Don't carry out attacks inside Pakistan as it is not jihad

Ray

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I fail to understand why Pakistanis have to bring religion into everything.

Pakistan's History has been a case study of turmoil and power struggle, notwithstanding that Islam is the common binding factor on which Pakistan came into being.

At Independence, it was a struggle between the feudal and rustic peasantry 'sons of the soil' i.e. the natives of the land that became Pakistan and the Indian Muslim refugees or Mohajirs.

The 'sons of the soil' were basically those in the Army, the feudal landlords, the jagirdars and the peasantry.

The Mohajir were the intelligentsia, the educated, the bureaucrats, the judiciary, those who were in commerce

There the first schism occurred since Pakistan was 'taken over' by the refugees and the 'sons of the soil' marginalised.

The Mohajirs were looked upon as the usurpers of the land and the country. Indeed, they were rootless and actually had no connect with the land of Pakistan except for the concept that it was a new and crafted haven for the Indian Muslim of undivided India, where they would not have the feeling of being swamped by the Hindu majority. Beyond that, there was no connect.

Yet educated and wise that the Mohajirs were, they engineered a platform that gave them the edge, and at the same time, cut deep into the superiority the 'sons of the soil' wanted to have as magnanimous hosts, who should call the shots.

Hence, the brought Islam to the forefront and everything revolved around Islam, though Jinnah had a shy at 'secular concepts' as enunciated in his speech to the Constituent Assembly on 11 Aug 1947. Now, no Muslim of Pakistan could contest this edict of Islam being the core of Pakistani ethos. Thus, the first stage of equalising the advantage of the 'son of the soil' was complete.

That was not enough to put the 'sons of the soil' in their place. The Mohajirs cleverly brought in Urdu, their language, as the National Language, when Arabic should have been the natural choice.

Hence, the Mohajirs ensured their prime position in Pakistan, and anyway, after all, Pakistan was brought about into being by a Mohajir i.e. Jinnah!

The 'sons of the soil' thus were cheated of their rightful place and they were seething.

Kashmir came as a manna to the 'sons of the soil'.

There Army was unleashed into Kashmir and they 'sons of the soil' who were the Army were vindicated and portrayed themselves as the real 'saviour of Pakistan'.

Thereafter, Pakistan has been a seesaw battle between the Mohajirs and the 'sons of the soil' interspersed by assassination, overthrowing of Govts by the military, and so on.

Had Musharraf not being a Mohajir, he would not have suffered the ignominy of being arrested and jailed inspite of being in the most powerful organisation of Pakistan, which calls the shot, namely the Army. The battle between the Mohajirs and the 'sons of the soil' continues, though more subtly.

Muslims in Pakistan are historical animals. They actually believe in the Islamic history. That is why they have added a new historical dimension to their existence - the historical divide that occurred when the Islamic prophet Muhammad died in the year 632, leading to a dispute over succession to Muhammad as a caliph of the Islamic community spread across various parts of the world which led to the Battle of Siffin, where the Sunnis believe that Abu Bakr, the father of Muhammad's wife Aisha, was Muhammad's rightful successor and that the method of choosing or electing leaders (Shura) endorsed by the Quran is the consensus of the Ummah, (the Muslim community), while the Shiites believe that Muhammad divinely ordained his cousin and son-in-law Ali (the father of his grandsons Hasan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali) in accordance with the command of God to be the next caliph making Ali and his direct descendants Muhammad's successors.

The result is the unending mayhem between the Sunnis and Shias in Pakistan.

It maybe noted that such mayhems do not happen in India because Indian Muslims are more aware of issues that actually affect existence.

Therefore, Hafiz Saed is barking up the wrong tree and he does not understand Pakistan. All he understands is how to keep himself in the limelight and well fed and well looked after with jihadi money!
 

Ray

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he is a Traitor!!! And Son of a Traitor!
Holding pakistani nationality Unfortunately!
Itna gussa kion?

You must not give vent to anger without explanation.

Can you explain how he is a traitor and a son of a traitor?

Is he a Mohajir?

Are you a 'son of the soil' and not a Mohajir?
 

Alpha1

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@black water
The north east region states demanding the separate state in
country not the separate country.
All militant forces in north east region of India are demanding
the development of their tribe and negotiation directly with central government of India. This is not an independence moment it is style of their negotiation.
Arunachal Pradesh[/B ]
Proposed autonomous area:
Teola country
Militant organisation:
Arunachal Dragon Force
Proposed autonomous area:
Hajong Chakma Homeland
Political organisation: All
Hajong Chakma Homeland
Movement
Assam
Proposed state: Assam
Bodoland
Militant organisation:
United Liberation Front of
Assam
, Muslim United Liberation
Tigers of Assam
,National Democratic
Front
Jammu and Kashmir (occupied/
disputed area)

Proposed state: Independent United States of Kashmir or
Merge with Pakistan
Political organisations: All
Parties Hurriyat Conference
, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
Militant organisations:
Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul- mujahideen, Jaish-e-
Mohammad
Manipur
Proposed state: Republic of
Manipur
Militant organisations:
Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People's
Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front
, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's
Revolutionary Party of
Kangleipak
Mizoram
Proposed state: Zozam
Militant organisations:
Zomi Revolutionary
Organization,Mizoram
Farmers Liberation Force Nagaland
Proposed state: Nagalim or People's Republic of
Nagaland
Government-in-exile:
Government of the People's Republic of Nagaland
Militant organisation:
National Socialist Council of Nagaland
Punjab
Proposed state: Khalistan
 

Ray

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Hamid Mir was born in Lahore, Punjab.

He is very versatile and educated. He knows Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, and English and writes columns in these languages!

Tell me, how many Pakistanis can do the same?

Can you?
 

pmaitra

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Someone please tell this Hafiz Saeed fellow, "Don't carry out attacks [HIGHLIGHT]anywhere[/HIGHLIGHT], Jihad or no Jihad!"
 

Ray

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Alpha 1

Any comment on my post at # 21

Reproducing for your comfort

I fail to understand why Pakistanis have to bring religion into everything.

Pakistan's History has been a case study of turmoil and power struggle, notwithstanding that Islam is the common binding factor on which Pakistan came into being.

At Independence, it was a struggle between the feudal and rustic peasantry 'sons of the soil' i.e. the natives of the land that became Pakistan and the Indian Muslim refugees or Mohajirs.

The 'sons of the soil' were basically those in the Army, the feudal landlords, the jagirdars and the peasantry.

The Mohajir were the intelligentsia, the educated, the bureaucrats, the judiciary, those who were in commerce

There the first schism occurred since Pakistan was 'taken over' by the refugees and the 'sons of the soil' marginalised.

The Mohajirs were looked upon as the usurpers of the land and the country. Indeed, they were rootless and actually had no connect with the land of Pakistan except for the concept that it was a new and crafted haven for the Indian Muslim of undivided India, where they would not have the feeling of being swamped by the Hindu majority. Beyond that, there was no connect.

Yet educated and wise that the Mohajirs were, they engineered a platform that gave them the edge, and at the same time, cut deep into the superiority the 'sons of the soil' wanted to have as magnanimous hosts, who should call the shots.

Hence, the brought Islam to the forefront and everything revolved around Islam, though Jinnah had a shy at 'secular concepts' as enunciated in his speech to the Constituent Assembly on 11 Aug 1947. Now, no Muslim of Pakistan could contest this edict of Islam being the core of Pakistani ethos. Thus, the first stage of equalising the advantage of the 'son of the soil' was complete.

That was not enough to put the 'sons of the soil' in their place. The Mohajirs cleverly brought in Urdu, their language, as the National Language, when Arabic should have been the natural choice.

Hence, the Mohajirs ensured their prime position in Pakistan, and anyway, after all, Pakistan was brought about into being by a Mohajir i.e. Jinnah!

The 'sons of the soil' thus were cheated of their rightful place and they were seething.

Kashmir came as a manna to the 'sons of the soil'.

There Army was unleashed into Kashmir and they 'sons of the soil' who were the Army were vindicated and portrayed themselves as the real 'saviour of Pakistan'.

Thereafter, Pakistan has been a seesaw battle between the Mohajirs and the 'sons of the soil' interspersed by assassination, overthrowing of Govts by the military, and so on.

Had Musharraf not being a Mohajir, he would not have suffered the ignominy of being arrested and jailed inspite of being in the most powerful organisation of Pakistan, which calls the shot, namely the Army. The battle between the Mohajirs and the 'sons of the soil' continues, though more subtly.

Muslims in Pakistan are historical animals. They actually believe in the Islamic history. That is why they have added a new historical dimension to their existence - the historical divide that occurred when the Islamic prophet Muhammad died in the year 632, leading to a dispute over succession to Muhammad as a caliph of the Islamic community spread across various parts of the world which led to the Battle of Siffin, where the Sunnis believe that Abu Bakr, the father of Muhammad's wife Aisha, was Muhammad's rightful successor and that the method of choosing or electing leaders (Shura) endorsed by the Quran is the consensus of the Ummah, (the Muslim community), while the Shiites believe that Muhammad divinely ordained his cousin and son-in-law Ali (the father of his grandsons Hasan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali) in accordance with the command of God to be the next caliph making Ali and his direct descendants Muhammad's successors.

The result is the unending mayhem between the Sunnis and Shias in Pakistan.

It maybe noted that such mayhems do not happen in India because Indian Muslims are more aware of issues that actually affect existence.

Therefore, Hafiz Saed is barking up the wrong tree and he does not understand Pakistan. All he understands is how to keep himself in the limelight and well fed and well looked after with jihadi money!
 

Ray

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@black water
The north east region states demanding the separate state in
country not the separate country.
All militant forces in north east region of India are demanding
the development of their tribe and negotiation directly with central government of India. This is not an independence moment it is style of their negotiation.
Arunachal Pradesh[/B ]
Proposed autonomous area:
Teola country
Militant organisation:
Arunachal Dragon Force
Proposed autonomous area:
Hajong Chakma Homeland
Political organisation: All
Hajong Chakma Homeland
Movement
Assam
Proposed state: Assam
Bodoland
Militant organisation:
United Liberation Front of
Assam
, Muslim United Liberation
Tigers of Assam
,National Democratic
Front
Jammu and Kashmir (occupied/
disputed area)

Proposed state: Independent United States of Kashmir or
Merge with Pakistan
Political organisations: All
Parties Hurriyat Conference
, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
Militant organisations:
Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul- mujahideen, Jaish-e-
Mohammad
Manipur
Proposed state: Republic of
Manipur
Militant organisations:
Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People's
Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front
, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's
Revolutionary Party of
Kangleipak
Mizoram
Proposed state: Zozam
Militant organisations:
Zomi Revolutionary
Organization,Mizoram
Farmers Liberation Force Nagaland
Proposed state: Nagalim or People's Republic of
Nagaland
Government-in-exile:
Government of the People's Republic of Nagaland
Militant organisation:
National Socialist Council of Nagaland
Punjab
Proposed state: Khalistan


You forgot the One Man Army - Pakistan sponsored ISI and terrorists!

Now tell me how many of them you have mentioned are doing anything beyond being just a label?

Unlike India, Pakistan is facing genuine Pakistanis who are overground decimating Pakistan. Every day there is a bomb blast and by those who are over ground!

What have you to say, Alpha male?
 
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Alpha1

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Itna gussa kion?

You must not give vent to anger without explanation.

Can you explain how he is a traitor and a son of a traitor?

Is he a Mohajir?

Are you a 'son of the soil' and not a Mohajir?
It has something to do with his Ideas, :lol: nothing about RACE etc
 

Bangalorean

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You forgot the One Man Army - Pakistan sponsored ISI and terrorists!

Now tell me how many of them you have mentioned are doing anything beyond being just a label?

Unlike India, Pakistan is facing genuine Pakistanis who are overground decimating Pakistan. Every day there is a bomb blast and by those who are over ground!

What have you to say, Alpha male?
Pakis will be Pakis. The fellow has mentioned Khalistan also and so many movements which have long since died out.

The fact of the matter is, their country is on the verge of disintegration, and it is purely due to their Islam-craze.

Yet, it is the hallmark of a Paki to talk half-baked crap about India even if they are up to their necks in shit themselves. Even when a Paki is on his deathbed he will talk of old separatist movements in India and "Muslim problems".
 

Ray

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It has something to do with his Ideas, :lol: nothing about RACE etc
Apart from this irrelevant statement, you have failed to answer any of my posts.

I am not surprised, since you have nothing to refute, but for imaginative hallucinations from Afghanistan's best!
 

Blackwater

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@black water
The north east region states demanding the separate state in
country not the separate country.

All militant forces in north east region of India are demanding
the development of their tribe and negotiation directly with central government of India. This is not an independence moment it is style of their negotiation.

[B]Arunachal Pradesh[/B ]:rofl::rofl:
Proposed autonomous area:
Teola country
Militant organisation:
Arunachal Dragon Force
Proposed autonomous area:
Hajong Chakma Homeland
Political organisation: All
Hajong Chakma Homeland
Movement
Assam
Proposed state: Assam
Bodoland
Militant organisation:
United Liberation Front of
Assam
, Muslim United Liberation
Tigers of Assam
,National Democratic
Front
Jammu and Kashmir (occupied/
disputed area)

:rofl::rofl:
Political organisations: All
Parties Hurriyat Conference
, Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front
Militant organisations:
Lashkar-e-Toiba, Harkat-ul- mujahideen, Jaish-e-
Mohammad
Manipur
Proposed state: Republic of
Manipur
Militant organisations:
Hmar People's Convention–Democrat, Manipur People's
Liberation Front, United National Liberation Front
, Revolutionary People's Front of Manipur, People's
Revolutionary Party of
Kangleipak
Mizoram
Proposed state: Zozam
Militant organisations:
Zomi Revolutionary
Organization,Mizoram
Farmers Liberation Force Nagaland
Proposed state: Nagalim or People's Republic of
Nagaland
Government-in-exile:
Government of the People's Republic of Nagaland
Militant organisation:
National Socialist Council of Nagaland
Punjab
Proposed state: Khalistan
most of them are not sepratist movement ,if they do any tom dick and harry can start movement.

tel me me something solid and effective sepratist movement appart from J&K
 

Alpha1

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Hamid Mir was born in Lahore, Punjab.

He is very versatile and educated. He knows Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, and English and writes columns in these languages!

Tell me, how many Pakistanis can do the same?

Can you?
I can Speak and write English, Urdu, Punjabi, German , somewhat Russian too. Hold a Red belt, avid golfer plus Chess.. Sharpshooter in Airguns ,have a 100k Diana.
- I can have bigger wheels than Hamid mir whenever i want.
All this being a Teenager still!
=====
:lol: The point is no patriotic pakistani will except Hamid mir's Propoganda!
 

pmaitra

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I can Speak and write English, Urdu, Punjabi, German , somewhat Russian too. Hold a Red belt, avid golfer plus Chess.. Sharpshooter in Airguns ,have a 100k Diana.
That is impressive.

You are indeed well read, and have good qualities.

India Pakistan debates are always filled with a lot of ding-dong-bell. If you can be level headed, you can be a good poster. We want more posters form Pakistan, but some, although initially very amiable, turned not so pleasant, and were let off. I hope you will be different.

Keep debating!
 

sayareakd

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You guys should check what is being told in your Parliament

The house was shocked to see the minister admitting that terrorists had managed to transport a huge quantity of explosives and arms in vehicles passing through a number of check-posts manned by the police, FC and even army personnel both in Ziarat and Quetta.

Chaudhry Nisar said that no-one could enter or leave hilly Ziarat without being checked by security personnel at limited entry and exit points.

He said there could be no heavier security presence in Quetta where checkposts had been set up every 100 yards and it was surprising how the terrorists managed to carry weapons and tonnes of explosive through these posts.
PPP's parliamentary leader Raza Rabbani said it appeared that the interior minister had apprehensions that terrorists were being "helped and abetted by some elements within the security apparatus"
Senators want civilian control over agencies - DAWN.COM
 

sayareakd

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I can Speak and write English, Urdu, Punjabi, German , somewhat Russian too. Hold a Red belt, avid golfer plus Chess.. Sharpshooter in Airguns ,have a 100k Diana.
- I can have bigger wheels than Hamid mir whenever i want.
All this being a Teenager still!
=====
:lol: The point is no patriotic pakistani will except Hamid mir's Propoganda!
this wont qualify you to even wear Pakistani flag.
 

Alpha1

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@Ray
For any Muslim Religion Comes first.
Religion is a type of constitution that governs a persons life at Individual and community Level!
.
Rest of your post is about Son of the Soil vs Muhajir
Fyi i have many friends whose parents are in the Armed forces and their grand parents migrated from India!
.
We dont even use the term muhajir, I dont know why people use it! Their Grandparents were Muhajir=imiggrants ;not them So why Use the word muhajir?
 
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Alpha1

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this wont qualify you to even wear Pakistani flag.
What will?
My parents didnt recieve an award from pro-Indian Bangladesh government for supporting a Seperatist movement AGAINST Pakistan!
Unlike Hamid Mir
Is that the reason you are nullifying my right to wear the pakistani flag? :sarcastic:
 

Ray

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I can Speak and write English, Urdu, Punjabi, German , somewhat Russian too. Hold a Red belt, avid golfer plus Chess.. Sharpshooter in Airguns ,have a 100k Diana.
- I can have bigger wheels than Hamid mir whenever i want.
All this being a Teenager still!
=====
:lol: The point is no patriotic pakistani will except Hamid mir's Propoganda!
That is all that you can do?

I won't tell you the number of language that I know, but then intelligence is not merely on language.

Intelligence is not merely knowledge, but interpretation

The failure to answer any of my post apart from one, is hardly indicative of your knowledge or the use of it through intelligent brain work.

Well I am a good golfer too and also a marksman!

But what of it?
 

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