Does Brahmin Bashing really deserve its due?

warriorextreme

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Brahmins came into the white man's conscious just prior to the 1857 Mutiny (First Indian War of Independence). A huge number of British. Clergy had reached India to convert India into Christain country. It was Brahmin who prevented them, hence their dislike for them. Additional fuel for fire was added by likes of Max Muller, who was hired by British East India company to translate Indian Sanskrit literature into English. He was German by origin but worked for the British East India Company. The idea was to subvert the Indian religion from within. It did not succeed fully. Yes Max Muller did translate Sanskrit literature but became an admirer. His early writings are different from his later life admiration. He became an instructor at Oxford for British Civil Servants who were proceeding to India and his lecture on record admired what he saw in India.

British conscious was spoiled by Muslim intellectuals also. They disliked Brahmin, again they were stumbling block in the complete conversion of India to Muslim for seven hundred years. Brahmin were picked by them for real atrocities. Still they survived and kept the flame of Hinduism burning.

Here even the history was subverted by the British. As the recently arrived clergy were openning schools to train clerks, which were urgently needed, they turned to a Muslim intellectual in 1850 to 1870 in the name of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan. He was a English educated judge and an intellectual, who first the Moghul King Bahadur Shah pampered and then the British liked him and appointed him as judge in Agra. He was given the job of writing history for school text books. He and other Muslim scholars wrote India's history which was to the British liking. Sir Syed ignored the great Indian nation and culture prior to the Muslim conquest. He glorified Muslim rule from 1100AD until the British conquest. That is why Akbar although a callous person is called Akbar the Great. Or blotted out the atrocities of Aurangzeb by calling him a pious man, taxing only to fill the treasury which had been emptied by his builder father. Not a word is said of how he promoted his military generals - by how many temples they destroyed and how many Hindus they converted. Again Brahmin without a sword stood in their way of whole of the nation being converted. That is the history we study even today.

Yes, without Brahmin there would be no Hinduism. He is one bulwark of our culture and heritage. Too bad he did not learn the use of sword.

By the way I am not a Brahmin. I am a Vaisya of trader class.
I am a born to a brahmin father and mother and I disagree with you...Brahmins did not prevent conversions in fact they assisted speedy conversions..to give an example do you know that even eating bread was considered as against hinduism by brahmins and whoever ate bread(pav) was considered adulterated(batlela) in Maharashtra...Even if they found out that a piece of bread was found in a well they would declare whole family as christian and these families had no choice but to accept christianity.

Very handful of brahmins were progessive thinkers and actively started social reforms.

But this is thing of past now, only handful of brahmins remain castists today and most of them have gradually changed themselves to more liberal citizens of India.
 

maomao

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What road block did Brahmin men construct at Haldighati? What sacrifice did Brahminis make at Chittuagarh? I went to both places recently, maybe I missed it, but I did not see any evidence of Brahmin contribution to the survival of Hinduism.

By the way, I am not anti-Brahmin. I admire them for what they did, I.e. memorise and pass down the Vedas and other sacred texts. But please do not put Brahmins on a pedestal. When it came to the crunch moment when they should have united ALL Hindu people against the invaders, they retreated into their own caste comfort zones and failed our people and our faith miserably.
What road block did Brahmins create at Stalingrad or Waterloo? ;)

Fine, coming to the point Have you heard of Chanakya? Mangal Pandety? Tilak, Shastry , Ghokhle? Marathas? Pushmitra Sunga? Mohyal Brahmins? to mention few. From Marathas to Sikhs, Brahmins contributed to the martial race to the core.....Just that you don't know does not make them weak.....Chanakya united all of India against Greeks and Marathas did the same against Mughals!
 
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Rowdy

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No I have a Hindu name... and if you like I will try to be happy that Iran does not have the privilege of being named Mohammed or Peter.

Now how about answering my two specific questions?
:facepalm:

Look my friend ... Iran's original culture was wiped out. The fact that you are not a muzzie / christian is a big feat considering a Millennium of onslaught.

Anyway I hope you know that Brahmin population is about 3% of Indias population .... it was always about 3% ... most of those bashing and harping on brahmins are just lazy morons who have a victim complex similar to muzzies about being discriminated and disadvantaged even with all the reservations .

And to answer your specific questions ... brahmins were always a minority ... maybe you will find a few here and there in the historical records. They never had the kind of power(=population numbers ) to influence directly these battles anyway.
 

Peter

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Are you named mohammed or peter..... if not then be happy because a lot of countries don't have that privilege .. e.g. Iran.
:laugh:

Well Laltopi is a Kshatriya as far as I know. Also the avatar name has nothing to do with original names. My name is Pratik Maitra and I am a Kulin Varendra Brahmin of Kashyap gotra. I agree with the rest of your posts.
 

Peter

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What road block did Brahmin men construct at Haldighati? What sacrifice did Brahminis make at Chittuagarh? I went to both places recently, maybe I missed it, but I did not see any evidence of Brahmin contribution to the survival of Hinduism.

By the way, I am not anti-Brahmin. I admire them for what they did, I.e. memorise and pass down the Vedas and other sacred texts. But please do not put Brahmins on a pedestal. When it came to the crunch moment when they should have united ALL Hindu people against the invaders, they retreated into their own caste comfort zones and failed our people and our faith miserably.
I am not saying that there was caste discrimination by Brahmins. However you cannot start generalizing and say all Brahmins discriminated.

I am sure you have never heard of Sri Chaitanya of Nadia district in West Bengal. I have already mentioned about this great soul in another thread. Shri Chaitanya was born to a Brahmin family yet he treated everyone from the Muslims to the lower castes as part of his family. Long before the term untouchability abolition or Ghar wapsi was even coined Shri Chaitanya started accepting people from all corners of life into his sect. It is because of him a lot of Muslims reconverted back to Hinduism. Some say if not for his teachings the entirety of Bengal population would have been Muslim today. Sadly he was killed by pandas of Puri.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many sects including ISKCON are spreading Hinduism following his teachings.
 

Bangalorean

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No, you are a Muslim and a Pakistanti sympathizer. See what I did there? You can't prove that you're not a Muslim any more than I can. So why waste time on this? Focus on the issue at hand instead of barking about the same old thing again and again. It's getting rather monotonous.
If you say it, you will be laughed out of the room. Practically the entire forum agrees with me, OTOH.

Only a thorough retard will not see through your slimy pretense.
 

Rowdy

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Entha da maaira!
Literal translation :
Tilak ( forehead markings implying brahmins ) , weigh scales ( meaning baniyas / traders ) , and sword ( rajputs ) , beat them with shoes.
 

LalTopi

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What road block did Brahmins create at Stalingrad or Waterloo? ;)

Fine, coming to the point Have you heard of Chanakya? Mangal Pandety? Tilak, Shastry , Ghokhle? Marathas? Pushmitra Sunga? Mohyal Brahmins? to mention few. From Marathas to Sikhs, Brahmins contributed to the martial race to the core.....Just that you don't know does not make them weak.....Chanakya united all of India against Greeks and Marathas did the same against Mughals!
Well answered. There are certainly great individuals in your list. To this list I might also add Hemchandra, Shivaji, and in recent times Sardar Patel, Ambedkhar and even Narendra Modi. These were/are individuals of greatness, regardless of whether they were princes or paupers, bhramins or sudhras. My point being that they were great because of their individual attributes, not their caste/community background.

The reason for my challenge was my annoyance that the debate was getting to a state of either a 'poor-oppressed-brahmins' whinge or a 'brahmins-are-the greatest' posturing. In both these conclusions there is a complete lack of balance over what brahmins did that was great and where they failed. My personal view is that the brahmin community:

1) Ensured that over a 4000 year or longer period the Vedas were passed down, and pretty much intact it would seem. This is not just a great achievement, it is one of the greatest achievements in recorded history. Yes, there are instances of tampering to promote ones own caste - e.g. the Manusmrti I would say, but that is a separate argument that should not detract from the overall achievement.
2) Generally from my own dealings with the brahmin community (I do not live in India) I would agree that in the current age brahmins are perhaps the least castist, and are generally progressive . The worst cases of castism as has already been pointed out seems to be from OBCs to the Dalits. It is a sad reflection on human nature that the downtrodden seem to take greater pleasure in treading on those below them, than in trying to improve the overall lot of everone.
3) Back, to the times of Chitoghar, Haldighati etc. I would say that the biggest failure in the brahmins - as teachers and keepers of the faith - was that they completely failed to mobilize the population as a whole to resist the invaders, receding instead to raising caste barriers when they should have been breaking them down. This was not something outside of their remit, but should have been an inherent duty of their role. On this aspect, although I can trace my ancestry to the Rajputs (hence my trip to these places) and my admiration of their bravery, I am critical that they seemed to spend more time fighting each other than the invaders and again, because of caste divisions, sponged off the general population instead of mobilizing them, unlike the muslim invaders who mobilized all their masses.

In summary, there are certainly individuals who were great and happened to be brahmin, and the brahmin caste can justifiably claim some amazing achievements However, it would be complete arrogance to ignore the shortcomings.
 
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LalTopi

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Yes indeed I have heard of Sri Chaitanya, although only in passing in learning about the ISKON movement.
On the subject of great brahmin individuals I was surprised that the name of Mohandas K Ghandhi never cropped up, I would say on the list of greatness he should be top, or near the top.
Although it grates I also would not begrudge that Nehru and Indira Gandhi had their moments of great achievement.
 

warrior monk

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A lesson in sociology
Brahmins are unfairly blamed because Brahmins are not truly top of the hierarchy in India they never were , actually the whole varna ashrama dharma was manipulated by Hindu kings and Muslim kings and later by the British. See the truth is each state or region in India has a top caste in my state non brahmin caste are at the top of the food chain brahmins are not denigrated but only respected similarly in most other states and region their are non brahmin castes at the top , brahmins are respected but never in power actually they never were.
The manipulation in Hinduism caste system started by the Muslim invaders who were not smart but they knew they had to slaughter the priestly class in Hinduism to be able to convert . In chanakya neeti the principle job of a king is to maintain dharma but what happens when the kings are Muslims . The muslim Kings kept self serving Hindu sychophant kings with themselves who ruined hinduism.
There are many instances when a hindu king is conducting yagya and doesn't have enough Brahmins to conduct the yagya would convert his sycophants as Brahmins actually most if not all brahmins are decendents of those people.
lets remember what macaulay said

"I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation."
quote from Lord Macaulay's speech in the British Parliament on 2nd February 1835.

This was India after 500 years of muslim barbarian Invasion still more prosperous than europe at that time. Islamic invasion are the sole cause of downfall of India and then the marxist historians needed a scapegoat to blame so they put the blame on Brahmins and naive Indians went on with it.
 

Mad Indian

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Where is the sagacity of @Mad Indian to 'educate' all?
Another one of your classic dishonesty I presume?:rofl:

See, unlike you, I am neither an anti Brahmin bigot, nor am I a castist.

To non-bigot Upper castes, yeah, I agree that whatever happened in the past should remain in the past. Time to move forward under an united Hindu umbrella outside the caste dogmas. We Hindus have been blaming and fighting each other for far too long and have enabled anti national forces to win everytime. Time for that to end, even the anti upper caste biases.

TO upper caste bigots like @Ray- cry me a river.
 
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Mad Indian

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In today's India, the maximum caste discrimination is practiced by the so-called OBCs, against the SC/STs. Brahmin discrimination is hardly noticeable anymore.
What you say is true regarding the mainstream society. But when it comes to institutionalised discrimination- Brahmins still do the maximum discrimination. OBCs are nowhere near enough in the institutions to be able to do that. To understand my point, you need to look at the composition of the bureaucracy at top level .
 

Mad Indian

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I have been hearing nonsense on reservations here for a long time now. SO lets end this supposedly "unfair" disadvantage imposed on the upper castes. Lets have a proportionate representation in bureaucracies in all levels of bureaucracy from top down- so that upper castes also get reservations. They dont need to compete with 80% of the population for the 50% open seats. They can get their own 20%(if thats their numbers)

So how many of the upper castes here agree to that? Lets see how many closet caste bigots DFI has:hmm:.

Generally from my own dealings with the brahmin community (I do not live in India) I would agree that in the current age brahmins are perhaps the least castist, and are generally progressive . The worst cases of castism as has already been pointed out seems to be from OBCs to the Dalits. It is a sad reflection on human nature that the downtrodden seem to take greater pleasure in treading on those below them, than in trying to improve the overall lot of everone.
@LalTopi

You think there is no caste discrimination by Brahmins?
 
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Rowdy

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I have been hearing nonsense on reservations here for a long time now. SO lets end this supposedly "unfair" disadvantage imposed on the upper castes. Lets have a proportionate representation in bureaucracies in all levels of bureaucracy from top down- so that upper castes also get reservations. They dont need to compete with 80% of the population for the 50% open seats. They can get their own 20%(if thats their numbers)

So how many of the upper castes here agree to that? Lets see how many closet caste bigots DFI has:hmm:.


@LalTopi

You think there is no caste discrimination by Brahmins?
The total brahmin population in India is about 4-6% .... yup ... that's how much they are .... :lol:

if we implement this idea of representation ... brahmins will all but disappear from the bureaucracy .... more lazy people getting something for doing nothing .... lol This was already tried in Tamilnadu with the anti - brahmin movement ... the brahmins moved to mumbai and then US :D ..... if you do this you won't see a squeak on the dharna front ... everyone will just move out ... except those who want to be priests and the like.
 
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