Doubt cast on Pakistan's battle claims

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Rage, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    We may have pathological liars for neighbours. Ofcourse such simulation is common in the discourse among states, but when you lend credence to the speculation by others by consistently publishing figures inflated, unverifiable and un-verified allowable for enemy casualties in a bid to shore up your 'aid' in the 'war against terror', and suspiciously low figures for your own troops, then something's gone amiss, and cuzin, huntin' ain't good.


    Doubt cast on Pakistan's battle claims

    West Point Report; Taliban said to have vacated Waziristan


    Peter Goodspeed, The National Post
    Published: Wednesday, December 23, 2009


    [​IMG]
    Banaras Khan, AFP, Getty Images
    Taliban supporters in May protested Pakistan's military offensive in the Swat Valley.



    While Pakistan's Prime Minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, has claimed a military offensive in South Waziristan is over and successful, a new study published by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is far less enthusiastic.

    It suggests there is little evidence of heavy fighting in the area because "it appears most militants fled in the face of the government advance."

    The fact the Pakistan army telegraphed its intention to launch an offensive for almost four months before sending troops into South Waziristan on Oct. 17, allowed the bulk of the Pakistani Taliban to withdraw and disperse to neighbouring tribal areas, the study says.


    The Pakistan government claims to have killed 589 Taliban terrorists during the offensive and says 79 of its troops were killed in action, but the study says it is difficult to confirm those claims.

    "It was impossible for the media to independently confirm both the military and Taliban claims of casualties due to the lack of access to the conflict zone, disrupted lines of communication and the dislocation of almost all of the civilian population from the area," said Rahimullah Yusufzai, the security analyst who wrote the report.

    Spokesmen for the Taliban insist the hardline Islamists executed a "tactical retreat" from their strongholds in South Waziristan. They also claim that while the Pakistan army occupies the major roads in South Waziristan, they remain entrenched in the surrounding forests and mountains.

    Still, the report says the Taliban's retreat did not appear to be well organized since they left behind heavy weapons and even cooked food, suggesting they fled in a hurry.

    "Lending credence to the TTP's [Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan] claims about a tactical retreat, the government has so far failed to kill or arrest any senior TTP leaders," the study says .

    "Even by accepting the military's claims of 589 Taliban fighters killed, it is clear that the majority of fighters -- numbering in the thousands -- were able to escape and will likely continue to pose a threat," Mr. Yusufzai said.

    The study suggests Taliban fugitives and as many as 1,500 foreign fighters may have relocated to the Orakzai Agency tribal area to the north. This is where Hakimullah Mehsud used to command a wing of the TTP before he took control of the organization in South Waziristan after the group's founder, Baitullah Mehsud, was killed by a U.S. drone last August.

    The Pakistan Taliban have retreated, replicating tactics used by the Afghan Taliban, the study says. Now, they can be expected to employ guerrilla tactics to harass advancing troops and attack remote outposts.

    The Taliban have also retaliated by carrying out suicide bombings and other attacks in Pakistan's urban centres.

    For its part, Pakistan's military says it is concentrating on clearing militants from captured territory in South Waziristan and hopes to restore public services in the region in time to allow local tribespeople to return to their homes in April.

    But Mr. Yusufzai predicts the region could slide into a prolonged insurgency and counter-insurgency.

    "The struggle is far from over," Mr. Yusufzai said. "The TTP has proved through its unrelenting campaign of terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities that its capabilities have not been fully degraded.

    "Its success in hitting high-security military targets through complex suicide assaults proves that it can continue to launch operations," he said.


    Doubt cast on Pakistan's battle claims
     
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  3. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    the PA is only acting in south waziristan where as north is not touched and north is where most of the alqaeda people are sitting. PA is only doing the minimum to appease the USA, who have linked their aid to the action on the ground.
    it is well known from the SU invasion, the fighters retreat when army steps in only to ambush at an opportune time. one never knows when and where and how they strike.
    moreover free media is not present to backup the PA's version of the events.
    even the 589 members killed may include mostly civilians, a fact which may be hidden.
    safe to accept the above report going by the dubious distinction of PA's reluctance, selective action and its plans of using the same groups for a perceived geo strategic game.
     
  4. Pintu

    Pintu New Member

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    AFP: Pak president certain of victory over militants

    Pak president certain of victory over militants

    (AFP) – 2 hours ago

    WASHINGTON — Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari assured his US supporters that his government was determined to carry on with the fight against Islamic militants until victory is achieved.

    "We will not let militants violently impose their political agenda on the people," Zardari wrote in an op-ed article in The Wall Street Journal.

    "Political ownership of the war against terrorism rests with the people of Pakistan for the first time," he continued. "We are in the front trenches of this war while the community of nations stands with us."

    Much of the article is dedicated to the memory of Zardari's wife, Benazir Bhutto, the first woman to become prime minister of a Muslim country, who was assassinated on December 27, 2007 after addressing an election rally in Rawalpindi, a garrison city near the capital Islamabad.

    Zardari said that Bhutto had died confronting "the forces of tyranny and terrorism, and Pakistan remains committed to the struggle that she led."

    He pointed out that the Pakistani army had reclaimed the Swat and Malakand regions from the militants.

    "We have taken the fight against militants to other areas, including South Waziristan in our Federally Administered Tribal Areas, and to our major cities, and we will win this war against them," he stressed.
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    after billions spent and in aid, and 8 years USA must clearly be seeing this and possibly working on striking at the heart of Taliban country.
     
  6. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I still dont see that LF...America will be losing their only strategic base in the middle of the most populous and dangerous part of the world.
     
  7. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    What America and the rest of the western world rally needs to understand is that Waziristan is but the face of the monster it's body is spread all over pakistan; by removing the TTP from Waziristan(if true) you manage only to disfigure it's face the rest of the body remains healthy and strong. no fight against the Taliban or Al-Qaeda can be won without tacking their financial and ideological backers in Karachi, Islamabad and Rawalpindi among other places, Similarly the fight cannot be restricted to the TTP alone but must also target it's ideological and spiritual brothers in the JuD and HM among others.
     
  8. sky

    sky Regular Member

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    hillary clinton on her last visit to pakistan spoke of a trust deficit which exists between pak and usa.After many long years the americans have learned what india has said for a while now,pakistan plays a double game.

    Because pakistan is vital to america on wot, the pakistan army will have lots of new toys for years to come.The only silver lining i see is, the pak ecconomy is fast going down the pan.This means they will have to spend even more of there taxpayers money to keep up with india. The goi should increase the defence budget by at least 25% this year on modernization of the 3 services.
     
  9. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    The article is hugely revealing. Particularly with respect to their 'projection' of offensives, their mode of operation and the institutional ideological predominance.


    Pakistan's army: as inept as it is corrupt

    The answer to why Pakistan's mighty army seems impotent against Taliban insurgents is that it is more mafia than military.

    [​IMG] Mustafa Qadri
    guardian.co.uk, Sunday 3 May 2009 17.00 BST


    Pakistan's army: as inept as it is corrupt | Mustafa Qadri | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
     
  10. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    since when did pakistan start speaking the truth ?? this is nothing surprising . we have seen lot of so called claims by pakistan .
     
  11. Solid Beast

    Solid Beast New Member

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    The army has displaced hundreds of thousands (on top of implanting a hate for the state in them), while continuing to shelter figures like Haqqani, Mullah Omar and Hakeemullah Mehsud. Let's not even get started about what happened to Osama Bin Laden.

    Civilian casualties are probably being counted in the tally for terrorist casualties, but in all honesty Pakistan does not look like a country where terrorists are on the run and losing. It is because there is a very real duplicity within the government that people have a hard time believing such high casualty rates for Taliban. I am willing to bet that the ISI and at least half of the upper brass still view the Taliban and their minions in a strategic and positive light. Whether to fill the vacuum in Afghanistan after ISAF leaves or to generate military aid in the current situation, the way I've seen this war progress there is no doubt in my mind that the Pakistani establishment is doing things half hearted, trying to gain out of a terrible situation it created, at the expense of innocents.

    Like some of you pointed out, this region can never be stabilized until those who harboured, aided, set up and nourished the Taliban starting in the 80s (who in many cases are still powerful individuals) are punished and imprisoned, or sent for war crime trials abroad. There is a chance they are doing the same this very day.
     

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