Does Taiwan need nuclear weapons?

Sabir

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To be honest, i am not convinced that India has better doctors than China. With so many Indian medicine students coming to be trained in China nowadays, i really doubted India has the ability to train enough qualified doctors. No offence to Tarun, i know you always are an excellent doctor.



Yes, i expect that to happen. Just like what happened to Tibet, Tibet is still being held tightly by China. What left for India to do about Tibet is ranting, enjoy your time when you can, otherwise you will regret after being stripped of that.
I am not that much interested in the topic. Just want to say something about the highlighted part.

It is foolishness to argue who has better doctor -India or China? Members should avoid such things as that can not be proved.

The number of Indian students in other countries is increasing because of huge competition in the Indian institutes. You may be aware of the fact 'Indian Administrative Service' is considered toughest competitive examination in the world. Admission in IIM Ahmedabad is considered tougher than entering in top B-schools in USA. I dont say Indian institutes are best of all, but Seat:application ratio is too high here. Students who can pay prefer to go for Institutes in UK , Australia or other countries if they can not manage a seat in premier Indian institutes.
 

nimo_cn

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another people who is suffering
? 1st of all correct your english.
That is a good one which i accept, and thank you.

2nd for a mentally handicapped person entire world is mentally challenged and I am really sorry for mocking a mentally challenged person from mentally challenged country.
3rd , China is is one of biggest prolifirater of nuclear weapons and missile technologies. entire missile arsenal of Pakistan is made in China. so stop being an ostrich and accept the facts as they will not change.
India is the biggest proliferater of nuclear weapons because India is not allowed to develop nuclear weapons, nevertheless India set off nuclear bomb against the will of the whole world. Not just that, India started nuclear arm race in Southe Asia which put the peace of the whole world in danger.

And now you are plotting to proliferate to Taiwan, Vietnam? Then Japan, South Korea? When are you gonna stop? Who is the largest nuclear proliferater? INDIA

4th our plicy vis a vis china is not dependent on USA and no one can be our boss. You guys are used to Pakistan being your pet . wake up Its India not Pakistan and N Korea.
Why bring in Pakistan and NK? It is irrelevant, i did not say India is China's pet. We can't afford such an adorable pet.
Your statements sound like a cat has become priest and start preaching others about not killing mice.
Aren't they the ones who are driving you crazy?
 
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nimo_cn

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because you people dont have good doctors. we send students there to cure your brains
LOL, please keep on thinking that, i know that is what you are best at. It must be very comforting.

I am waiting for the proof, are you gonna give it or not?
 

jatkshatriya

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That is a good one which i accept, and thank you.



India is the biggest proliferater of nuclear weapons because India is not allowed to develop nuclear weapons, nevertheless India set off nuclear bomb against the will of the whole world. Not just that, India started nuclear arm race in Southe Asia which put the peace of the whole world in danger.

And now you are plotting to proliferate to Taiwan, Vietnam? Then Japan, South Korea? When are you gonna stop? Who is the largest nuclear proliferater? INDIA



Why bring in Pakistan and NK? It is irrelevant, i did not say India is China's pet. We can't afford such an adorable pet.


Aren't they who are driving you crazy?
yeah and who says so...China says so..lol..the world thinks otherwise beautiful(thats just a compliment..hehe),
on the other hand China supplied nuke tech to Pak ...lookwhat happenned..the world caught pak scientist red handed.....By the way China shud not support Pakistan so much...and hell China has more than double the land of India ..it took over Tibet..still it demands Arunachal pradesh and sikkim..hell if u get those states..next u will demand delhi as chinas integral part..LMAO....comeon mann..use ur brains..live and let live
 

SHASH2K2

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That is a good one which i accept, and thank you.



India is the biggest proliferater of nuclear weapons because India is not allowed to develop nuclear weapons, nevertheless India set off nuclear bomb against the will of the whole world. Not just that, India started nuclear arm race in Southe Asia which put the peace of the whole world in danger.

And now you are plotting to proliferate to Taiwan, Vietnam? Then Japan, South Korea? When are you gonna stop? Who is the largest nuclear proliferater? INDIA



Why bring in Pakistan and NK? It is irrelevant, i did not say India is China's pet. We can't afford such an adorable pet.


Aren't they who are driving you crazy?
Only thing I can do is feel pity for your lack of knowledge and IQ levels. It clearly vindicates My opinions about you. You are a troll .
 

jatkshatriya

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Ok, just give me the proof that China is having territorial dispute with South Africa. I am waiting for that proof.
Look at the military, economy and sheer size of China....all ur puny neighbours have given into Chinas demands..thats why u dont have any disputes ..Only India can stand up against u and is not giving in...so theres the dispute
 

hit&run

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You are the one who is misjudging the situaion here.
Typical Chinese trying to police around. You are not the judge here.

For the last 60 years, the relationship between Taiwan and mainland has never been better than today, and you think you can plot to proliferate nukes to Taiwan when you failed to do so before.
Don't try to act like Innocent and flag bearer of Non proliferation, It would be last thing Indians will do to listen Chinese propagandistic about nuclear non proliferation. India is pretty sorted out in this regard, sell some thing else to us we may consider to hear.

Rather enlightening (sarcasm) us all why your so called friendly Taiwan was hell bent to make nukes you have started playing acrimonious Chinese dizi of Improved relations between both.
Read me again if i have not mentioned about confused Taiwan and try to understand what does that mean before showing me your nipper outcry.

India has no say in Taiwan issue unless US allows it, and i doubt US will allow India to be involved in Taiwan issue.
Tell us something new and i have already said in my previous post. We are not drafting India's Foreign policy here but discussing the possibilities, so keep jingoism away from your muscle memory while typing same old rants.

So the most you can do is mentally masturbating yourself with the idea one day the boss will invite his mistress to the dinner, like what is happening here.
People are more informed than you here. You haven't read what i wrote but has opted to vomit out Chinese propaganda.
Grow up.
 
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ahmedsid

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MOD MESSAGE:- Guys, Let me Make it Clear again, Abusing a Fellow member, be it, Chinese or Ugandan, Is Strictly against Forum Rules. Its an offense of the Highest order and can get you into Trouble. So Please Co-operate with us. There are lots of way of winning an argument, than Abusing. Abusing someone is a Sign that you are loosing the Argument. God Speed
 

Daredevil

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India is the biggest proliferater of nuclear weapons because India is not allowed to develop nuclear weapons, nevertheless India set off nuclear bomb against the will of the whole world. Not just that, India started nuclear arm race in Southe Asia which put the peace of the whole world in danger.
Wow, I'm seeing a new definition for proliferation. From English dictionary Proliferate- to grow by rapid production of new parts, cells, buds, or offspring

Proliferation - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

First you should learn about proliferation and then talk about whether India proliferated nuke technology or not. India developed nuke bombs as a deterrent against China just like China developed nukes as a deterrent against Russia. That is not proliferation in the least bit. Proliferation of nukes is what China did with Pakistan by giving nuke technology know-how and nuke material to make bombs and not to mention ballistic missiles.

And now you are plotting to proliferate to Taiwan, Vietnam? Then Japan, South Korea? When are you gonna stop? Who is the largest nuclear proliferater? INDIA
Since China has blatantly proliferated nuke weapons to Pakistan and endangered India's security, so can India proliferate nukes to countries that not only endanger China's security but also provide protection against China's aggressive assertion on lands and seas that doesn't belong to it . Tit-for-tat, if you will.
 

neo29

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@nimo_cn

India set off its first nuke to counter China and its nuclear arsenal. It was China that introduced nukes in South Asia. India will never ever give nuclear weapons or even 1 gm of plutonium to anyone. The general public may speak so to arm Taiwan with nukes but practically its not possible. But yes India does have capability to supply arms to Vietnam and Taiwan. Not now but for sure down the line this is going to happen.

India is not proliferating nukes in any way with China's neighbors but yes we do share concerns with growing military buildup of PLA.

If you are plotting against India using the psychological string of pearls, trying to influence in IOR, then why will India stop plotting with them. We will continue to counter your ploys.
 

Tshering22

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If anyone here's thinking of Helping Taiwan out with nukes, put it to rest. They are worse than PRC in claims. If they heavens forbid come to power, they will transform entire Asia into a warzone fighting with almost even remote enemies like Mongolia and obviously us. Heck! They even claim upper half of Uttarakhand as a part of their country! PRC is hostile I agree but ROC will be worse. Unless someone third comes to rule China, I don't think we'd be getting cosy with them ANYTIME soon.

And Taiwan isn't a separate state yet to have a requirement of Nukes. Any attack on Taiwan is considered an attack on PRC and therefore nuclear attack even by CCP is out of question. Remember, CCP wants MORE LAND from all its neighbours. If it nukes them up, what will it take from them?
 
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Taiwan already indirectly has nukes:

Under the Umbrella

Under the Umbrella

In his now famous Prague speech last April, United States President Barack Obama endorsed the vision of a world without nuclear weapons. He sent a strong political signal: if repairing the fragile nuclear nonproliferation arrangements required a credible disarmament commitment by the nuclear weapons states, America was willing to lead by example. But setting that example could become much more complex if a whole host of new nuclear states is to be avoided. The American nuclear umbrella is still needed to shelter many nations, preventing them from pursuing their own nuclear paths.

tHE APPROACH OF THE UNITED STATES administration is clear. A strong commitment to arms control and nonproliferation, including hosting a summit meeting on nuclear security in April, should prepare the ground for a successful Review Conference of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, scheduled for May. Such a success would help foster a new consensus between the nuclear and non-nuclear weapons states about adopting more far-reaching nonproliferation measures.

However, maintaining effective global nonproliferation requires more than a new dynamic in arms control and disarmament. There is another dimension that will be at least as important as cutting existing nuclear arsenals: the US nuclear umbrella, America's willingness to extend nuclear deterrence to allies and friends.

While some arms controllers are quick to dismiss extended deterrence as a relic of the past and an obstacle to deep reductions of the US nuclear posture, a closer look reveals that the nuclear umbrella is still a cornerstone of a

predictable international order. Without it, the emergence of new nuclear nations would be a foregone conclusion.

Today, more than thirty nations rely on extended US deterrence, including the members of NATO, South Korea and Japan. In addition, several other states without formal defence agreements, like Australia and Taiwan, are also believed to be beneficiaries of the umbrella.

These extended commitments have become a major nonproliferation tool. American protection satisfies the security interests of allies and thus dampens any temptation to develop nuclear weapons of their own. Current developments in Asia and the Middle East demonstrate that the significance of extended deterrence has not changed. With Iran and North Korea challenging the political and military status quo in their respective regions, US security guarantees are crucial to nuclear nonproliferation.

NO LONGER TABOO

Japan is one prominent example. The country's growing nervousness about China's military rise and the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, has provoked a debate about a national nuclear option that would have been unthinkable only a few years ago.

To be sure, a short-term reversal of Japan's anti-nuclear stance remains highly unlikely. Still, the case of Japan brings home that even seemingly irreversible policy principles can change if a country is confronted with new security challenges. When faced with a fundamentally altered security landscape, yesterday's taboo can become tomorrow's mainstream view.

While Japan never actively sought nuclear weapons, most experts agree that Taiwan and South Korea once tried. Taipei and Seoul had both been laying the groundwork for a national nuclear option to hedge against a worsening regional security situation. It was only after the US intervened politically that the programmes were terminated. For the time being, at least, the US military presence in the Asia-Pacific region bridles nuclear ambitions and spares Southeast Asia a nuclear arms race.

NUCLEAR ESCALATION RISKS

The situation in the Middle East and the Gulf is far less encouraging. Since the uncovering of Iran's illicit nuclear activities in 2002, more than a dozen countries in the region

have announced the launch of civilian nuclear programmes. Many experts believe that these decisions are part of a strategy to hedge against the regional dominance of a nuclear-armed Iran. Hence, should Iran start to throw its nuclear weight around, neighbouring countries could quickly convert their civilian nuclear capabilities into military ones. Europe would then be faced with a neighbouring region where every conventional conflict would be fraught

with nuclear escalation risks. And what about Europe? Given the improving

security situation since the end of the Cold War, there has not been a debate about extended deterrence for a long time. Some analysts have warned that Turkey might flirt with a nuclear option should Iran go nuclear, but few believe Europe as a whole is facing serious proliferation pressures. However, the interest in a tangible American security commitment remains unchanged. The war between Russia and Georgia in mid 2008 made this abundantly clear. It led some of NATO's easternmost members to ask publicly for changes

in its military planning and deployments. Moreover, the desire of these countries to host American military installations on their national soil, and the nervousness they display about a prospective withdrawal of the remaining US nuclear weapons from Europe, demonstrate that what Josef Joffe has called 'Europe's American Pacifier', is still in demand. All these developments bring home what many disarmament enthusiasts dare not admit: the nonproliferation successes of the past forty years were not just a result of the nonproliferation Treaty or arms control, but also of

extended US deterrence. The nuclear abstinence of many states in pivotal geopolitical

regions is neither a law of nature nor the result of a universal nonproliferation norm. Rather, these nations bank their security on a predictable international system. And, irrespective of the new debate about a 'post-American' world, that system is still being upheld by the US.

Washington's nuclear policy thus faces a dilemma. In order to pursue long-term nonproliferation goals, the US and the other nuclear weapons states need to make a credible commitment to nuclear disarmament; yet the current nuclear reality requires credible US extended deterrence.

If the US were to reduce or even end its role as a nuclear protector, this could result in the largest wave of proliferation since the dawn of the nuclear era. That is why the US needs to take great care in phasing prospective nuclear reductions in such as way as not to cast doubt about its willingness and ability to keep the nuclear umbrella open.

A delicate balancing act indeed. Perhaps it explains why Obama, in his Prague call for the elimination of nuclear weapons, prefaced his optimistic 'yes, we can' with a less self-assured 'we must insist'. A small change in rhetoric, yet it says more about the challenges ahead than any lengthy think tank study.
 

Illusive

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I agree with Tshering22 , nukes are not toys that can be handed on to anybody, thats where China did the mistake by giving the tech to Pakistan,its like giving a caveman an AK-47, we can't repeat it. We can help Taiwan in other ways like having co-develop projects and maybe joint military exercises to know them better.
 
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Instead of going after these smaller countries just work with USA who is interested in the same thing.
 

neo29

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^^^^^^
US just has vested interest with everyone, but the smaller countries in South Asia do have actual problems with China just like us. We surely need to join hands with them.
 

anoop_mig25

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If anyone here's thinking of Helping Taiwan out with nukes, put it to rest. They are worse than PRC in claims. If they heavens forbid come to power, they will transform entire Asia into a warzone fighting with almost even remote enemies like Mongolia and obviously us. Heck! They even claim upper half of Uttarakhand as a part of their country! PRC is hostile I agree but ROC will be worse. Unless someone third comes to rule China, I don't think we'd be getting cosy with them ANYTIME soon.

And Taiwan isn't a separate state yet to have a requirement of Nukes. Any attack on Taiwan is considered an attack on PRC and therefore nuclear attack even by CCP is out of question. Remember, CCP wants MORE LAND from all its neighbours. If it nukes them up, what will it take from them?
can u provide link 4 ur claim. i am just qurieous here:happy_2:
 

pmaitra

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If anyone here's thinking of Helping Taiwan out with nukes, put it to rest. They are worse than PRC in claims. If they heavens forbid come to power, they will transform entire Asia into a warzone fighting with almost even remote enemies like Mongolia and obviously us. Heck! They even claim upper half of Uttarakhand as a part of their country! PRC is hostile I agree but ROC will be worse. Unless someone third comes to rule China, I don't think we'd be getting cosy with them ANYTIME soon.

And Taiwan isn't a separate state yet to have a requirement of Nukes. Any attack on Taiwan is considered an attack on PRC and therefore nuclear attack even by CCP is out of question. Remember, CCP wants MORE LAND from all its neighbours. If it nukes them up, what will it take from them?
Interesting point. I did not know/realise that Taiwan ROC had such claims. Do you mind providing some pointers that one can do some reading up on?

BTW, I think the northern half of Uttarkhand you are refering to is basicaly Lahaul and Spiti region that is beyind the Nathu-La Pass. Please correct me I am wrong.
 

ajtr

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Myth about our nuclear development program


By Lai I-chung 賴怡忠
Thursday, Sep 16, 2010, Page 8

A few days ago, on the eve of the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks on the US, several media outlets re-ran an old story that the administration of former president Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) had planned to develop nuclear weapons. This time the media sought to back up their story by quoting from Catalytic Diplomacy, the second portion of Jeremy Stone's memoirs, former president of the Federation of American Scientists.

The story in question first arose in October 2007, when then-Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) legislator Su Chi (蘇起), who later served as secretary-general of the National Security Council, claimed that Chen's Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) administration had been in contact with a certain nuclear power and had invited a former defense minister of that country to visit Taiwan.

Following up on Su's statement, Hong Kong-based current affairs magazine Yazhou Zhoukan reported that the person in question was former Indian defense minister George Fernandes, and that he had come to Taiwan for secret talks about nuclear weapons on the invitation of Taiwan Thinktank.

First, let's get the facts straight. Since I have in the past served as director of Taiwan Thinktank's international affairs department and also as director of the DPP's Department of Chinese Affairs, I think I ought to be as clear as anyone about how Fernandes was invited to Taiwan. His 2007 visit was an open affair. He was invited not by Taiwan Thinktank, but by the DPP to take part in a forum on the rise of democracy in Taiwan. Taiwan Thinktank did invite Fernandes to the country earlier — in late 2004 to take part in a forum on democratic cooperation between Taiwan, Japan and India. Both these forums were entirely open affairs and Su's version of the events is seriously at variance with the facts. Another participant was Henry Hyde, former chairman of the US House of Representatives' Committee on Foreign Affairs. Is Su implying that Hyde also supports Taiwan developing nuclear weapons?

As everyone knows, developing nuclear weapons requires a massive support system. Getting hold of uranium is no simple matter, still less reprocessing and enriching it to produce weapons-grade fuel. Even if you can get weapons-grade uranium, it doesn't mean you can build nuclear bombs. How could North Korea and Pakistan get hold of nuclear weapons without support from China? Taiwan couldn't get nuclear weapons unless it bought them from a rogue state that was willing to sell them.

What Su said amounts to suggesting that Taiwan has had nuclear dealings with rogue states or shady organizations. That makes the matter pretty serious. The record needs to be set straight here and now, otherwise it could have unthinkable consequences for Taiwan.

That said, not having nuclear weapons doesn't mean we can't talk about strategies for responding to nuclear threats. It is, after all, a serious strategic problem facing this country. Even in Japan, which has long stuck to the Three Non-Nuclear Principles of not having or making nuclear weapons or allowing them on its territory, Taro Aso, when he was foreign minister, said discussion about whether Japan should acquire nuclear weapons should not be suppressed.

China has never declared that it won't use nuclear weapons against Taiwan. We obviously need to think about how to respond to this threat, but how can that be twisted into saying that Taiwan plans to develop its own nuclear weapons?



Lai I-chung is an executive committee member of Taiwan Thinktank. Catalytic Diplomacy is available online.
 

Tshering22

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can u provide link 4 ur claim. i am just qurieous here.

Interesting point. I did not know/realise that Taiwan ROC had such claims. Do you mind providing some pointers that one can do some reading up on?

BTW, I think the northern half of Uttarkhand you are refering to is basicaly Lahaul and Spiti region that is beyind the Nathu-La Pass. Please correct me I am wrong.

Go to Google Images and search for Taiwan (Republic of China's) territorial claims. You will get their political map which shows war-like disputes with a dozen bordering countries out of 15.

And Lahaul and Spiti is also a part of India if you realize that it is open for trekking and the authorities pass only those with INDIAN passports to go there as "domestic tourists". Others require formal tourist visa. Also it is a part of Himachal's border with China and has nothing to do with Uttarakhand.

Here, for your reference is the Wiki map that shows the region:

HTML:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/HimachalPradeshLahaulSpiti.png
 
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