Does India need a new right-wing party?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Sakal Gharelu Ustad, Nov 20, 2015.

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Does India need a new RW party?

  1. Yes, BJP is too socialist

    33.3%
  2. No, but BJP should be nudged to the right

    50.0%
  3. No, BJP is awesome

    29.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Some background first: http://koenraadelst.blogspot.fr/2015/11/learning-from-electoral-defeat-in-bihar.html

    Dear Friends
    The Bihar election results are out. Now there will very likely be a lot of breast-beating or apologetics on the part of the supporters of the BJP and Modi, and gleeful crowing by their opponents.
    As a consistently staunch Hindutva supporter but NOTA voter, I would like to make two points which may lead to my being heartily disliked and criticized by both sides, but then even if the truth is bitter it has to be swallowed.
    1. It was basically a battle between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Supporters of one or the other will find something or the other to put forward in defence of their support for that particular group, but the truth is both the groups are equally indifferent to Hinduism and Indian culture. Bribing or blackmailing small groups of Muslims (as in Meerut) to convert to Hinduism (and ending up with egg on our own face), talking against reservations on the one hand and bribing more and more caste groups (and powerful ones like Jats and Marathas) with reservations on the other, pointlessly using abusive language against individuals from "minority communities", banning beef and attacking isolated individuals on the grounds that they possessed, ate or sold beef, defending disgraceful "Hindus" like Asaram "Bapu" and Radhe "Maa", etc. do not constitute acts of Hindutva. Real acts of Hindutva would have been: rigorously banning conversions from Hinduism to Christianity, making article 30 of the constitution applicable to all communities and disbanding the Minorities Commission and removing gender justice laws from religious ambits and making it clear that there would be no more such discrimination on the grounds of religion, openly declaring the cultural allegiance of the Indian state to India's ancient heritage and to its true history (which requires correction), etc. These would have constituted real acts of Hindutva. And all this would have to be done not by what is being called "fringe elements" and "hotheads", but by the very fountainhead of the so-called Hindutva power-hierarchy, i.e. by the Prime Minister, who would also have been required to publicly explain the full rationale of all these things clearly, logically and unapologetically to the whole world. However we had the BJP playing its usual two-faced games, with the top bosses maintaining a frigid silence or talking in doublespeak or in fact failing to openly disown fake "Hindutva" stands while totally failing to openly endorse genuine Hindutva stands. I have noticed in all my years of association with the Sangh Parivar and its supporters that they are actually inordinately proud of their "tactic" of doublespeak and double standards (criticising the Congress for certain things and then defending exactly similar actions of the BJP)! No amount of setbacks can convince them that only honesty and genuine ideology pays!
    And not only did the BJP and its worshipping supporters not take an open and honest stand but we had the top leaders from the PM downwards making "secular" noises every time they were accused of Hindutva motives. What in my opinion took the cake was the God-given opportunity we had to make it clear to the whole world that genuine Hindutva, but not hate-ideology, was our ideology and that we were unapologetic about it. When Obama came to India and in his public address in the presence of Modi lectured to us about our treatment of "minorities" (something he would never have dared to even think of doing in, say, Saudi Arabia), it was a God-given opportunity for Modi to tell the world in Obama's presence itself (in diplomatic words of course) that treating Hindus as punching bags or as people who were permanently in the dock was now a thing of the past, and Hindus who had the most glowing history of treatment of minorities could teach the world a lot in these matters and did not require advice. But he maintained a benevolent silence and a few days later lectured Indians, in his turn, to treat the minorities better!
    What is the difference between Tweedledum and Tweedledee? When Obama cracked the whip about FDI in multi-brand retail, the then PM Manmohan Singh jumped on to a stool like a lion in some circus performance and announced that he was willing to put the future of his government at stake in his determination to enforce FDI in multi-brand retail!
    Doublespeak, double standards and two-timing games do not ensure electoral victories, as the Bihar results show.
    2. The Bihar elections were ultimately a case of "Heads you win Tails I lose" for Hindus, Hindutva and Indian culture.
    If the BJP had won, the secularist media would have shouted that it was a victory for Modi's "development agenda" and a defeat for the Hindutva "hotheads" and "fringe elements" and in fact for Hindutva or Hindu ideology itself, and the BJP would have dutifully accepted this logic and accelerated its increasing alienation and severance from Hindu ideology and pursuit of Americanisation and ruthless Capitalism= "development" Agenda.
    Since the BJP has lost, the secularist media will predictably shout that it is a massive defeat caused by the BJP's "hotheads" and "fringe elements" and in fact by its "divisive" Hindutva policy itself. And not by its rabidly anti-poor, pro-rich, anti-environmentalist, crony-capitalist, pro-American, etc. policies and not even by the spiralling prices of pulses! and, again, the BJP will dutifully accept this logic and accelerate its increasing alienation and severance from Hindu ideology and pursuit of Americanisation and ruthless Capitalism= "development" Agenda.
    Either way it was meant to be a defeat for Genuine Hindutva. And every election result will be the same so long as there is blind worship, election-oriented pseudo-Hindutva, doublespeak, dishonesty and insincerity, and where money and power mean everything and genuine Hindu causes mean nothing.
    Shrikant Talageri
     
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  3. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    So the question is- is BJP just a clone of Congress which uses Hindu votebank instead of Muslim votebank?

    Given that Muslims have been screwed by Congress and other secular parties in last 65 years. Is BJP going to do the same with Hindus? The recent non-issues that were under highlight for past few months show that BJP has not much concrete to offer to Hindus.

    This is about rocking the boat when the party has just started-i.e. Modi govt is the first full majority BJP govt since independence. But do you think it is time to realize that BJP only pays lip service to all major RW issues?

    Post your views here and discuss the dilution of RW agenda by BJP and what to do about it.
     
    TrueSpirit2 likes this.
  4. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are more RW in congress, like narsimah rao , and secular like ABV
     
    DingDong likes this.
  5. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Yes. Without a question we do. But the question is what can we do about it. Of course, since most of us are middle class with no backing nor any interest in becoming politicians, what we can do by yourself is absolutely minimal
     
  6. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Exposing BJP is the first step........................................
     
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  7. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    But once we do that, and of course everyone will eventually see it , the natural question arises- what is the alternative. Frankly, I don't see one. And without an alternative, no new right wing will rise either- a vicious cycle .
     
  8. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    yes. There is no alternative right now.

    But I expect BJP to fall apart in next elections if they continue to act in current fashion. I am only scared by the chances of AAP like shenanigan party to take centre-stage if BJP is kicked out.
     
  9. prasadr14

    prasadr14 Regular Member

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    Before that, please let us know what Hindutva agenda is and then probably we can carry on the discussion.

    I keep hearing from you and MadIndian harp about a certain Hindu agenda BJP is not fulfilling without the agenda being mentioned anywhere.

    Second, you and MadIndian are obviously pissed at BJP/RSS because of lower castes not getting more representation. fair enough. Would the "new" right wing party you and MadIndian address this?
    What about Yadav's? What's your plan to bring them into "your" fold? Please share the plan with us?
    If you give more representation to certain castes in your "new Hindutva party" other castes will be pissed...not my logic, it's yours.

    The whole issue after reading a lot of posts from you and MadIndian, I doubt you are interested in anything Hindutva. You are more interested in Caste equations and nothing else.

    Rest everything from both you is nothing but smoke screen. At least you are civil about. The other guy is abusive on top of being a......
     
  10. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    How about we vote only for hard right leaders in BJP? And we continue exposing BJP and leftist cabal and the muzzies and appeasements. Eventually the Hindu morons will have to wizen up right? Will we get a Hindu party then?

    For now that's is the only way path I see.

    And of course, without ending BJP, new RW cannot rise and so even if there is no alternative, we have no choice but to abandon BJP
     
    TrueSpirit2 likes this.
  11. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    in what sense? ...........................
     
  12. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    the agenda is to kick muslims out ...
     
  13. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Read the first post on this issue. It is a summary of Hindutva issues. They are not even hindutva issues but issues to make India truly secular.

    As far as RW is concerned, I am very bullish on economic liberalization. Given that I see few attempts by Modi in this direction, there is a serious concern on changing the discourse on poverty politics in India and role of market reforms.
     
  14. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    That they pay lip service to communal issues and do not want to solve the problem genuinely.

    Specifically, I can quote 10 things from their manifesto that are no where discussed by them now.
     
  15. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    What India needs is a moderate, centralist party, that can above all else promote UNITY. India politics is a mess and the power is way too diluted for any real action to get done swiftly. India needs a massive coalition that makes smart intelligent compromises that promote the good of the nation as a whole.

    Political parties should find common ground whenever they can and just unite instead of fighting constantly. If they stop the never-ending campaigning, infighting, attacks etc... maybe they will actually have time to do the jobs they were actually elected to do and the nation can move forward much more rapidly.
     
  16. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Yes, we are only interested in caste equations. Now get lost.

    And This is the reason I stopped giving a damn about chaddis and BJP. They think they are some kind of thekadars who everyone, specially Hindu RW owes their support to. This happened with BJP it cell to RW members on internet(twitter) and RW pages on internet and now with the chaddiwallahs online like you.
     
  17. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    You mean moderate like republicans and democrats , who make sure that muzzies are screened everywhere they go and mercilessly butchered to further their agenda be it in afghan, Iraq or Syria?:rolleyes:
     
  18. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    in their 2014 manifesto


    '' the only philosophy and religion of a Government should be India First''

    ''India shall remain a natural home for persecuted Hindus and they shall be welcome to seek refuge here.''

    ''From ancient times almost all religions practiced in different parts of the world, have existed peacefully in India and will continue to do so.''

    '' India constitutes of all its' people, irrespective of caste, creed, religion or sex''



    the only religious statements from what I have read.
     
  19. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    So that pretty much excludes BJP as a right wing party noe doesn't it?:lol:
     
  20. prasadr14

    prasadr14 Regular Member

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    Yeah man..asking Hindus not to think on caste lines is a crime..
    Look at who is abusing whom!!

    You have been calling me names for couple of days and pretend otherwise!!
    Get bent..
     
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  21. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    My point was not just about religion based matters.

    But even on this- do you think they will pass anything to favour persecuted Hindus?
     

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