Yup!Mods change the thread to a more suitable location! I screwed it up!
I just found out this videos they gave valuable details.............. so I posted it!
I think you know who occupy GAZA and WEST BANK if you don't know GAZA is occupied by Egypt and WEST BANK is by Jordan!@HeinzGud
Considering Bigoted videos as "factual videos" doesn't make them factual. Particularly an old man ranting stereotypes who looks like he needs some laxatives to calm down.
As TomCat said, calling a donkey a horse doesn't make it one.
The UN, the International Court of Justice and 100+ countries consider the West Bank and Gaza as occupied territories which are Arab majority and were suppose to be an independent state. Arabs (Muslims and Christians) in these areas don't have the right to vote or even the right to move freely in these areas. While terrorism used by militant Palestinians groups is certainly condemnable and should be continued to do so; if the hard figures of civilian death tolls are looked into you will see how disproportionately high numbers are Palestinians and that too children.
If you want to read about concessions from source documents, please do read the Palestine papers that shows the extent of concessions that were given as late as 2008-09. Concessions included the biggest Jerusalem for Israel, no Palestinian armed forces and only symbolic return of refugees of around 10,000-15,000 from an estimated (400,000) Palestine Papers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Arab Peace Plan since 2002 and approved by the OIC has clearly stated that once a two state solution is established, they will RECOGNIZE Israel and establish full diplomatic and trade relations with Israel. The main points were (1) Just settlement of the Palestinians refugees who were driven out of their land in the initial war in 1948 (2) Withdrawal from the 1967 Line or West Bank and Gaza and (3) East Jerusalem as capital of the new Palestinians state. So here is a government level declaration endorsed by multilateral institution that in principle recognizes Israel conditional to the creation of a viable Palestinian state.
This is what Israel herself agreed to in the Oslo accords and what President Bush and Obama said is the eventual policy. The Quartet - UN, EU, Russia and US has made the two state solution as a fundamental pillar of the peace process. So when the entire world including Israel recognizes Palestinians and that these are the people they are negotiating with. So either the entire world are fools or the crazy old man ranting on youtube is. Pick you choice.
If you really want to learn about the conflict and give an informed discussion on the conflict. Check out the Wikipedia entry that is well maintained and gives an overview the conflict
Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The main point you raised in this thread is the question wether the Palestinians are a people who have a right to self-determination and their own state. The answer to that is Yes. And this is something that is recognised by almost every country in the world.I think you know who occupy GAZA and WEST BANK if you don't know GAZA is occupied by Egypt and WEST BANK is by Jordan!
You wanna no why Israel can't accept the 2002 OIC peace plan that's because Israel cannot give up the Golan height and I think you know why!
My concern here is not Palestinian refugees but the history of their fate! If you are sure that the videos are wrong pls post your ideas here so everyone can see!
Even leaving the against vote of US and Israel aside, both countries have endorsed the Oslo peace accords that diretly recognise the PA as the representative of the "Palestinian people"
Right of the Palestinian people to self-determination - GA vote (Plenary) - Press release (Excerpts) (19 December 2011)
The draft resolution on the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination (document A/66/461) was adopted by a recorded vote of 182 in favour to 7 against, with 3 abstentions, as follows:
In favour: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.
Against: Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Palau, United States.
Abstain: Cameroon, South Sudan, Tonga.
Absent: Kiribati
I do consider Palestinian people do have a right to self governance! But the issue I raised was really a land called Palestine exist of earth now! BTW it is also interesting to know that Palestinian do not seem interested in governing themselves if they do there would have no need for the second Intifada.The main point you raised in this thread is the question wether the Palestinians are a people who have a right to self-determination and their own state. The answer to that is Yes. And this is something that is recognised by almost every country in the world.
182 countries never agree on any thing but the General Assembly resolution regarding this which was passed recently is almost unanimously in recognising the Palestinian people and their right to self-determination. The result was 182-7
Even leaving the against vote of US and Israel aside, both countries have endorsed the Oslo peace accords that diretly recognise the PA as the representative of the "Palestinian people"
Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAnd you might need to refresh you knowledge of Palestine because currently West Bank and Gaza are controlled by the Israeli military. There have been Israeli Supreme Court rulings that have recognised settlements as illegal and built on "belligerent territory".
The Gaza Strip continued to be occupied by Egypt. At first it administered the territory through the All-Palestine Government and then directly from 1959 until 1967, when Israel occupied it following the Six-Day War. Pursuant to the Oslo Accords signed between Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization in 1993, the Palestinian Authority was set up as an interim administrative body to govern Palestinian population centres, with Israel maintaining control of Gaza Strip's airspace, all but one of its land borders and territorial waters, until a final agreement could be reached. As agreement remained elusive, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza in 2005.The Gaza Strip is one of the territorial units forming the Palestinian territories. Since July 2007, following the 2006 Palestinian legislative election and the Battle of Gaza, Hamas has functioned as the effective government in the Gaza Strip.
the sum of the above quotes are Gaza is currently governed by HAMAS and West Bank governed by Palestinian National Authoritybut following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War this area was captured by Trans-Jordan (renamed Jordan in 1949). The name "West Bank" was proposed by the Jordanian authorities to describe the area west of Jordan River. The 1949 Armistice Agreements defined its interim boundary. From 1948 until 1967, the area was under Jordanian rule, and Jordan did not officially relinquish its claim to the area until 1988, ceding its territorial claims to the PLO and eventually stripping West Bank Palestinians of Jordanian citizenship. Jordan's claim was never formally recognized by the international community, with the exception of the United Kingdom. The West Bank was occupied by Israel during the Six-Day War in June, 1967. With the exception of East Jerusalem and the former Israeli-Jordanian no man's land, the West Bank was not annexed by Israel but remained under Israeli military control. Most of the residents are Arabs, although a large number of Israeli settlements have been built in the region since 1967. Close to 500,000 Israelis live in the West Bank settlements, annexed East Jerusalem and the former Israeli-Jordanian no man's land areas.
What Nethayahu agreed accoding to your link was to establish a strategic early warning station on Mt.Hermon and this link clearly states Nethayahu denied to go back pre 1967 boader because for the obvious reason that Israel cannot commite suicide.Regarding the Golan heights, again the International law that land can't be gained by war applies. And this is something that Ehud Barak had agreed to in the 1999-2000 negotiations before his govt. fell. So it is not inconcieveble that Golan heights can be returned in return for full diplomatic relations and trade relations with all Arab League and OIC countries.
Here is a link from Pro-Israeli website regarding a deal where Netanyahu(the most right-wing PM in Israel) as well had reached an understanding of withdrawing from Golan heights in return for security guarantees. So its not an impossible task
Netanyahu Reached Agreement with Syria on Golan
Actually Philistine are not the people today called Palestine. Palestine is a Latin word for people of Philistine but today the whole world is referring the Arabs as Philistines. Which is absurd!Palestinian bashing videos really are no talking points. If you have something to debate on, lists those points and we can have a discussion. How can we have a discussion where a video says that God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people so its theirs? That is like Pakistanis claiming parts of India because of some obscure GhazwatulHind saying of the Prophet.
If you look at the official positions of the Palestinian Authority, the Arab govts. e.t.c. they are all willing to provide conditional recognition to Israel. So lets move ahead from the stereotype of all Palestinians are terrorists and trying to kill Jews as well as all Israelis are imperialists indulging in genocide of the Palestinian people and look at the facts.
I don't agree with the maximalist Palestinian position that there should be no Israel which they held until the 1993 Oslo accords. Neither the maiximalist loony right wing Israeli position that God gave all of Israel to the jews so the Palestinians (who are referred to as Philistines in their own holy books) should be removed from the lands that they have historically lived in.
The majority of both Israelis and Palestinians in various polls have supported the two state solution, it is supported by a super majority of all governments in the world. And even those who oppose it (namely ISrael and US) have been negotiating on that same premise since the Oslo accords.
So our discussion should be how we can get the two state solution that will be in Israeli interests and provide relief to the Palestinians as well from the last 60 years of suffering rather than indulging our fancies in irrelevant question of weather Palestinians exist or not.