Categorical Imperative to validate the truth of that statement. (Maybe I will write a little more on that later)
"In the long run, everyone is dead, but Islam will get you there faster." - BridgeSeller
What does this have to do with the Shias in Pakistan? Well. I am going to assume that we don't need our hands held and will say this: The discussion of whether Shias are Muslim or not is moot. There are people who are targeting them in Pakistan for whatever reason and... There is no one to stop them because no one wants to. Indeed, there may not be a way to do so even if the political will existed. You can't negotiate with a yahoo that wants his head to roll all the way to the feet of those promised 72 houries. In fact why would you? He's doing your job for you. Godspeed, amirite?
Muslims are not safe in this Islamic Caliphate of Pakistan.
60,000+ innocent Muslims and children butchered by evil Pak Army on the orders of white master since WOT.
Are you drunk? How come such truth coming outta your mouth?
But you didn't admit the biggest mistake ie. doing Islamic terrorism to bleed India but you are bleeding now.
Let me quote a passage from my ebook
Separate names with a comma.